Beginner welder with Circuit Question

[BigTicket]

I recently purchased an ArcCaptain Mig200 multi-process welder. I am learning to weld and will more than likely take a welding class at some point. A good friend told me to just get a welder and learn. Obviously, I won't be welding trailer hitches anytime soon, but for around-the-house and little projects, I think I can pick it up. I was farting around yesterday and decided to weld me up a 5 gallon bucket holder in the bed of my truck to carry used oil to the dump station. I used #4 rebar, and it turned out OK.

As far as the circuit question, I have three options: 20A, 30A, and 50A. The welder is 110/220V. I can't determine the maximum draw from the welder, but I think it is 30 amps. I started out welding on 110V on the 20A circuit. I was doing flux core on some welding coupons for practice. It tripped one time. I am confident it was my fault because the wire got stuck without an arc on the metal and immediately tripped the breaker. Other than that, I was having no issues. My question is, should I just weld off the 220V/50A circuit all the time since I have it?

Thanks.

Chris

 

[The Cobbler]

I would say yes. less nuisance trips

 

[RPH]

 

[Shiftless]

That’s a useful project to get started with learning to weld, a skill that I regrettably never learned.
One thing I might add though… those exposed sharp ends seem dangerous. You might gouge your arm open and bleed all over or worse than that, scratch through your bed liner and expose bare metal which would rust!

Get some of these.

 

[walta]

What would Tim Taylor do ? RRR RRR RRR

Walta

 

[sparky 1971]

Stick with the 50.

 

[micromind]

I would install the 50 amp circuit. It will easily handle that welder and many more that you might get down the road.

If you actually need a 20 or 30, you can replace the 50 amp breaker with a smaller one.

 

[mike93lx]

50a 240v. You can feed it with #10 wire (probably even #12)

6-50 receptacle, should match the plug on the welder

 

[wyliesdiesels]

another vote for 50a receptacle and circuit

 

[N_Jay]

There is an excepting in the NEC that allows a welder to use a 50A 220V connection on a 30 Amp circuit.
Welders don't pull their maximum very long, and breakers don't trip that fast.

Your wire MUST meet the current ampacity of the breaker, so if you use a 50A breaker you need to wire it for 50A.

 

[mike93lx]

Your wire MUST meet the current ampacity of the breaker, so if you use a 50A breaker you need to wire it for 50A.

Nope.

You can derate based on the duty cycle. Most home use welders can easily get by on a #12, but I like to use #10

It does however make it a "welder use only" circuit

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There is an excepting in the NEC that allows a welder to use a 50A 220V connection on a 30 Amp circuit.
Welders don't pull their maximum very long, and breakers don't trip that fast.

Your wire MUST meet the current ampacity of the breaker, so if you use a 50A breaker you need to wire it for 50A.

incorrect.

see T630.11A

 

[N_Jay]

Nope.

You can derate based on the duty cycle. Most home use welders can easily get by on a #12, but I like to use #10

It does however make it a "welder use only" circuit

On a 50a breaker?

 

[mike93lx]

On a 50a breaker?

Yes

Ampacity of Supply Conductors | UpCodes

Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.

up.codes

There is a multiplier for calculating the requirements of the supply conductors

 

[wyliesdiesels]

On a 50a breaker?

Yes get your code book out and go to article 630.

 

[zendriver]

50A is all I use for welder and plasma cutter both dual voltage.

No need to mess around.

 

[no704]

Use the 22v 50a if you allready have it. When welding on any vehicle it is a good practice to at a minimum disconnect both battery terminals and short them together.

 

[micromind]

Even though it's code compliant to use smaller wire than the breaker size for a welder, I have never done it and never will.

Suppose you use #12 on a 50amp breaker to a 50 amp receptacle and the next person (or even you) plugs a 10KW electric heater (42 amps) in to the welder receptacle. How long until the #12 catches on fire..........

 

[sparky 1971]

Even though it's code compliant to use smaller wire than the breaker size for a welder, I have never done it and never will.

