Wamsutta
Well-known member
Are battery drills obsolete for driving screws now? Impact drivers are the preferred choice?
Battery Drills
- Thread starter Wamsutta
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The Bean
Well-known member
All the crews I work with on home contruction have both types. The impact drivers are much better for big screws on rough framing. The standard drill drivers are used for things like installing electrical devices.
I imagine same holds true for other trades.
I imagine same holds true for other trades.
Dave455
Well-known member
Impact drivers can drive screws far too hard in some cases.
My drill driver has 12 torque settings so whatever screws I’m driving I can set it to get them exactly flush. And even if it didn’t it’s far more controllable.
So in best GJ tradition you need both!
My drill driver has 12 torque settings so whatever screws I’m driving I can set it to get them exactly flush. And even if it didn’t it’s far more controllable.
So in best GJ tradition you need both!
The Bean
Well-known member
Yes. I've seen many of the best quality screws broken off by that torque. With enough practice, the guys I know can drive every one perfect. It's not for the amateur.
Nope, not even a question for the things I work with. There are many different type of screws, there are those where driving with an impact is not ideal & a clutch is more preferable. Sure I can use an impact with caution & common sense & I do sometimes. But there are cases where I prefer a clutch. I have a little subcompact drill that I use at work for this purpose.
And I actually just bought a cordless "screwdriver" last week which is basically like a cordless drill with clutch settings (non impacting) but no 2 speed gearbox & no drill chuck, has a 1/4' hex collet. Surprising for me cause it's on a totally different battery platform than I normally use & it's from a brand that I don't care for.
And I actually just bought a cordless "screwdriver" last week which is basically like a cordless drill with clutch settings (non impacting) but no 2 speed gearbox & no drill chuck, has a 1/4' hex collet. Surprising for me cause it's on a totally different battery platform than I normally use & it's from a brand that I don't care for.
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paulsomlo
Well-known member
With an impact, you blink, and you'll blow the screw head right through the workpiece.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I use an impact about 98% of the time but will break out a drill when trying to keep the noise level down.
JerseyBoatBuilder
Well-known member
Definitely not obsolete with finish work where you want a clutch to restrict the amount of torque applied to the fastener.
Same with pilot holes and countersinks.
Same with pilot holes and countersinks.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
The correct answer is you need both as they really aren't the same tool. One point I would like to make is that on the drill you want a mechanical clutch rather than an electronic one. Milwaukee has switched back and forth in this respect but always seems to come back to the mechanical clutch as I've found these to be more repeatable.
YesIHaveAHammer
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When I have a lot of the same to do, like fence panels, or self-drilling metal roof sheet screws, it's nice to set and forget the clutch to drive every one to a consistent stop.
Also for removing old screws, I've snapped some even going slow with an M12 Surge (low power hydraulic impact).
Also for removing old screws, I've snapped some even going slow with an M12 Surge (low power hydraulic impact).
whateg01
Well-known member
The problem with a mechanical clutch is you can continue to pull the trigger and then it just hammers at it, like an impact. We tested this at work to see whether using a drill with a clutch could replace using the electric screwdriver which was very slow. As long as the tech was consistent at stopping as soon as the clutch slipped, it was fairly repeatable. But if they kept the trigger pulled, it would continue to tighten the fastener more for a little while.
That's a good point and this is one of reasons I actually prefer a mechanical clutch. There are certain cases for me at work where the set clutch setting fails to drive a screw all the way home. A couple of more blips of the trigger takes care of that. Yeah I know it's not good practice & theoretically adds more wear to the clutch but I'm not concerned & doesn't happen often.
Interested in your thoughts. I’ve read mixed reviews about the surge.
None of us can speak for all workers but for me the answer is a clear yes to both questions.
I don’t love doing it, but I’ve been drilling holes with my impacts, like when I need to toe nail a screw and I want it to be neat. It’s easier for me to bring an extra bit than an extra tool.
jrsavoie
Well-known member
X2
Ultradog MN
Well-known member
I suppose both types have their place.
