Basement floor options

[branimal]

I'm getting ready to refinish my basement. It's about 750sq ft - no walls aside from a half bath. The floors are currently 18x18" tile with a lot of lippage.

My initial thot was to hire contractors to pour self leveler over the tile and then install LVP. I could also tile over it. It would be a bear of a job.

The basement is being used mostly for storage. Since I'm redo'ing the perimeter framing and ceilings, might as well do the floors.

What do you you guys think?

 

[Fav Onefour]

What type of tile do you have?
Sounds like you are talking about tile edges rolling up to create lippage?

It would be tough to do a leveler that holds up on tile that has voids under the edges.

Maybe narrow down the advice with some more specifics.

 

[branimal]

I think the tile is ceramic. The tiles feels firmly bonded. But it's possible there are voids. I'm not really sure.

The bathroom and the area where an oil tank used to sit are just slab - no tile. Also the basement was split into rooms by a prior owner, so there are voids for the metal stud tracks. See pics.

Another consideration is I'm going to have lots of tools and supplies down there on rolling shelves/carts/tool chests. I'm not sure LVP can support that without denting, buckling or undoing the locking mechanism. I'm still in the exploratory phase of the correct flooring for the basement.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Uffda, you have some work ahead.

You can tap test the tile for voids.

Leaving the existing tile and using leveler will be a challenge for a number of reasons.
The lift would require a couple leveler passes because of the old wall voids. It's possible, but I bet a contractor would try to do it in one shot to make it easier.
Leveler would require a good cleaning before application. It should really be done with a bonding agent as well. I'm still not sure how well it will bond with the current tile.
Leveler alone, is generally a fairly soft substrate against scratching and gouging. Once the leveler cures, it needs to be covered with your final flooring. That puts your project into a sequential timeline.

Will the final build be mainly one room?
In that case, take your slick Bosch hammer and chip out the tile where you are doing the outer walls. Build your walls with some kind of decent vapor water barrier against the foundation. (The current walls won't do well with wood and porous building materials.)
Plan on doing the mechanicals before finishing the ceiling.

After all that is done, focus on the new flooring.
Prep is based on your flooring choice. Truthfully, the best prep would be completely removing the tile and doing a grind to get it flat. That's a time consuming project just to get it right. It does offer some advantages about flooring choice. Who knows, maybe the concrete looks fantastic and you end up doing a topcoat?

LVP is an option if you do excellent flat prep and use a decent flooring product. Have you checked relative flatness of the concrete sublfoor? You can get an idea even with tile on top. I don't see anything currently in the space that would cause buckling. I've rolled big fridges with their little rollers across LVP quite often. The key is a perfectly flat subfloor. Cheap LVP and thick padding will compress and dent, so shop around if you go that route. In most cases the LVP fails because the subfloor is not flat.

You mentioned tile as a possible option. If you are thinking about that route, try rolling your tool boxes etc around on the current tile. Drop a couple hammers and chisels on the tile. The results will give you and idea of how the floor may suit your needs. Tile is great until it's not. I go nuts when I see chipped tile on a nice looking floor.

 

[branimal]

Thank you for the detailed response.

The basement will be one large area + a powder room.

Will protecting a self leveled floor with RAM board or 1/8" hardboard suffice?

If I decide pour leveler over the tile, I will have a the contractor grind down the tile surface and apply leveler primer. I'll fill the voids (bathroom, oil tank area, stud track grooves) with sand topping mix myself.

I agree - I'd prefer an LVP finished floor vs tile.

 

[Fav Onefour]

If you are already thinking about grinding tile, I'd just get rid of the tile and go straight to concrete. Keeping the tile would be a lot of work. Getting rid of it would be a little more. IMHO, the end result is worth the little bit of extra effort.

 

[billconner]

I think I'd be looking at 10 mil poly, 1x4 sleepers foam between, and advantech. Just my thought.

 

[Fav Onefour]

I think I'd be looking at 10 mil poly, 1x4 sleepers foam between, and advantech. Just my thought.

