Beginner tig fillers

[mds5951]

Picked up a beginner ac/D.C. Tig machine (ahp 200) to cut my teeth on. Have a new helmet on order, a miller digital Elite (miller had 50/60 dollar rebates on some models if your wallet is a little heavy) to replace my cheapie tractor supply one.

I have a couple friends willing to show me the basics but I know I'll have my work cut out for me.

Been looking at filler material and wanted to know what I should have on hand for general use. Mainly looking at carbon and aluminum for now. Also what seems to be your most commonly used tungsten size. Thanks in advance!

Feel free to chime in with any more advice!

 

[dogdog]

filler rods dependents on the material you are welding...

These are common ones I think....
Steel:
ER70S
ERCUSI-A silicon bronze

Stainless: remember to back purge if you are welding thin sheet... at least if you are seeing surging on the back of the weld.
ER308
ER309L

Aluminium 6000 series, not all aluminium are weldable. No further info from me on this.

this is a good read, but I always forgot which witch is which ....
http://www.millerwelds.com/resource...elding-discussions/21165-tig-rod-4043-or-5356

ER5356
ER4043

Those are just common ones, there are a lot of speciality rods...

 

[iowa4x4dieselman]

For carbon ER70S-(2 or 6) will work for Anything (pipe or plate)I wouldn't use the mentioned ercusi filler unless you were welding silicone bronze alloys together.

Stainless the 308 or 309 that was mentioned it will depend on what P-group your welding 8-8 ( stainless to stainless use 308) or 1-8 (carbon to stainless use 309).

I won't be much help on the aluminum without checking my notes at work, we don't use that much in the nuclear field. It's mostly carbon, stainless, and chromium which for that is ER80S-B2 and requires pre-heat to weld.

Tungsten should be sized to filler material.

Any more questions feel free to ask, and post up some pics of your setup and some welds!!


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[kkroger]

Mild er70 you can use S2 or S3 or S6 (MIG Wire works fine it is S6 which makes it wet out nice)

Stainless 308L Typical unless joining SS and MILD then 309L there are other circumstance for particular alloys but this will get you for 99%

Aluminum
4043 for about everything except 50 series with the exception of 5052, won't anodize contains Silicon

5356 generally doesn't wet out as nice as 4043 but also works for all including 50 series
again there are alloys for special circumstance but this is generally good to go.

Also some nice TIG Gloves I use short cuff TILLMAN 24D or 25B good feel etc.

Get a TIG Finger the regular and the larger one but don't get wrapped around HAVING to use it...

ARGON for 99.9% of what you will be doing, don't worry about Helium mix until down the road a ways...

I'd most assuredly get a better pedal and I did, for both machines it is most important to BE COMFORTABLE, if you are fighting the pedal you can't be comfortable.

I'd also go to a 25' torch lead and get a stubby cup kit for the 17, and a 9 series torch with a superflex lead... lighter, smaller will work for 90% of what you will be doing, I went water cooled with a 20 series the others WILL get too hot to handle... on long runs... Get a BUNCH of coupons cut and set to working with them... Good Luck and most importantly have fun.

Tungsten Size is irrelevant you can use 1/8 or 3/32 for everything it is all in how you grind it. I use 2% Lanthanated for everything, 3/32 sharper grind for thinner stuff.. you can weld gum wrappers (old alu ones) with 1/8" Tungsten.

 

[dr_clyde]

The basics have been mentioned, but I notice they have left out one of the most important details. Filler wire diameter.

I use 1/16" dia for almost everything. 3/32" is nice for thicker fillets and some more medium size work, and 1/8" is for when you're filling in a bevel or need a large multipass weld, typically.

Here is what I would keep on hand if I were you. Buy these in 1 lb containers until you know what you're gonna be welding. Then you can buy the 10lb boxes for better economy.

For Steel:
1/16" ER 70S-2
3/32" ER 70S-2

Stainless
.040" 308L
1/16" 308L
1/16" 309 (useful to get you out of a jam)

Aluminum 6000 series (most common)
1/16" 4043
3/32" 4043

Save the 5356 for a job when you know the base alloy is a 5000 series or if it will be anodized and the color needs to match, that's when to use 5356

Buy what you need as you need it. Silicon bronze is handy to have, as well as silvaloy 15 and Ni-99. Specialty stuff for sure, but you can weld copper, bronze, cast iron and other tricky stuff with these rods.

