Battery Backup Sump Pumps

[duwem]

Sorry, this is house related not garage, but I don't want to join yet another forum so here it is.

Had an incident this year where the float hung up on our electric sump pump and flooded the basement (not bad, but 2" of water is enough to saturate the carpet and weep up all the drywall walls and anything sitting on the carpet.

Talked to a few plumbers about battery backup and got some different recommendations.

This was one:

https://www.stopflooding.com/phcc-pro-series-2400/

Kind of sounds like it runs on 120v till the power goes out, then runs on 12. but maybe it just uses the power invertor to take the 120 to 12v. That feature would be nice vs one that just runs on battery, that way if primary 120v pump fails for other than power outage. this one would run on 120 for a while and not **** the battery down.

This is the other one:

https://www.zoellerpumps.com/en-na/products/back-up/battery-powered/aquanot-508

It kind of ties into the primary pump with plumbing, there was one or 2 complaints about the coupling being a weak point.

Both pumbers mentioned there was the option to upgrade to a gell cell battery vs lead acid. I have read about people having to top off the lead acid batteries once in a while to keep them alive, would pay extra to not have to deal with that especially if the gell cell will last longer.

I'm not tech savvy, but some have Wi-Fi options and cell/email alerts. I guess my simple mind says if the power goes out, then the Wi-Fi router is out and it wont work?


Thoughts?
Thanks

 

[Fixed]

I don't have any useful advice to offer about pumps, but one thing I did was throw a water alarm in my sump area.

That way if the pit does start overflowing, it'll go off and (hopefully) someone will hear it.

Doesn't help for power outages, but might for stuck float, failed pump etc.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[duwem]

10-4 did this right after it happened. Bought a battery one for about $30. Reviews on all the alarms show they don't always work, but its better than not having one.

 

[Fixed]

10-4 did this right after it happened. Bought a battery one for about $30. Reviews on all the alarms show they don't always work, but its better than not having one.

Hah, yeah I tested mine (setting it near sink, puddling some water on the floor, that sort of thing). Seems to work, but really who knows.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[carlite65]

forget the battery pumps. use this instead.

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/guardian-emergency-water-powered-backup-sump-pump.html

i have one and it has saved me twice in the last year.

 

[txst]

I have a Liberty 441 I installed about 1.5yrs ago. Earlier this month I was out of town on business and we lost power at our house in a heavy rainstorm. My wife called me panicking because there was an alarm going off in our basement, which was the backup sump pump doing its job - the alarm went off until the float switch kicked the backup pump on (this was the first time it was needed). It cycled about 7 times/hour for 2 hours with no problems. Worked as designed.

 

[duwem]

Looking at this document on it, what prevents it from pumping the water through the primary pump and into the sump?

http://www.libertypumps.com/Portals/0/Files/Sales Literature/Model_441.pdf

 

[larry4406]

Looking at this document on it, what prevents it from pumping the water through the primary pump and into the sump?

http://www.libertypumps.com/Portals/0/Files/Sales Literature/Model_441.pdf

The brochure says "Tee, check valve and bushings for
1-1/2" or 1-1/4" connections" so presumably this tee prevents adverse bleed back to the main pump, but good question.

 

[engineer2]

I found the "thump" when the pump shuts off was annoying and installed an air chamber near the pump outlet. Works like a charm.

 

[cj7jeep81]

I have a basement watchdog system from Home Depot. First installed about 10 years ago. Had to replace the pump maybe 3 years ago (the float switch went bad, and the replacement parts were nearly the same price as the pump), and have replaced the battery a couple of times.

Has ran through multiple power outages in that time, I think the longest I've gone without hooking up a generator was 8-10 hours, with heavy rains and it cycling a couple times a minute.

 

[engineer2]

Does your basement watchdog overcharge the battery? Mine does.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

Unless you're on a well, get a water-powered backup. I put in a Basepump 750 about nine years ago and it works every time. I do have to adjust the "timer" every couple of years but oh well.

 

[cj7jeep81]

Does your basement watchdog overcharge the battery? Mine does.

Not sure. I think I've bought 2 replacement batteries over the years, but they seem to last quite a while.

 

[b-boy]

If you're on municipal water, a water-powered pump is the best solution IMHO.

