I want to melt snow on a sidewalk, manual control only. My plan is to upsize the elec. water heater to a 65 gallon, it is only used for two hand sinks. Then circ. water thru a plate heat exchanger. My 4 1/2" pex loops would then go to a manifold and another circ pump. Trying to keep this as simple as possible. I guess I need a cold water feed going thru a backflow that would add makeup water? Then a air eliminatior and a port or some way to add glycol?
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Basic sidewalk snowmelt system
- Thread starter Scott r c
- Start date
stokefire7
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2011
- Messages
- 616
If I remember right you could do away with fill and backflow and opt for hose bibs on you supply and return. Just pump it in. Don't forget an expansion tank.
James-W
Well-known member
I take it you want to use hot water running thru pipes in order to warm the sidewalk to keep the snow melted. That is certainly possible, but it would require quite a bit of heat. Depending on what you are using for heat, it could get a bit expensive.
dmcintosh
Well-known member
I was thinking this would be a great application for geothermal heat. Would potentially eliminate all but the pumping cost.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I was thinking this would be a great application for geothermal heat. Would potentially eliminate all but the pumping cost.
True, but slow.
Don't think this will be effective, the pipe would freeze and plug up before you think of turning on the hot water. you can bury it below your freeze line then it's not effective.
Electric one maybe if you can afford the electric bill or a steam one. Not even sure if your concrete would last from the constant heat/cold expansion.
Electric one maybe if you can afford the electric bill or a steam one. Not even sure if your concrete would last from the constant heat/cold expansion.
Super Mech
Well-known member
My BIL has a system like this at his house. Does the driveway(fairly large)and the walkways to the front door(also rather large). He has 7 boilers in the house, 3 are for his inside radiant heat and the others are for the outside heating. All gas fired. His basement looks like a cruise ship engine room!
From what I've seen, it's only good for light to medium snowfalls that don't pile up quickly. He has to turn it on well before the snow flies to start to warm the ground. When it does snow I have to hear how high his gas bill is! I'm like WTF turn it off and get outside and shovel you rich lazy *******!
If I'm not mistaken, I think last year he had a gas bill of over 2000.00 for one month. But we had a really bad winter.
From what I've seen, it's only good for light to medium snowfalls that don't pile up quickly. He has to turn it on well before the snow flies to start to warm the ground. When it does snow I have to hear how high his gas bill is! I'm like WTF turn it off and get outside and shovel you rich lazy *******!
If I'm not mistaken, I think last year he had a gas bill of over 2000.00 for one month. But we had a really bad winter.
sands35
Well-known member
2 grand? It would be cheeper to hire a plow service.
Super Mech
Well-known member
He's got plenty of money. His house is huge. But he will cry anyway. If he hired a plow crew that would take the wow factor out of his muti boiler steam ship sidewalk snow melting contraption.
I had looked into a system with our new construction and the issue's where.. the BTU required to melt, turning the zones on /off during the winter and allowing the frost to come in and drive it out again as well as where does the water go when its melting.
Nothing cracks cement like the frost coming out and going in.
Purchased a Husqvarna 580BTS backpack blower and a Toro snow thrower ...
Nothing cracks cement like the frost coming out and going in.
Purchased a Husqvarna 580BTS backpack blower and a Toro snow thrower ...
Melting snow requires huge BTU numbers ... continuously ... A hot water heater is not going to do it.
I have seen a few modern ones and my grandparents had one for their driveway -- the boilers were larger than those for the house. Definitely .. if you have to ask .. you can't afford it.
I have seen a few modern ones and my grandparents had one for their driveway -- the boilers were larger than those for the house. Definitely .. if you have to ask .. you can't afford it.
anthony666
Well-known member
I want to melt snow on a sidewalk, manual control only. My plan is to upsize the elec. water heater to a 65 gallon, it is only used for two hand sinks. Then circ. water thru a plate heat exchanger. My 4 1/2" pex loops would then go to a manifold and another circ pump. Trying to keep this as simple as possible. I guess I need a cold water feed going thru a backflow that would add makeup water? Then a air eliminatior and a port or some way to add glycol?
when you design a snow melt system you use the formula of 80-100btus per square foot of driveway/walkway .. and that's a system that idles a few degrees above freezing when its not in full snow melt mode .. if you're gonna go from ambient to snow melt i'd double that btu input
check out the output of your 65 gallon water heater .. off the top of my head i'd imagine 30 to 50k btu's per hour going full tilt .. that gives you 300 to 500 sq feet if you had an automated system that idles the slab, half that if its manual controls
that target input figure is based to turning the water to vapor so it will be blown away from the snowmelt area .. you dont want to just turn the snow to water unless theres a clear path for it to drain away COMPLETELY, remember water wont go very fair before it cools, pools and turns to ice .. i have seen a lot of poorly engineered snow melt systems that clear the snow off a driveway, but leave a skating rink out on the road
6768rogues
Banned
I worked for the county government and they had ice melt systems and then for a public school district and two schools had them. They work very well and do not use a lot of energy. They keep the sidewalk just above freezing and in our western NY climate that is only a few to maybe 30 degrees warmer than outdoor temps for most of the winter.
The school used boiler water that warmed a heat exchanger for the ice melt systems that used glycol. The ice melt piping was cast into the concrete sidewalks and steps and there was extruded polystyrene foam below the sidewalks to limit heat transfer to the ground. It worked very well, not much energy was used and there was never a flake of snow on the surfaces. Compared to paying the staff to shovel and salt, especially considering the damage done to concrete by salt, and it was a money saver. Also, when thousands of students arrived in the morning, by the time they walked over the heated sidewalk and up the heated stairway to the main entrance, their shoes were fairly clean. That lowered custodial costs and reduced wear and tear on the floors. The ice melt systems were one of the best things I ever installed at the school.
My son put piping in his sidewalk from his house to this garage, but has not bought the equipment to finish the installation.
The school used boiler water that warmed a heat exchanger for the ice melt systems that used glycol. The ice melt piping was cast into the concrete sidewalks and steps and there was extruded polystyrene foam below the sidewalks to limit heat transfer to the ground. It worked very well, not much energy was used and there was never a flake of snow on the surfaces. Compared to paying the staff to shovel and salt, especially considering the damage done to concrete by salt, and it was a money saver. Also, when thousands of students arrived in the morning, by the time they walked over the heated sidewalk and up the heated stairway to the main entrance, their shoes were fairly clean. That lowered custodial costs and reduced wear and tear on the floors. The ice melt systems were one of the best things I ever installed at the school.
My son put piping in his sidewalk from his house to this garage, but has not bought the equipment to finish the installation.
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