I keep on hand 3 or 4 diameters of the common alloys, but I'm a pro.

Bare bones, a home shop could do a lot with just 1/16" 70 S-2 and 1/16" 4043.

 

[kkroger]

The basics have been mentioned, but I notice they have left out one of the most important details. Filler wire diameter.

I use 1/16" dia for almost everything. 3/32" is nice for thicker fillets and some more medium size work, and 1/8" is for when you're filling in a bevel or need a large multipass weld, typically.

Here is what I would keep on hand if I were you. Buy these in 1 lb containers until you know what you're gonna be welding. Then you can buy the 10lb boxes for better economy.

For Steel:
1/16" ER 70S-2
3/32" ER 70S-2

Stainless
.040" 308L
1/16" 308L
1/16" 309 (useful to get you out of a jam)

Aluminum 6000 series (most common)
1/16" 4043
3/32" 4043

Save the 5356 for a job when you know the base alloy is a 5000 series or if it will be anodized and the color needs to match, that's when to use 5356

Buy what you need as you need it. Silicon bronze is handy to have, as well as silvaloy 15 and Ni-99. Specialty stuff for sure, but you can weld copper, bronze, cast iron and other tricky stuff with these rods.

I keep on hand 3 or 4 diameters of the common alloys, but I'm a pro.

Bare bones, a home shop could do a lot with just 1/16" 70 S-2 and 1/16" 4043.

True enough for the Mild and Stainless but I generally just use 3/32 for aluminum, I don't weld a lot of pop cans or gum wrappers... or Aluminum Foil (I don't use filler metal for that though) But for most instances of aluminum that I encounter daily (not a Job shop but at my shop and even at home) nothing much less than .063 I use 3/32 Filler Metal and I kinda use 5356 for all of it... Strange...

Also forgot to mention that the "Vulcan" Brand filler from Harbor freight actually works fairly WELL and a pound is $8.99 in the stores, I had to drop in there to get some 4043 just the other day because I ran out and now UPS is holding my 10# box hostage... Fuggers... as well as some other items been out for delivery every day for a week but no UPS truck makes an appearance... Should have had it delivered to my work I'm half a mile from the Depot and I get 3 or sometimes 4 deliveries a DAY... Anyway the HF rod is a cheap way to get your feet wet, OR head to the LWS and TELL them you are a newbie to TIG, a lot of times they will set you up with a few rods and maybe a couple tungstens to try out. Sharpening the tungsten is important use non aluminum oxide abrasives Zirconia or Diamond, I have a TechSouth Sharpie tungsten grinder (portable) works well but higher initial expense I've been told that the Harbor Freight $50 Saw Blade Grinder works pretty well. Watch some You Tube videos... you will get it pretty quick I am sure.

 

[Warrenator]

I agree with all the above. ER70S, silicon bronze, and 309 stainless. The 309 stainless can also be used to fix cast iron and to weld cast iron to steel. 1/16 size is good. The fatter stuff is also good because you have to feed less but then it doesn't melt as well and the puddle gets too big and argh! Blew through again.

I use the "medium" size tungsten for almost everything except aluminum, the fatter size is better there.

When I was starting I bought a box of 10 tungstens and sharpened them all so I could swap quickly if one got contaminated. The fastest cheapest most consistent way to sharpen tungstens is to chuck them into your handy cordless drill and spin them aganst a spinning grinder (bench, 4 1/2", anything that grinds) kinda like a pencil sharpener where the pencil is spinning too.

 

[dr_clyde]

True enough for the Mild and Stainless but I generally just use 3/32 for aluminum, I don't weld a lot of pop cans or gum wrappers... or Aluminum Foil (I don't use filler metal for that though) But for most instances of aluminum that I encounter daily (not a Job shop but at my shop and even at home) nothing much less than .063 I use 3/32 Filler Metal and I kinda use 5356 for all of it... Strange...

Aluminum can take a bigger rod, for sure. 3/32" would not be out of line for home shop welding, but it can be a bit big for sheet repairs.

You can do most everything with 5356, although 4043 is recommended for the 6000 alloys due to it being really hot short, and the 4043 has a little bit more ductility to avoid stuff like crater cracks.

For 3003 common sheet, it makes little difference. Most guys use 4043 because it is a little cheaper and has better puddle fluidity.

 

[dogdog]

hey since we are on this subject.

I have few # of weird specialty rods not sure what they are used for in real life...I will get a whole list tomorrow, but in the mean time. this is from memory.