I still prefer using a drill driver because they are quiet.
The constant rattling sound of an impact type reminds me of the quote by the Prussian philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer (1788–1860)
"A man's intelligence is inversely proportional to his tolerance to noise."
I still prefer using a drill driver because they are quiet.
The constant rattling sound of an impact type reminds me of the quote by the Prussian philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer (1788–1860)
"A man's intelligence is inversely proportional to his tolerance to noise."
jives
Well-known member
Just drilled a number of 3/8" holes in 1/2" steel with my Makita drill. Not only would the bits not fit in the impact driver, but what a racket and damage to the bits. Also, how would an impact drive hole saws, spade bits, and the like? Need both.
Nobody-named-Olli
Well-known member
They’re making all of that “impact rated”/ hex-shaft these days.
But yeah, I’m also in the camp of definitely ”need” both. I won’t grab an impact unless I need it.
Kind regards,
Olli
One of my friends came to help me install girders for mezzanine floors. We attached them with some big structural screws. No problem for my old brushed Bosch impacts. But he asked where I kept my hearing protection. I have it, but don’t think to wear it for my impacts.
As the barn gets more finished and I start working on the interior, I may switch to something like the surge for noise alone. I know it’s not as powerful as what I have. But I shouldn’t need the torque I have for fresh lumber and small screws. Maybe switching to all 12v will be good enough.
This old impactor delivers around 1500inlbs of torque. Newer models are better, maybe as much as 1600inlbs. The surge is 1/3 of that. They produce 450inlbs. And Milwaukee says the 12v and 18v are the same in torque. My 12v right angle Milwaukee is fine for driving screws. It produces 650inlbs. So the Surge is pretty anemic. I’d like to hear real world experiences.
On the Surge part…
I have been using the Surge for many years and absolutely love it over the regular impact drivers. I never even use the impacts that I have after I got one. I have 4 Gen 1 Surge and they are my workhorse go to tools. They have GREAT control over speed which is why I prefer them. The Gen 2 I just got seems to be just as good on controlling the revolutions/speed but with even more torque. Haven’t had a real job with it other than playing with it.
micromind
Well-known member
I've been using impacts to drive screws even with a pneumatic model back before battery tools took over.
Yes, it's more noise but also far more precise and I believe that impacts break fewer screws that the constant torque of a drill.
Yes, it's more noise but also far more precise and I believe that impacts break fewer screws that the constant torque of a drill.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I use a drill once in a while but it's more for nostalgia as well as to justify having two old school brushed and one Fuel M18 and two old M12 drills on the wall above the bench.
At work I use the two drills often enough that I don't have to justify anything.
At work I use the two drills often enough that I don't have to justify anything.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
This kind of structural screw? If so, a drill is much more efficient and quieter for running them in.
richfinn
Well-known member
I have a 1/4" hex chuck Bosch drill/driver and a Milwaukee Impact driver. (Both in 12v)
I use the Bosch for small drilling tasks and interior trim work (the clutch keeps the torque reasonable for driving into flimsy plastics)
The Milwaukee I mostly use as a 1/4" square drive impact wrench for ripping off vehicle Undertrays and swapping car batteries
They are both great tools, but you wouldn't want to drill through plastic UK licence plates with the Milwaukee or rely on the Bosch for nuts and bolts type jobs.
I kind of wish I got both tools in Bosch though
No. That looks like a GRK. They are technically structural in that they have strength. I’ve driven normal screws with drills before. You are right. That’s totally legit and so e YouTube pros recommend it. But I don’t love driving screws with drills. I feel like it’s easier for the bit to slip.This kind of structural screw? If so, a drill is much more efficient and quieter for running them in.
I’m talking about the sorts of screws that architects or civil/structurals call out, or building inspectors count.
