Bedroom Outlet Question

[p_mori7]

Hello All;

I have a question about ONE of the outlets in my master bedroom. There is ONE of 4 outlets that hasn't worked in a while.

Several years ago, I repainted the bedroom. While doing the prep work, I elected to change all the old beige outlets to white. In doing so, I found ONE outlet that was wired different from the others. The outlet did work...BUT....

The wire going into the outlet is regular 14/2 Romex...just like the others.

The black was connected to the lower brass screw. The bare ground was connected to the green ground screw on the receptacle. The Neutral (white) was connected to the ground screw OF THE BOX.



The area around the ground screw on the box is blackened.



I disconnected that Neutral, and installed the new receptacle with the Black-Hot to the lower brass screws, the ground to the Green-gorund screw, and the White-Neutral to the upper silver screw.

The outlet DID NOT WORK.



At the time, I just said screw it! I removed the new receptacle, capped off the wires with wire nuts, and put a cover plate on it.

This morning I tried another new receptacle...wired like it should be...and it still doesn't work. I am hesitant to try connecting the neutral TO THE BOX and trying it again.

Would any electricians here on GJ have any thoughts or ideas please ?

 

[brewchief]

Possibly a broken neutral wire between outlets. Pull other outlets and look for a bad neutral connection on the wire that should be feeding that outlet.

 

[The Cobbler]

not an electrician, but check for voltage at the white & blk wires. also what above poster said...

 

[p_mori7]

Thanks for the tips guys. I was kinda thinking open neutral as well, but am wondering why the neutral was screwed to the ground screw of the box...

On a whim, I plugged in a glow pad night light. It worked ??? Now I am thinking WTF ? So I try a regular incandescent lamp...it still doesn't work...Hmmm...so this has me really thinking open neutral...then I plug in the iPhone charger and the iPhone...the phone chirps every second or so but doesn't charge.

So now I am sure that I don't have a 'dead' outlet...rather an outlet with an issue...

So I removed the new receptacle and reinstalled the wirenuts and put the cover back on. Will be out of town until Thursday, so will check it further then.

I do remember when I installed the new receptacles a few years ago, I backstabbed them rather than using the side screws. This outlet has to be the last one on the chain either left or right of it, so I will check them both later this week.

I don't remember if the bare ground was also screwed into the back of the box...maybe that might explain it...if the previous owner of the house had bonded the neutral and the ground together on the box...I think that might have enabled the completion of the circuit ? It would also explain the scorch marks on the back of the box perhaps ?

I hate when people jury-rig **** rather than fixing it properly.

Any other ideas, please chime in !

PS: I don't have a voltmeter anymore...I forgot it at the hunting camp ! I guess this is a good excuse to go buy a better one !

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If its the push in back stab, get rid of them. Nothing but problems. Get some decent receptacles, you can get medium to good (spec or commercial) that are a "back stab" that you put the wire in and tighten the screw. Serrated plate clamps the wire. Old push in back stabs depended on a spring finger to hold the wire in and the wire being perfectly flat and smooth to make the most contact when it slides in. They are junk.

 

[Mustang51js]

I always wrap the screw with the wire because most of the outlets I fix were previously back stabbed. Without a voltage tester it's hard to figure out the issue,most likely a loose neutral and since there's usually some voltage showing that's why the night light lit up.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

U said that this box is at the end of the line so the neutral arcing on the box wouldnt make sense and wouldnt explain the blackened area in the box since there would be no load running through it, unless the neutral is not connected to the panel on the other end and then it would be establishing a connection via ground!

I dont see how the outlet worked before u changed it unless there was a jumper from the silver screw to the box!

 

[p_mori7]

I am pretty sure it is at the end of the line, all other outlets in the room work normally and are wired normally.

Establishing the connection thru the ground is what I was trying to say.

It's been a few years that I had the outlet in question simply cancelled with wirenuts on the black & white and a cover plate over the box.

I don't remember if there was a jumper. I understand how it would have needed one. I remember seeing the wiring and thinking it was hinky...but I didn't take a photo of it at the time.

 

[lbmcse]

Seems to be unknown whether or not the outlet is an end-of-line outlet. Whether it is or isn't, too many variables exist to for this to be cut and dry. The neutral that was incorrectly landed to the box probably left black because the neutral is a grounded conductor; meaning where it's derived, (the first means of disconnect) it's joined to the ground. It mustn't be grounded AFTER that point. The blackening indicates a high resistance joint. This means heat, and arcs and sparks. This lends to high potential for electrical fire. Whoever originally wired this created a monster.

High resistance causes heat, causing insulation degradation to the point where faults to ground occur. That neutral wire is toast. If you could somehow tap into a neutral from another receptacle in the room and get it run to the affected outlet, it would solve the issue.

Your choice to cap all wires and put a blank plate on the box was very wise.


An electrician might attack this problem by using a tester to find the box directly upstream of it; and running a piece of romex from the bottom of that box to the bottom the affected box. If on the same wall, he'd likely remove the baseboard, and cut a notch in the drywall adjacent to the floor; sufficient to fish the romex up one box, along the slab, under the drywall, tucked back, and up to the affected box. Problem solved.