ER90S
R60

 

[dr_clyde]

90S (90,000psi) is a higher tensile steel rod, used for some specialty steels that need the higher tensile filler.

I believe R60 is oxy-acetylene rod? But I could be mistaken on that.

 

[Lelandwelds]

filler rods dependents on the material you are welding...



not all aluminium are weldable.

2000 and 7000 series aluminums are mostly not weldable. All others pretty much can be welded.

Mild er70 you can use S2 or S3 or S6 (MIG Wire works fine it is S6 which makes it wet out nice)

.

ER70S-2. has the most deoxidizers to clean puddle
ER70S-3. Has the least

I agree with all the above. ER70S, silicon bronze, and 309 stainless. The 309 stainless can also be used to fix cast iron and to weld cast iron to steel. 1/16 size is good. The fatter stuff is also good because you have to feed less but then it doesn't melt as well and the puddle gets too big and argh! Blew through again.

I use the "medium" size tungsten for almost everything except aluminum, the fatter size is better there.

Repairs to cast iron is usually prefered in this order. Cast iron filler, nickle (or ferronickle), SS, copper alloys.

Low carbon grades , ER308L or ER309L, are not actually "required" but cost difference is minimal

ER90S
R60

ER90S-2 is high strength, hi deoxidizer
RG45 is copper flashed mild steel oxy acetylene rod (common on muffler work)
RG60 is bare higher carbon oxy acet rod

I wouldnt get hung up on tungsten chemistry or size. Use one big enough to carry current and grind a point. Aluminum likes a big ball or larger diameter. 2% thoria is hated by the govt and is on the way out.

Purge is nice. Passivating or scotchbrite works too. Argon has easier manual starts. Even 2% helium really wakes up your arc.

Silicon bronze is cool stuff. Even works as a stick rod. Buy some ER312 or ER310 for dissimilar steels. (Handy, handy stuff)

Find a good local independent welding supply and build a good relationship for best quality and price.

 

[GarageGuy89]

Picked up a beginner ac/D.C. Tig machine (ahp 200) to cut my teeth on. Have a new helmet on order, a miller digital Elite (miller had 50/60 dollar rebates on some models if your wallet is a little heavy) to replace my cheapie tractor supply one.

I have a couple friends willing to show me the basics but I know I'll have my work cut out for me.

Been looking at filler material and wanted to know what I should have on hand for general use. Mainly looking at carbon and aluminum for now. Also what seems to be your most commonly used tungsten size. Thanks in advance!

Feel free to chime in with any more advice!

Was in your shoes 2 years ago.

Bought the following:
70S2 (people recommended for less clean material)
70S6 (seems to be most common for steel)
4043 (seems to be most common for aluminum)
ER312 (does SS, but also works for SS to non SS, and found some article about how versatile it is with fixing tools)

Stubby gas lens kit with all the different tungsten sizes, 0.40 up to 1/8th. Only use 3/32 or larger because they are 100x easier to grind. 1/16th and smaller bend at full length on the grinder and just don't have the patience for it anymore.

Found arc zone to be the cheapest for the amount I bought, and ebay for the lens and tungsten.

Now all I use is 3/32 tungsten and 1/16th 70S-2 filler...A weld that requires larger diameters gets 6011 stick welded because I just don't have the patience for tigging it.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Was in your shoes 2 years ago.

Bought the following:
70S2 (people recommended for less clean material)
70S6 (seems to be most common for steel)
4043 (seems to be most common for aluminum)
ER312 (does SS, but also works for SS to non SS, and found some article about how versatile it is with fixing tools)

Stubby gas lens kit with all the different tungsten sizes, 0.40 up to 1/8th. Only use 3/32 or larger because they are 100x easier to grind. 1/16th and smaller bend at full length on the grinder and just don't have the patience for it anymore.

Found arc zone to be the cheapest for the amount I bought, and ebay for the lens and tungsten.

Now all I use is 3/32 tungsten and 1/16th 70S-2 filler...A weld that requires larger diameters gets 6011 stick welded because I just don't have the patience for tigging it.

Man, I hope everybody makes it to where you are now. I agreed completely right up until you called out E6011!

 

[jonesg]

Picked up a beginner ac/D.C. Tig machine (ahp 200) to cut my teeth on. Have a new helmet on order, a miller digital Elite (miller had 50/60 dollar rebates on some models if your wallet is a little heavy) to replace my cheapie tractor supply one.