These can be challenging to drive. In my story, we were driving 8” versions thru 2.0E microlams. They have T40 heads vs T20 for the GRK above(if that’s any indicator of the size difference).
Thanks for posting this. Looks like the gen2 M18 Surge produces 1000inlbs, which is plenty. Is it louder than the gen1?On the Surge part…
I have been using the Surge for many years and absolutely love it over the regular impact drivers. I never even use the impacts that I have after I got one. I have 4 Gen 1 Surge and they are my workhorse go to tools. They have GREAT control over speed which is why I prefer them. The Gen 2 I just got seems to be just as good on controlling the revolutions/speed but with even more torque. Haven’t had a real job with it other than playing with it.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I think you need to do some research.No. That looks like a GRK. They are technically structural in that they have strength. I’ve driven normal screws with drills before. You are right. That’s totally legit and so e YouTube pros recommend it. But I don’t love driving screws with drills. I feel like it’s easier for the bit to slip.
I’m talking about the sorts of screws that architects or civil/structurals call out, or building inspectors count.
These can be challenging to drive. In my story, we were driving 8” versions thru 2.0E microlams. They have T40 heads vs T20 for the GRK above(if that’s any indicator of the size difference).
GRK RSS is an acronym for rugged structural screw.
They introduced them in 1995 long before any of the other versions like Simpson existed. I was using them in construction. And I’ve used all the other major players as they came to market.
I couldn’t care less what the YouTube “pros” recommend. I was sharing my experience from driving hundreds/probably thousands of these myself, in all different sizes, lengths and substrates. I was installing these before YouTube existed.
The RSS don’t come with a T20 head.
The #10 and 1/4 are T25, the 5/16 are T30 and the 3/8 are T40.
Here’s the ESR-2442 approval:
https://www.grkfasteners.com/getmedia/b64849dd-d482-40f5-ac48-964f9dc1b19f/ESR-2442_1.pdf?ext=.pdf
I’ve used most of the SST fastener line. I found the Timber Screws fairly crude in quality compared to GRK.
Oh, and a drill does less damage to the protective coating, slowing down corrosion starting on the exposed fastener head.
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Thanks I'll try my drill again. I have this albatross project and need all the help I can get.I think you need to do some research.
GRK RSS is an acronym for rugged structural screw.
They introduced them in 1995 long before any of the other versions like Simpson existed. I was using them in construction. And I’ve used all the other major players as they came to market.
I couldn’t care less what the YouTube “pros” recommend. I was sharing my experience from driving hundreds/probably thousands of these myself, in all different sizes, lengths and substrates. I was installing these before YouTube existed.
The RSS don’t come with a T20 head.
The #10 and 1/4 are T25, the 5/16 are T30 and the 3/8 are T40.
Here’s the ESR-2442 approval:
https://www.grkfasteners.com/getmedia/b64849dd-d482-40f5-ac48-964f9dc1b19f/ESR-2442_1.pdf?ext=.pdf
I’ve used most of the SST fastener line. I found the Timber Screws fairly crude in quality compared to GRK.
Oh, and a drill does less damage to the protective coating, slowing down corrosion starting on the exposed fastener head.
I'm not a pro and it sounds like you are! That said, since you mentioned it, I've probably driven 5000 GRKs in the last 6 months. Probably 5X that in the past 2 yrs.
I installed this plywood floor. It's actually double 3/4", both plies glued and screwed. This is 1800sqft. I did this on my knees, no special long autoloading screw gun. It was not fun.
The plywood I'm unloading is for the next floors up. You can see the joists.
Here are the mezzanines. These are roughly 600sqft each (so 20 sheets of plywood). The mezzanine floors are much lower loaded. I glued and nailed them with ring shank nails.
With modern Torx head screws the impact driver doesn’t offer as many advantages as it once did.
I use both but my drill comes off the truck every day my impact might not come off more than a couple times a month depending on the task at hand.
Honestly the only thing I really prefer an impact over a drill for is 3 inch or longer deck screws and certain structural fasteners.