I lived in an older part of my city. We had frequent power outages. Combine that with a high water table, and I had major flooding problems on several occasions.

A water-powered pump will run as long as your water is running. It saved me many times. I still had a generator, but in the cases where we lost power and I wasn't around it was a godsend.

I used this : https://www.waterdamagedefense.com/...Qe8ERxe1JV_Z9qSkeCou3yAsY8CEd99RoC9AEQAvD_BwE

It's different because it mounted in the rafters, so you don't need much room in the pit.

Someone mentioned the 'thump'. I liked it because it would wake me up if we lost power in the middle of the night.

 

[maxpat82]

If you have city water.....Liberty SJ-10
http://www.libertypumps.com/Product/SJ10-SumpJet

Had it in my old house and it work great!
I don't in my new house because no city water:|

if not: battery power is pretty much your only option.
(or you find an old computer UPS)

 

[MrNiceGuy!]

I have a Liberty water powered backup and have needed it a number of times. It works great and I highly recommend it. When we're travelling for any length of time and we're away from home it gives me great peace of mind.

 

[6768rogues]

When I go to FL for the winter, I turn off our water at where it enters the cellar. Then if everything goes wrong and a pipe freezes/breaks/whatever the only water leaving the pipe is the water in the pipe, it will not spray until someone notices. Therefore, I cannot use a water powered backup pump. I do not have anything in the cellar that would be damaged by a few inches of water, and I have an alarm that calls my cell phone if the temp goes below 50 or the power goes out. My son is nearby and he checks our house.

 

[Mooky]

Had a watchdog that was installed by previous owner. Two batteries in four years, overcharging. Never ran, during that time. When it was needed, failed due to fine tree roots in the impeller. Broke at the impeller hub (light duty construction). Scrapped it and instalked a Zoeller.

Roots weren't their fault of course, but it was not the caliber of the Zoeller

 

[larry4406]

If you're on municipal water, a water-powered pump is the best solution IMHO.

I lived in an older part of my city. We had frequent power outages. Combine that with a high water table, and I had major flooding problems on several occasions.

A water-powered pump will run as long as your water is running. It saved me many times. I still had a generator, but in the cases where we lost power and I wasn't around it was a godsend.

I used this : https://www.waterdamagedefense.com/...Qe8ERxe1JV_Z9qSkeCou3yAsY8CEd99RoC9AEQAvD_BwE

It's different because it mounted in the rafters, so you don't need much room in the pit.

Someone mentioned the 'thump'. I liked it because it would wake me up if we lost power in the middle of the night.

This one is pretty slick!

 

[bob15]

Know someone with the Zoeller battery back-up, no issues after 4-5 years now.

If you go battery back-up, you need a deep cycle, marine/RV type battery.

 

[duwem]

No city water here.

 

[CKS1955]

I have a basement watchdog system from Home Depot. First installed about 10 years ago. Had to replace the pump maybe 3 years ago (the float switch went bad, and the replacement parts were nearly the same price as the pump), and have replaced the battery a couple of times.

Has ran through multiple power outages in that time, I think the longest I've gone without hooking up a generator was 8-10 hours, with heavy rains and it cycling a couple times a minute.

I also have the Basement Watchdog Combo and performs fine. My doesn't seem to overcharge. As with any deep cycle must check fluid level on a regular basis. Not a big deal, only takes a few seconds with a battery filler with automatic shut off.

We are on well water, so a water backup isn't possibly. We do have a standby generator, so the battery backup is a belt and suspender approach for me. I have the Basement Watchdog Combo installed, plus another 1/2 hp sump. This gives me three sumps. With the floats installed at different levels. And an alarm float hooked to the home security system, this float activates the alarm if the main pump fails. Plus you can hook the Basement Watchdog system to your alarm.

Jay

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't have any useful advice to offer about pumps, but one thing I did was throw a water alarm in my sump area.

That way if the pit does start overflowing, it'll go off and (hopefully) someone will hear it.

Great idea ! Can you mount is about 2"-4" below the overflow ?

If you live "in the city" and have city water, they make water powered backup pumps. No battery !

The first one the OP referenced looks like a 12VDC pump. Flow drops off if the head is >10' so need to check that.