I have a couple friends willing to show me the basics but I know I'll have my work cut out for me.

Been looking at filler material and wanted to know what I should have on hand for general use. Mainly looking at carbon and aluminum for now. Also what seems to be your most commonly used tungsten size. Thanks in advance!

Feel free to chime in with any more advice!

I would let your friends teach you, it's better in person.

 

[buildyourown]

Burn a mile of er70-s2 before you even look at anything else. 3/32" tungsten will do everything from 70-220 amp without a hicup. Filler size is a bit of a personal thing. 1/16-and .045 are my most used for steel.

ER312 is my goto for dissimilar stainless. 3/32 - 4043 will cover the majority of aluminum work.

 

[mds5951]

Thanks for all the help guys. I do plan on letting my friends show me the basics, unfortunately time is a premium with everyone so I know most of this time spent learning will be me swearing and throwing coupons and stuck tungsten across the shop LOL!

I realize tig is an art and it take a lot of practice before your welds look good and are structurally sound. Luckily my job lays me off summers and winters so I'll have the time to invest in this new skill


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[mds5951]

While we're going at it let's talk tank size. I know they come in all different sizes.... I was thinking I should get either 80 or 125 cuft.... also should I buy or lease? Thanks again and sorry for the n00b questions


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[dogdog]

gas wise gets the largest you can OWN, and fit in your truck /car and shop area.... you won't believe how fast the gas go sometimes, especially at the wrong time. But you also have to consider portability if you plan to move that machine,.... like to another site etc. Make sure it is own, not rental... some LWCO does rental sort of.... means they don't charge you for any monthly rental, but they slap their own local on to their tanks they sold you, and only fill their tanks... but that is different from area to area, truer in area that has more than one LWCO in close proximity, they don't want to receive stolen tanks I guess.

one thing about dealing with LWCO, not sure about your area. Ask them to show you their 80cf and 125cf tank so you get a visual.... at least in my area... not so honest ppl, I got suckered and sold an upgrade from 80CF as a 125CF then when I go for exchange a year or two later when I needed, I got back the 80CF, of cause I lost the receipt that they sold me a 125CF. I think they just sold me a nicer looking cylinder that looked just a bit taller, then on that "upgrade" deal. Anyways that was the rant sort of, but you should look out for.

 

[dr_clyde]

I would buy the biggest capacity cylinder you can handle. The gas is cheaper per cubic ft and you don't have to swap cylinders as often.

Around here a cylinder 330 ft cylinder costs around $300 for the cylinder and I pay $35 or so for the argon.

 

[AngryBeaver]

I would buy the biggest capacity cylinder you can handle. The gas is cheaper per cubic ft and you don't have to swap cylinders as often.

Around here a cylinder 330 ft cylinder costs around $300 for the cylinder and I pay $35 or so for the argon.

DAMN... its like 110ish here for a 330...

all the chain gas supply houses want a lease on that size cylinder.. there is only one place I can take mine since I own it..




OP, listen to these other guys wisely...

I bought my Tig strictly for aluminum and chromoly cages.

I weld a lot of ****** cast alum Cobra and Shelby blowers and intake manifolds.

I have 4043 for clean alum sheet but most use 5356 on the dirty cast. it doesn't lay as nice and pretty as 4043 on clean sheet.


Get a stubby gas lense kit. when welding alum, especially used and dirty stuff cleaning is important. grind and scuff, then acetone the parts, and the filler rods.

welding clean sheet aluminum is easy peasy. start off with mild steel first in my opinion. i use 3/32 tungsten for almost everything except super thin sheet. I use 1/16 filler rod in mild and SS, then 3/32 in aluminum, but most of my alum is very thick, requires extra heat to flow the puddle properly. 1/16 would be better filler for thinner alum.

70s is all I used for mild steel. 70s also works for welding SS to mild steel. so does a normal mig gun...

I have 308,309,312 and 316 rods. 308 is going to be the most common used. 312 is great for welding two dis similar SS, or SS to mild steel.

312 is also great for ductile iron/malleable iron repairs. it has a lot more Chromium in it that helps from cracking on the minimal carbon content irons.

there are a lot of welding snobs that will tell you, you have to do this or use this rod or blah... end of the day... finger time is what you need. its not hard. you're welds will look like fried dog **** for awhile. most times when starting on Tig guys use to much heat. Weld.com has a bunch of techincal charts and data to help out beginners. they also have quite a few videos on youtube. but nothing beats hands on help, if that makes sense.