That would be a quick and easy approach. The sleepers could be done with tight spacing so you would eliminate flex from rolling tool boxes.

@branimal , How much headroom do you have? That method would raise the floor a fair amount. Each entry point would have a hefty lip.

 

[billconner]

That would be a quick and easy approach. The sleepers could be done with tight spacing so you would eliminate flex from rolling tool boxes.

@branimal , How much headroom do you have? That method would raise the floor a fair amount. Each entry point would have a hefty lip.

1 1/2" is what I was suggesting. Can you pour leveler much thinner?

 

[duneslider]

My first suggestion would be to tear it all out. It is some hard work. There are companies that specialize in this and you might find the price isn't that bad for what it is and their machines make quick work of it. I am not sure the going rate for companies to come in an do self leveler over the whole area you have but I am willing to be it won't be cheap and paying for demo might be cheaper.

Not sure what exactly your plans are with the space but maybe tearing out the tile and grinding down the concrete and an epoxy or sealer would be a better way to go.

 

[zendriver]

Personally I would not use concrete based leveler on anything but bare, clean, exposed concrete.

I see plenty of ads for types of epoxy type products. I'm considering them for my basement floor, but I'll still grind wond to exposed concrete, to ensure proper uniform bonding.

 

[branimal]

I've gotten some quotes to redo the floor... (720sq ft***); The basement is going to be used for tool / supply storage, and maybe some occasional projects.

-$5000 - $6500 to patch low spots and pour self leveler. Flat floor.
- $9500 to rip out the tile and the existing 2" slab, compact the dirt down and pour 4" of concrete. Level floor. Good for a lifetime (definitely my lifetime).

If I went with 4" of concrete I'd need to undercut the basement outside door. I'm ripping out the staircase from the 1st floor and rebuilding it. So no staircase issue.

I'm going to run a little test out of curiosity. Use a laser, find the lowest spot on the tile. Scarify the tile with a grinder, prime it and pour a bag of self leveler on it.

I think I'd be looking at 10 mil poly, 1x4 sleepers foam between, and advantech. Just my thought.

When you say 1x4 sleepers are referring to pressure treated lumber glued to the tile? Interesting idea - in the off chance we get a Superstorm Sandy type storm and the basement gets water, how will the advantech hold up?

I've gotten the 3 floors above perfectly level cutting sleeper shims on the table saw and laying down advantech. It was a lot of work, but it's nice having a level deck to work with.

Self leveler can be poured to a feathers edge. Allegedly.

@branimal , How much headroom do you have?

88" give or take. It's not going to be a living space so raising the floor by 1 1/2" is not a deal killer. Technically by NYC code, its a cellar not a basement.

I'd just get rid of the tile and go straight to concrete.

Agreed - It's not going to be easy. I tried chipping a section out with the bosch hammer. The attachment keeps getting stuck under the tile. Maybe. that's a good sign - strong adhesion. What I can say is that none of tile that I've pulled up is back-buttered.

 

[billconner]

When you say 1x4 sleepers are referring to pressure treated lumber glued to the tile? Interesting idea - in the off chance we get a Superstorm Sandy type storm and the basement gets water, how will the advantech hold up?

With the poly doesn't have to be PT but can be. If anchor through tile, not glue.

If your basement flooding is probable, this is not the way I'd go. But I know a lot of builders who do concrete free slabs - double layer of advantech on top of base, insulation, and vapor barrier in new builds, and swear by it.

If you can afford the new 4" slab, probably best. Min 10 mil vapor barrier and consider rigid foam insulation.

 

[branimal]

I think I'm going to do a new 4" slab. I see in my boiler room there is a little concrete ledge going all the way around. Is that something I should ask for on the new pour?

Also I have 4 lally columns in the new pour area. Does anything special need to be done to accommodate these?

What other questions should I ask the contractor? I believe every contractor was quoting me 4000 PSI concrete.

 

[billconner]

You need a good size footing under the lally columns. And a way to support the load while pouring footing.