Basement Subpanel Quick Questions

[kf4zht]

Since my plans for an outside shop met the reality of budget vs time in this house I am building out a small shop in my basement for the machine shop.

Plan is to run a sub panel to the room, surface mounted with conduit running around the room to the various equipment. Done this before and it make it easy for changes, plus I can easily pull everything out in 3-4 years when we move and use at the new place.

Loads going on the subpanel:
Lathe - 220v 20a
Mill - 110v 20a dedicated
Compressor - 110v 30a dedicated (outside but on this panel)
Welder - Probably going with 220v 50a. It will draw 108 amps at full, but I never even hit 50% capacity, I would melt my tig torch first
2-3 110v 20a general breakers

Questions:
House has an Eaton BR panel. Probably going to stay the same for limiting breaker models. HD doesn't carry Eaton in store, but I know some breakers are compatible, will BR breakers fit in any of the panels they sell in house (GE, QD, etc)?

Supply Wiring - I want at least 70 amp to the panel, up to around 100amp. Wiring will need to be pulled through exposed studs and needs to route out the bottom, through the stud and back up due to panel space. What is the best choice wire for this amperage range for ease of pulling and is fairly available?

3 or 4 wire Supply? I can't keep track of the rules on bonded neutral vs seperate on subpanels and attached vs detached, etc.

 

[Stuff]

Breakers may physically fit but not allowed by code to put them in different panels. There are exceptions but not for what you are doing.

Need 4 wire - separate neutral and ground.

What is the distance? 4 gauge copper SER will get you 90 amps

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Since my plans for an outside shop met the reality of budget vs time in this house I am building out a small shop in my basement for the machine shop.

Plan is to run a sub panel to the room, surface mounted with conduit running around the room to the various equipment. Done this before and it make it easy for changes, plus I can easily pull everything out in 3-4 years when we move and use at the new place.

Loads going on the subpanel:
Lathe - 220v 20a
Mill - 110v 20a dedicated
Compressor - 110v 30a dedicated (outside but on this panel)
Welder - Probably going with 220v 50a. It will draw 108 amps at full, but I never even hit 50% capacity, I would melt my tig torch first
2-3 110v 20a general breakers

Is this a one man operation?

If so, then your concurrent loads will be minimal.

I would go with 240v compressor too...

Questions:
House has an Eaton BR panel. Probably going to stay the same for limiting breaker models. HD doesn't carry Eaton in store, but I know some breakers are compatible, will BR breakers fit in any of the panels they sell in house (GE, QD, etc)?

Eaton BR is garbage and it was garbage before Eaton acquired the line form westinghouse.

Heres the classification chart that tells you which BR breakers are classified for which OEM breakers:

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@electrical/documents/content/sa00304001e.pdf

Supply Wiring - I want at least 70 amp to the panel, up to around 100amp. Wiring will need to be pulled through exposed studs and needs to route out the bottom, through the stud and back up due to panel space. What is the best choice wire for this amperage range for ease of pulling and is fairly available?

Your best bet would be #2 al SER for that install. Its limited to 90a but as long as youre a one man operation you should be fine...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...Gray-Stranded-AL-SER-Cable-13102999/205001908

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/2-4-aluminum-ser-cable-w-4awg-ground.html

3 or 4 wire Supply? I can't keep track of the rules on bonded neutral vs separate on subpanels and attached vs detached, etc.

4-wire is required. All new subpanels are required to be 4-wire with isolated neutral and separate ground bus, regardless if its in an attached or detached building.

The only difference between the 2 types of buildings is detached requires grounding electrodes.

Theres a really good wiring diagram on the Electrical FAQs sticky:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356460

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Breakers may physically fit but not allowed by code to put them in different panels. There are exceptions but not for what you are doing.

Need 4 wire - separate neutral and ground.

What is the distance? 4 gauge copper SER will get you 90 amps

BR breakers are classified for use in certain panels. See chart link above...

 

[kf4zht]

Is this a one man operation?

If so, then your concurrent loads will be minimal.

I would go with 240v compressor too...



Eaton BR is garbage and it was garbage before Eaton acquired the line form westinghouse.

Heres the classification chart that tells you which BR breakers are classified for which OEM breakers:

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@electrical/documents/content/sa00304001e.pdf



Your best bet would be #2 al SER for that install. Its limited to 90a but as long as youre a one man operation you should be fine...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...Gray-Stranded-AL-SER-Cable-13102999/205001908

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/2-4-aluminum-ser-cable-w-4awg-ground.html




4-wire is required. All new subpanels are required to be 4-wire with isolated neutral and separate ground bus, regardless if its in an attached or detached building.

The only difference between the 2 types of buildings is detached requires grounding electrodes.

Theres a really good wiring diagram on the Electrical FAQs sticky:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356460

I meant 240v on the compressor, its already wired that way already.

Good to know on the Eaton panels. I will check that link to see what other panels I can use without reinventing the wheel. Checked my box and have about every brand of breaker, but only 1-2. Not enough to sway it one way or another

90a should be fine. It is a one man shop, with the physical size it's going to be limited by space. My main goal is if I am welding near 170-200 amp range and the compressor kicks on I won't blow the panel breaker and be stuck in the dark with hot metal around me. Other would be if I am running the Lathe/mill and happen to have a buddy running the other when the compressor kicks.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I meant 240v on the compressor, its already wired that way already.

Good to know on the Eaton panels. I will check that link to see what other panels I can use without reinventing the wheel. Checked my box and have about every brand of breaker, but only 1-2. Not enough to sway it one way or another

You have several different brands of breakers in the Eaton BR panel?

Thats a no no. Can you post a pic of the panel with the cover on and off?

90a should be fine. It is a one man shop, with the physical size it's going to be limited by space. My main goal is if I am welding near 170-200 amp range and the compressor kicks on I won't blow the panel breaker and be stuck in the dark with hot metal around me. Other would be if I am running the Lathe/mill and happen to have a buddy running the other when the compressor kicks.

Since its attached, you could put the light circuit(s) on a different panel, that way if you trip the main feeding the new sub, youre not stuck in the dark.

 

[Stuff]

Heres the classification chart that tells you which BR breakers are classified for which OEM breakers:

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@electrical/documents/content/sa00304001e.pdf

That is for Eaton CL breakers which are labeled differently from the BR even though they appear to be physically the same.

 

[kf4zht]

You have several different brands of breakers in the Eaton BR panel?

Thats a no no. Can you post a pic of the panel with the cover on and off?



Since its attached, you could put the light circuit(s) on a different panel, that way if you trip the main feeding the new sub, youre not stuck in the dark.

Box as in cardboard storage container holding random bit of electrical related junk


On thinking about it, I'm going to run the lights off the main panel. That way when I move out and steal the panel and such the next owner won't be left with a useless room.

 

[Norcal]

Box as in cardboard storage container holding random bit of electrical related junk


On thinking about it, I'm going to run the lights off the main panel. That way when I move out and steal the panel and such the next owner won't be left with a useless room.

Why even mess with a garbage panel? Leave it & get a decent panel, although using a BR panel when the existing panel is a BR is a sound choice, I call the BR "Zinsco II" because they are garbage, & BR panels used to use Zinsco mains in some models. Zinsco is one of the 2 most reviled makes of panel, the other is FPE.