I use both but my drill comes off the truck every day my impact might not come off more than a couple times a month depending on the task at hand.
Honestly the only thing I really prefer an impact over a drill for is 3 inch or longer deck screws and certain structural fasteners.
TailGunner3000
Well-known member
I believe the OP was specifically asking about driving screws, not the general functionality of a drill/driver.
Just a DIYer here. I’ve only used my drills for drilling and impact driver for driving screws.
Lag bolts, I’ll use an impact wrench.
In the end, if it gets the job done, safely, and in a somewhat timely manner, that’s all that matters.
Lag bolts, I’ll use an impact wrench.
In the end, if it gets the job done, safely, and in a somewhat timely manner, that’s all that matters.
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jives
Well-known member
I believe you are correct!
But, with that in mind, driving construction type screws is the domain of the impact driver, smaller and more delicate work needs to be done by hand or a drill.
duneslider
Well-known member
I drive a lot of screws with my makita drywall drill, it's way faster than an impact.
I use my drill to drive screws when noise is an issue.
I use the impact most of the time to drive screws.
So, is the regular drill obsolete, I don't think so but I do generally prefer the impact for most screws. When doing smaller screws like hinges, drawer slides, etc I use the drill as there seems to be a bit more fine control. Some big long screws also seem to work better with the drill than the impact.
I use my drill to drive screws when noise is an issue.
I use the impact most of the time to drive screws.
So, is the regular drill obsolete, I don't think so but I do generally prefer the impact for most screws. When doing smaller screws like hinges, drawer slides, etc I use the drill as there seems to be a bit more fine control. Some big long screws also seem to work better with the drill than the impact.
There are so many specialty bits/drivers/etc that do not have a 1/4" hex drive
Having a 3 jaw chuck is indispensable in that regard
If you aren't doing much specialty work I guess you could get by w just a few impacts?
Having a 3 jaw chuck is indispensable in that regard
If you aren't doing much specialty work I guess you could get by w just a few impacts?
Agree. Maybe the drill manufacturers, who also make the drill bit sets with the hex shanks, purposely make those cruddy to get us to buy drills so we can use proper drill bits? I have a couple sets of the hex shank drills. You'd think these would be awesome. No need for a drill anymore! On paper, that's true. But they are rarely awesome. And the gun goes into impact mode half way into the work.
Somebody mentioned spade bits. All my spade bit sets have 1/4" hex shanks which fit perfectly into my impact. Small bits work ok. The big paddle drills just rattle, as the impact gun impacts. (go figure).
I bought a Milwaukee Hole Hawg with a drill chuck. Kinda regret it. I only use it with stuff that already has a hex (hole saws, sometimes augers).
Impacts drive spade bits just fine. In stuff where the bit can bind, they’re less of a threat to your wrist, because the tool doesn’t try to spin the way a drill would. Every spade bit I have seen in the last decade or so has had a hex shank, specifically for use in an impact driver. My Milwaukee hole saws specifically say they’re suitable to use in an impact driver. I have never done that, but for stuff where hole quality doesn’t matter, I bet they’re great.
finn
Well-known member
The impact mode doesn’t seem to bother the screw from going in, at least for me.
I rarely use a regular drill, except for sharpening tungsten and mixing mud, plus drilling holes for which I don’t have the correct size hex shank drill bit.
LopezBart
Well-known member
I really like the hex drill bits when I'm up on a ladder and don't need to carrying both the M18 drill and the M18 impact driver. I use the M18 drill when predrilling a stack of sheets.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I have really come to appreciate my 1/4 hex compact drill driver.
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reader2580
Well-known member
I use an M12 screwdriver the most these days followed by my M12 Surge impact. My Makita LXT impact only comes out for really big fasteners.
I have a Makita LXT drill for anything that requires a drill. I don’t use an impact for drilling.
I have a Makita LXT drill for anything that requires a drill. I don’t use an impact for drilling.