Good luck

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I always keep on hand:
ER70S2
308 stainless
309 stainless
316 stainless
4043 aluminum
5356 aluminum
silicon bronze
aluminum bronze

90% of the time using 2% lanthanated tungsten
other 10% of the time 1.5% ceriated

 

[dogdog]

DAMN... its like 110ish here for a 330...
..........

Good luck

$110.... that is cheap..... so what do you use for chrome moly tubes ?

 

[kkroger]

I would buy the biggest capacity cylinder you can handle. The gas is cheaper per cubic ft and you don't have to swap cylinders as often.

Around here a cylinder 330 ft cylinder costs around $300 for the cylinder and I pay $35 or so for the argon.

Nobody around here KC MO will SELL a 330, 80 and 100 are the largest they will sell, that said my LWS will bring me 80s any time I need em and swap me on the spot wherever I am. I just sign for $20 worth of Argon ea... Piece of cake. the larger bottles don't work as well in my garage. at the shop I use the bigger bottles but they don't fit on the TIG cart.... Have a 330 chained to a post and a long hose to the machine... it doesn't get around much.

 

[dr_clyde]

I'm fortunate. My welding supply is awesome to deal with. As far as I know, they won't lease a cylinder. Short term rent or purchase only on all the things they carry. On the odd times I've needed a special gas, they just charge me for the gas, and I just return the empty cylinder when I'm done. They are real reasonable on gas prices, free delivery via salesman or semi. I only physically go to the welding supply when I am in a jam and need it now.

Over the years I've bought a few cylinders. I think I'm up to 8 330 argon /c25, 2 or 3 of the 120 or whatever the next step down is, 2 330 oxygen, 2 8" acetylene, 1 12" acetylene, a couple 100lb propane and a few others. I use a lot of gas...

 

[kkroger]

My O/A which I pretty much NEVER use are a 330 Oxy and a 12" Acetylene. I can trade them out at whim, I bought them from a guy YEARS ago... Used one fill on Acetylene so far, and 5 or 6 Oxy... I keep 2 80s of C25 at home and 2 80s of Argon, at the shop I have much much smaller Torch bottles but no torch! They are LEASED, I'll probably turn those in pretty soon since I never use them, a 330 of Argon and a 330 of C25... I mostly just weld Aluminum and occasionally steel in the shop, I do most of my weldering at home believe it or no... in Alu I generally don't get over 1/4" thick at the shop, 3/16 or 1/8 5052 for the most part. Structures for Signage and some other stuff, Like a lighted Art Wall (two sided from CorTen Material) with 1/4" Angle Iron Structure, Water Feature Basins both supply and Catch. Architectural metalwork etc.

 

[turtl631]

This is a really helpful thread. I'm researching an AC TIG machine for home garage use, primarily on aluminum but also steel, stainless, probably even some cast iron etc. Generally it seems a few sizes of 2% lanthanated tungsten, 70S & 4043 filler will get you well on your way. Now I just have to pick a machine and spend some time practicing...

 

[kkroger]

This is a really helpful thread. I'm researching an AC TIG machine for home garage use, primarily on aluminum but also steel, stainless, probably even some cast iron etc. Generally it seems a few sizes of 2% lanthanated tungsten, 70S & 4043 filler will get you well on your way. Now I just have to pick a machine and spend some time practicing...

Truthfully ONE size of Tungsten will do you, 3/32 or 1/8 seriously it is all in grinding it, long and pointy, short and blunt etc...

Comfort will do a LOT, for you Ways to prop, I am using HF Magnetic Indicator Stands with a piece of 3/8 SS Rod spanning between for a nice "Adjustable" prop, since you don't need pressure just a place to rest, the SS Rod will let you slide nicely to get smooth movement, comfort, less extraneous movement, less shaking and if you span long enough, also a place to prop your feed hand too. When PRACTICING be sure you practice with BOTH hands... Right and Left Handed, Torch and Feed... Out of position etc... as soon as you get the hang of it and get the bead you like, practice all the HARD stuff....

 

[dr_clyde]

As far as tungsten is concerned, I use 2% ceriated for everything. 99% of the time I use 1/8" electrodes. Once in a blue moon I'll get out the 1/16" stuff for the super detailed work.

1/8" is very durable. It lasts longer and has a broad range of current. I use it all the time for 35 amp stainless sanitary tube work, up to 250 amp AC for aluminum.