bathroom circuits question

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

Doing some of the wiring for my garage with a 1/2 bath. I will have a 7 gallon water heater on a dedicated 20A circuit and the bathroom will have 1 20A GFCI outlet (all outlets in garage will be GFCI protected).
So my question is does the single 1/2 bath outlet need to be on a dedicated circuit also?
Then the two lights in the 1/2 bath, overhead and vanity on a single switch, can they be on the same circuit as that single 20A outlet? I think not but want to be sure.
If I can't share the half bath outlet for the lights (and possibly fan), can those be on the same circuit as the some of my garage wall outlets?

I ask because my panel is on the opposite side of the garage so every run to the panel is at least 50 feet (30ft deep garage, panel on front wall and 1/2 bath on back wall in corner). Don't want to waste wire if I don't have to.

Thanks!

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

For a half bathroom, I would do a 15 amp GFCI and put the lights and fan on with the GFCI. That's what I would do if it was my shop.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I'm not sure what your local building code allows... I looked into this, we need a GFCI 20 amp circuit for the outlet, and separate circuits for lighting and a heater. I could tie them in to existing wiring (ie as long as it's GFCI I could use an outlet run in the shop in the bathroom, and tie the lighting circuit into the shop light circuit) but we can't combine them...

Also, our electric HW heater is 220... that's its own circuit as well...

 

[jpcjguy]

Ok - so I should ask my AHJ on the details on the bathroom wiring.

I will reach out to them monday morning. Thanks!

 

[alfredeneuman]

For a half bathroom, I would do a 15 amp GFCI and put the lights and fan on with the GFCI.

A dedicated 20A circuit is required in the US. Lights and fans are allowed to be on the same circuit.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

A dedicated 20A circuit is required in the US. Lights and fans are allowed to be on the same circuit.

Ah, interesting, especially for a powder room/half bath...

Thanks for letting me know this weird code.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ah, interesting, especially for a powder room/half bath...

Thanks for letting me know this weird code.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

Not weird at all. Look at the wattage of some blow dryers.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

Not weird at all. Look at the wattage of some blow dryers.

1875 watts, I know... I had this discussion with my brother a few months ago. Here we can wire multiple bathroom receptacles on one circuit, but I prefer a dedicated for each one...

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[Bert_]

I don't think a half bath qualifies as a bathroom in the code. That means there would not be a 20 amp required circuit.

I'll check but I'm pretty sure it needs to have three fixtures to qualify as a bathroom.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I don't think a half bath qualifies as a bathroom in the code. That means there would not be a 20 amp required circuit.

I'll check but I'm pretty sure it needs to have three fixtures to qualify as a bathroom.

Article 100 - Definitions
Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a urinal, a tub, a shower, a bidet, or similar plumbing fixtures.

 

[Terry D]

1875 watts, I know... I had this discussion with my brother a few months ago. Here we can wire multiple bathroom receptacles on one circuit, but I prefer a dedicated for each one...

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

We can also wire multiple bathroom receptacles on the same 20 amp circuit, not any lights or fans. But if you were going to just run one circuit for one new bathroom, it has to be a dedicated 20 amp. Lights and fan can be on this

 

[u2slow]

IMHO, wouldn't waste the wire. Its a shop bathroom.

- put the bathroom plug on a 20A shop plug circuit, but use a GFCI in that location.

- share the lighting & fan with a shop lighting circuit.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

We can also wire multiple bathroom receptacles on the same 20 amp circuit, not any lights or fans. But if you were going to just run one circuit for one new bathroom, it has to be a dedicated 20 amp

See, thats something that doesn't make any sense to me. When we wire a home here in [emoji1063] we can put the lights on with the receptacle... of course, if its a large bathroom with large lights, we will do a separate circuit for the lights...

But putting multiple bathrooms on one circuit is permitted, but you can't take 1 exhaust fan and a couple of lights off that circuit? It just doesn't make sense to me...

Of course, it doesn't have to make sense, I just do what code says I have to, so if I can't, I can't.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[Terry D]

See, thats something that doesn't make any sense to me. When we wire a home here in [emoji1063] we can put the lights on with the receptacle... of course, if its a large bathroom with large lights, we will do a separate circuit for the lights...

But putting multiple bathrooms on one circuit is permitted, but you can't take 1 exhaust fan and a couple of lights off that circuit? It just doesn't make sense to me...

Of course, it doesn't have to make sense, I just do what code says I have to, so if I can't, I can't.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

I know, with todays hair dryers, curling irons etc. I defiantly do a dedicated circuit for the master bath GFCI(s) and a lot of times the other baths GFCI's also, especially if there are a lot of girls in the house.

 

[Bert_]

Article 100 - Definitions
Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a urinal, a tub, a shower, a bidet, or similar plumbing fixtures.

Correct.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks everyone for the info. I also talked with a local electrician and he said I can run lights, fan, bath outlet (GFCI) on the same circuit as some of the shop outlets. He stated that since it is a garage not a residence ( no bedroom) I can share circuits.
Is this an accurate assumption?