Actually a "roll your own" solution is quite simple. The must expensive part would be a 12V lead acid TRUE deep cycle battery (Trojan T-1275 AGM). Probably only found in a golf cart store. An inverter large enough to power the exiting pump and a 120V AC DPDT relay that switches power supplied to pump and a Battery Tender to charge the battery on a mechanical lamp timer (don't charge for more than 1-2 hours in a 24 hour period if the battery is NOT in use).

Of course, this only covers AC power failures. More creativity required for a true back up. No inverter or relay. 12VDC boat bilge pump with a separate float switch. Watch out ! most of those can not lift over 10' !

 

[bob15]

and a Battery Tender to charge the battery on a mechanical lamp timer (don't charge for more than 1-2 hours in a 24 hour period if the battery is NOT in use). !

Not quite. You keep the battery tender/batteryminder/maintainer plugged in and on all the time......that is how they are designed to work (they turn themselves on and off).

http://www.batteryminders.com/6-volt-desulfating-battery-charger-worldwide-use

 

[Stevedore]

We moved to this house last year which has a sump pump in the basement. Having no experience with sump pumps, I laid awake at night worrying that we'd have a power failure & flood. I looked at the sump during a few heavy rains, and it was essentially dry, which put my mind somewhat at ease. I still worried, since the previous owner disclosed that the basement had flooded 3-4" during a storm a few years earlier due to a pump failure.

If I recall correctly, I read somewhere on GJ about water-powered backup pumps, which I had never heard of, so I installed a Liberty SJ-10. (pic attached) It was a little tricky getting everything in the sump, as it's on the small side, and there's a radon fan intake in there as well. I've tested the backup several times, & it works well & drains the sump quickly.

The 2 green things in the pipes are check valves to keep either pump from pumping water back through the other one in the event of a clog in the discharge pipe. I think the SJ-10 has an integral check valve anyway, but I'm not sure about the electric one.

 

[Royalwapiti]

I installed a liberty water powered sump backup in August. Would never mess with batteries, they are a pita. The Liberty work great if you are not on a well. You need public water supply that doesn’t require power. They are relatively inexpensive as well.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

The OP stated he's not on city water, so water-powered is a no-go.

 

[ford33]

My suggestion would be to keep all plumbing separate and to connect your well to a home alarm water sensor.

Do not connect your pump outlet pipes together as this will present one point of failure. Use a two outlet pipes located at different sides of the building if possible and use two different electrical circuits to power the pumps. Think of each pump as completely separate from the other.

Why you may ask. I have have had personal experience when a combined outlet pipe froze in a cold winter preventing both pumps from extracting water. Having one pipe on the other side of the building would make the sun heat the pipe during the day and snow buildup provide some insulation.

In another case, a heavy rain flooded the small pond and yard behind my home and submerged the outlet pipe. The water had enough pressure to prevent the pumps from flowing enough water to empty the sump well.

In another case, the float failed on one pump and the second pump ran until the battery was dead. Nobody home to hear the alarms so now I have the sump pumps tied into the monitored home alarm system. I can call my neighbor to investigate if I am not available.

In all the above cases, the pumps worked but single point of failures caused no water to be ejected out of the well.

 

[polizei1]

Wow, never knew about these water-backup systems...I've been looking into normal sump battery backups and they never work (too much water, they often fail). I'm wondering if the water-backup is a viable solution vs. just cutting into the concrete and running a pipe from the sump directly into the sewer discharge. Yes this is against code, but my builder recommended it. This way, water will run directly into the sewer, with a hope that the basement will never flood.

Background: I live on a table, my sump runs every 30sec-1min usually. I've been through flooded basements before, even with a battery backup (that failed).

Cutting into the floor is not really something I want to do, but it's definitely cheap! Just wondering if it's worth it to spend the money on the water-backup system instead....

 

[6768rogues]

If I used a water powered pump, I would put at least a check valve in its water supply so if everything goes wrong sump water cannot be sucked back into my potable water system.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If I used a water powered pump, I would put at least a check valve in its water supply so if everything goes wrong sump water cannot be sucked back into my potable water system.

That is a code requirement...

Tommy

 

[duwem]

Again, no city water.

Would one expect longer battery life and less messing around with a sealed battery. Sounds like its $100 more than a lead acid that needs to be topped off every so often.

