Beam length

[David C]

Mr. Bcyzgan,

Did you just offer, in writing, to provide structural engineering services in Canada?

I am an Architectural Designer, not a registered Architect or Engineer, but I have designed and rehabbed structures similar to what you describe.

Give us the information we need, and we can advise you. It's not rocket surgery.

I don't know the law in Canada but I would suspect that it is similar to state laws in the US. If Canada has similar laws you probably are already in violation, even before you provide any work product.

You may be guilty of violating an Ontario civil statute, but you would likely be personally liable for any adverse outcome during construction or after, regardless of whether you provided an adequate design.

You might also be breaking the laws of the state in which you do business.

 

[bczygan]

One of the last garages I designed had 2x6 joists holding up an attic that was living space with 2 dormers.

The loads of a couple of layers of shingles and the concentrated loads from the dormers, that were not properly transferred down to the foundation, along with a stairway that had been cut into the framing, produced a structure that was deflecting 4" in places.

The fix was to cut the spans by installing LVL's in the same plane as the existing joists and carefully locating a couple columns where they wouldn't be objectionable to transfer the loads.

LVL's were also needed to spread and transfer loads from the dormers and to replace dimensional garage door headers that were undersized.

First the structure needed to be lightened by removing the roofing (Which needed replacing anyway), and jacking the structure up and supporting it with temporary walls, so joists could be cut to install the LVL's and joist hangers.

The existing garage had been poorly designed when it was originally constructed, and this was the result. After these structural improvements the upstairs was usable and the dormers were able to be kept.

.

 

[bczygan]

Mr. Bcyzgan,

Did you just offer, in writing, to provide structural engineering services in Canada?

I am an Architectural Designer, not a registered Architect or Engineer, but I have designed and rehabbed structures similar to what you describe.

Give us the information we need, and we can advise you. It's not rocket surgery.

I don't know the law in Canada but I would suspect that it is similar to state laws in the US. If Canada has similar laws you probably are already in violation, even before you provide any work product.

You may be guilty of violating an Ontario civil statute, but you would likely be personally liable for any adverse outcome during construction or after, regardless of whether you provided an adequate design.

You might also be breaking the laws of the state in which you do business.

No I did not.

 

[Ironcrow]

I'm on your side Drew. I am well aware of what an architect and structural engineer can offer and as matter of fact hired both for building design, retaining walls, and revisions on my house. On the other hand when I needed a beam about 6 feet long for a minor revision to the plans (put a door in a load bearing wall), I used a cast off from the glulam ridge beam. This is a chunk of wood with a 16 inch beam depth, 6 inches wide. I figured if the original piece was good for 24 feet, I could jump 6 feet without pulling out the calculator. The wood was "free" and I saved money for the engineer when I need it.

By the way, one end of that 24 foot ridge beam is supported by (and stamped by the engineer) a sandwich of five 2x6s.

 

[Bassfishing54]

Wowser893,
I am new to the site, but hope I can give you a little assistance. We just opened up a load bearing wall to expand the kitchen. I went to a local lumberyard (not a BB store) that had someone that does job bids for contractors. He was able to contact their LVL (engineered beam) supplier and give someone there the dimensions for our changes and calculate the header size needed. We could not carry the load with dimensional lumber, but 2 LVL engineering beams were sufficient. Using the dimensions of opening span (14') and the ceiling joist spans to the front (18') and to the rear (14') and the roof pitches (10/12 for front) and (6/12 for the rear) on a single story home with no attic storage. It required 2 - 2"x16" lvl's glued and nailed together to open up the 14' span. Took about 2-3 minutes to make the calculations and determine size. There was no charge, as these guys usually do a cost estimate for materials needed to build homes to help contractors wit bidding jobs. They will also do the same for a DIY builder also.

I would call around and find someone at a lumber yard that can assist you. I would ask if they have a contact for LVLs and what dimensions are needed, for the calculations. I am assuming the calculation would have to include numbers for he storage area, as he asked if the attic was used for storage, but ours is not.

Hope this helps.

 

[404]

Just curious how you can design or engineer anything without knowing the existing structure and loads that will be imposed?

Very good question, but we do know something about the structure and the load.

Old garage 16x20. I take that as residential wood construction, 2x4 walls.

"Stuff" that is making the ceiling sag.

Garage has not collapsed yet. So we know existing garage supports load.

The beam pictured is much stiffer than any construction in the garage at present.

So probable that beam will support load also.

To summarize: Load is held now. Beam is an improvement.

 

[DTE]

Why not just use a steel beam ?

 

[tehach]

Hire the professional, it's a bargain.

 

[wssix99]

maybe i will have to call in a favor or 2 from my contractor friends who know such information

I'd recommend you do this. ^ This isn't a problem that requires rocket science and can be resolved with some experience and lookup tables. (If you didn't have standard joists and were dealing with trusses - this would be a completely different situation.)


Doubling up the joists would double the carrying capacity of the system (assuming the walls can take it) and is probably the easiest/least expensive way to go.

I'd also recommend that you remove some of the weight before you do this so you can get rid of the sag before you strengthen things.

BTW - Your local municipality may offer an outdoor deck building guide, which usually have span tables for some basic scenarios and loading. That may give you some idea of strengths you'd up with if you divide the span in two with a beam or double your existing joist capacity. You would still be best served by luring your contractor friends over (free beer usually helps) to confirm things against their experience.

 

[msherrow]

I am a big diyer like you with experience as a framer and degree in architectural design. My opinion (which is probably worth what you are paying for it, lol) is to remove everything from attic space, sister 2x6sto originalceiling joists. Without removing stuff from attic ot will be difficult to take the sag out. Also, i assume there is a garage door on the 16' side so what would support the beam? If you try to attach to original header then the door frame will sag. It is assumed this roof is conventional frame not trusses or there would not be storage space. If so there should be collar ties above the ceiling rafters. Pics would definetly help. My $.02.