 

[jpcjguy]

To clarify, I will bring 20A power to the Outlet next to the bathroom and split power. GFCI in that outlet and down the shop wall and then run power to the bathroom outlet (GFCI) and branch from there to the lights and fan

 

[alfredeneuman]

T He stated that since it is a garage not a residence ( no bedroom) I can share circuits.
Is this an accurate assumption?

Studio apartments don't have a separate bedroom and they're still considered a residence

 

[yatg]

Thanks everyone for the info. I also talked with a local electrician and he said I can run lights, fan, bath outlet (GFCI) on the same circuit as some of the shop outlets. He stated that since it is a garage not a residence ( no bedroom) I can share circuits.
Is this an accurate assumption?

I believe it is, if your shop is detached.
NEC 2017 210.11(C)(3) is Bathroom Branch Circuits.
but everything under (C) only applies to "Dwelling Units".

Unless you want to argue code semantics with the inspector, just pull another 12/2 to serve the entire bathroom per the exception in 210.11(C)(3)
"Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom,
outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted
to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2)."

 

[alfredeneuman]

I believe it is, if your shop is detached.
NEC 2017 210.11(C)(3) is Bathroom Branch Circuits.
but everything under (C) only applies to "Dwelling Units".

VA isn't on the 2017 NEC yet. (It's in the process) No previous Editions have that

 

[yatg]

VA isn't on the 2017 NEC yet. (It's in the process) No previous Editions have that

"that" meaning what?
The dwelling bathroom circuit receptacle rule or the exception?
I see both as far back as 1999, don't have anything earlier than that.
What does your version say?

NEC 1999 210-11 Branch Circuits Required
(c) Dwelling Units
(1) Small-Appliance Branch Circuits
(2) Laundry Branch Circuits
(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits.
In addition to the num-
ber of branch circuits required by other parts of this section,
at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.

Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bath-
room shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with
Section 210-23(a).

 

[jpcjguy]

Talked to my local inspector today and he said I can run everything in the bathroom (lights, single outlet and fart fan) off a shared line on the back wall!
Of course I did not plan for the fart fan, so have to figure that out and vent through the roof...sigh...

 

[sparky 1971]

Talked to my local inspector today and he said I can run everything in the bathroom (lights, single outlet and fart fan) off a shared line on the back wall!
Of course I did not plan for the fart fan, so have to figure that out and vent through the roof...sigh...

It's been a long time ago, but when I did a lot of new residential, we were able to put a ventless fan in a bath as long as there wan't a shower or tub in it. I can only remember doing it a few times, and I believe that every time it was a half bath under a stair case and there wasn't really a way to get a vent out. This may be something to check out.

 

[jpcjguy]

Ended up getting a fan at Lowes and installed it - was not that bad actually and the 3" line fit inside the 2x4 spacing I have between the wood top and the inside drywall - whew!

 

[dscheidt]

See, thats something that doesn't make any sense to me. When we wire a home here in [emoji1063] we can put the lights on with the receptacle... of course, if its a large bathroom with large lights, we will do a separate circuit for the lights...

But putting multiple bathrooms on one circuit is permitted, but you can't take 1 exhaust fan and a couple of lights off that circuit? It just doesn't make sense to me...

Of course, it doesn't have to make sense, I just do what code says I have to, so if I can't, I can't.

The reasoning for that is pretty clear. If you have two or more bathrooms sharing a circuit, something done in the other bathroom could trip the breaker. That leaves the person in the shower in the other bathroom in the dark. That's less likely in a single bathroom.

 

[Terry D]

The reasoning for that is pretty clear. If you have two or more bathrooms sharing a circuit, something done in the other bathroom could trip the breaker. That leaves the person in the shower in the other bathroom in the dark. That's less likely in a single bathroom.

When they are talking about the bathrooms sharing a circuit, they are talking about sharing the circuit just for the receptacle outlets. When you do this, nothing else can be on that circuit except the receptacle outlets, no lighting, exhaust fans, etc. So it really wouldn't be a concern if you would trip the circuit for the receptacle in one and lose lights in another.

 

[jpcjguy]

When they are talking about the bathrooms sharing a circuit, they are talking about sharing the circuit just for the receptacle outlets. When you do this, nothing else can be on that circuit except the receptacle outlets, no lighting, exhaust fans, etc. So it really wouldn't be a concern if you would trip the circuit for the receptacle in one and lose lights in another.

I am glad that my inspector is allowing me to share the bathroom outlet, fan and light in the bathroom with the power for the back wall outlets. Saves me 50ish feet of wire!

 

[dscheidt]

When they are talking about the bathrooms sharing a circuit, they are talking about sharing the circuit just for the receptacle outlets. When you do this, nothing else can be on that circuit except the receptacle outlets, no lighting, exhaust fans, etc. So it really wouldn't be a concern if you would trip the circuit for the receptacle in one and lose lights in another.

Yes. That's why the lghts have to be on a seperate circuit, if you share the receptacle circuit between bathrooms, and why it's okay to mix them in a single bathroom.