 

[Jeepster04]

The only experience I have with a battery backup is at my aunt/uncles house. During heavy rains they get a tremendous amount of water in their sump. They bought a new house that I had never been to and called me one rainy day saying an alarm was going off in their basement and the water level was high in their sump. Me, never seeing the house, didnt know what was going on but after they explained the situation I concluded their main pump was bad and they had some sort of battery backup.

The battery backup could not handle the amount of water coming in even when running constantly. The water was level with the top of the sump and the battery was dying. So in situations like this, the battery backup just couldn't handle the flow. They did buy a charger to charge the battery but it kicked off during the night since it thought the battery was bad (voltage wasn't going up). 'Smart chargers' aren't always that smart. They had 2" of water in their basement the next morning.

After visiting the house several days later I was absolutely blown away with the amount of water that was entering the sump. I recommended another sump but they haven't put one in. The water was under pressure coming in through the holes in the sides of the sump. I have a video but its too much trouble to upload. During the summer the sump was dry.

If the battery backup had a charger capable of keeping up with the draw of the pump it would be 'ok' but the trickle chargers are useless IMHO.

 

[Bretny]

Wow, never knew about these water-backup systems...I've been looking into normal sump battery backups and they never work (too much water, they often fail). I'm wondering if the water-backup is a viable solution vs. just cutting into the concrete and running a pipe from the sump directly into the sewer discharge. Yes this is against code, but my builder recommended it. This way, water will run directly into the sewer, with a hope that the basement will never flood.

Background: I live on a table, my sump runs every 30sec-1min usually. I've been through flooded basements before, even with a battery backup (that failed).

Cutting into the floor is not really something I want to do, but it's definitely cheap! Just wondering if it's worth it to spend the money on the water-backup system instead....

That sounds good but can leed to real ****** situation when the sewer backs up.

 

[bob15]

Again, no city water.

Would one expect longer battery life and less messing around with a sealed battery. Sounds like its $100 more than a lead acid that needs to be topped off every so often.

I would buy an AGM. Make sure it is a Deep Cycle marine-type battery and not an auto-type.

 

[duwem]

Any more feedback on battery backup sump pumps?

 

[BD1]

My sump pump pit is a large diameter. I added a additional pump in the pit but both are electric. One is a submersible and they other a float type. The adjustable float type is the backup with float set higher . Works for me.

 

[G-rex]

I've been looking at the Pump Sentry because I'm not really a fan of the water powered solution.

It is basically an AC/DC converter that connects to a car battery and has a battery trickle charger built in. The benefit is you can use it with an existing sump pump, which is good especially if you don't have room in your pit for another pump or outlet.

 

[3onthetree]

Any more feedback on battery backup sump pumps?

Not familiar with the water-powered sumps, but some cities have to pump their water to certain neighborhoods, so if those go down I don't know if lacking peak pressure would affect them.

I move a lot of table water. I have an older Zoeller pedestal, and the marine battery should be good for 7-10 years. It has worked as designed a couple short stints. It's just backup in a single pit, so I don't expect it to move as much as the main pump. My focus is the frontline: a Zoeller M53 and another on the shelf so I have under-fire replacement when that fails, and the switch will fail on any brand over time.

After having a failed motor on a big-box store pump and flood, I only do Zoeller now.

 

[muskieken]

I would just like to Add , I had a problem with my sump pump , And the problem turned out to be The hose clamp Rotted. It was stainless steel But the Bolt that does the screw on the clamp was not stainless
So then I went and looked at a bunch of my screw clamps(hose clamps) and sure enough Lot of them have Little rust on the bolt, But the band is stainless So when putting your system together make sure all your clamps are Stainless steel
Ps it was 12 years Before the Bolt rusted enough To let the clamp fall apart and jam the float portion of my sump pump.
Ps2 so when I put in my battery backup sump pump I replaced it With the Home Depot Guaranteed for life sump pump Well 2 years in The pump Failed Turns out The pump was fine it was the float portion That was Broken and the only has a 2 year warranty Lesson learned I replaced it with a zoeller That was in the hole in the 1st place With a new zoellar sump pump, The old zoeller Was 20 years old So I figured time for a new one But it was still working fine