Suppose you use #12 on a 50amp breaker to a 50 amp receptacle and the next person (or even you) plugs a 10KW electric heater (42 amps) in to the welder receptacle. How long until the #12 catches on fire..........

I agree. Outside of my own welder that has #10, I always use #8 for a 6-50. For all I know that receptacle will be doing double duty for an EV next week.

 

[The Cobbler]

Actually I think the undersizing a welding circuit rule for residential should be re thought for previous mentioned reasons . Commercial, probably OK as it's more likely a qualified electrician would make any changes there ...
it's very easy for someone to repurpose a welding circuit not knowing they are overloading it.
For my offshore mig welder that is rated @ 20 amp ,120volt, I use a 10g extension cord if I'm doing any amount of welding. I noticed the 12 g cord I was using gets HOT , and it will pop a 20 amp breaker too .

 

[mike93lx]

Even though it's code compliant to use smaller wire than the breaker size for a welder, I have never done it and never will.

Suppose you use #12 on a 50amp breaker to a 50 amp receptacle and the next person (or even you) plugs a 10KW electric heater (42 amps) in to the welder receptacle. How long until the #12 catches on fire..........

I dont worry about the next guy, but I do appreciate the concern. There is no harm in using the larger wire beyond the effort and cost of the initial install.

 

[BigTicket]

Thank you. I didn't even see that as a Chinese plug symbol.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Even though it's code compliant to use smaller wire than the breaker size for a welder, I have never done it and never will.

Suppose you use #12 on a 50amp breaker to a 50 amp receptacle and the next person (or even you) plugs a 10KW electric heater (42 amps) in to the welder receptacle. How long until the #12 catches on fire..........

the same could happen to any circuit by any future idiot. Ive seen 30a zinsco breakers installed on general use branch circuits with #14 NM-b from the 70s. new homeowner plugged in a bunch of space heaters because the furnace died and the wire ended up melting at one of the receptacles. breaker never tripped

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

My question is, should I just weld off the 220V/50A circuit all the time since I have it?

That is what I did a couple of months ago in my garage. I used #8 in EMT for a 6-50R to run a MIG 180.

As a bonus, I understand after discussing the choice of wiring and receptacle with the good folks on this forum, that convince store pizza ovens use the same receptacle and need #8, so I am ready for that as well in my garage

 

[N_Jay]

Thanks for the update. I'll stick with the 30A breaker on 10G wire and a (labeled) 50A connector.
Hasn't tripped vet, but have not been through all the modes on my Yes Welder 250.

 

[nadogail]

Because I could afford it, I pulled 8 gauge wire from a 50 amp breaker to feed the one 220 volt circuit in my workshop. The 5 KW garage heater is tapped off this same circuit with a 30 Amp fused disconnect. The ten foot tap rule has been my friend.

 

[u2slow]

I find breakers really tolerant of inrush and my own limitations of welding for a minute at a time; and fiddling for 10 mins in between. I do 95% of my welding on 20-30A circuits.

 

[TractorJeff]

A dual voltage machine for the price you paid for it. Wire for full capacity! As your welding skill increases, the projects will get larger and the full capacity will be needed! Setup a good 10ga 50ft power cord for those jobs where you need to go "mobile". I take my Mig over to my buddies shop occasionally and take an 8ga 240v cord because his 50 amp outlet is on the wrong side of the building.

 

[KYCountryboy]

Nope.

You can derate based on the duty cycle. Most home use welders can easily get by on a #12, but I like to use #10

It does however make it a "welder use only" circuit

If I'm going to have something capable of pulling 50A, even for a short period of time...I'll wire it capable to handle the load. 6 guage for 50 amp 240 circuit. Residential ovens (50 amp) are wired with 6-3 wire.

 

[mike93lx]

If I'm going to have something capable of pulling 50A, even for a short period of time...I'll wire it capable to handle the load. 6 guage for 50 amp 240 circuit. Residential ovens (50 amp) are wired with 6-3 wire.

You can do whatever you want at your house.

Doesn't change that code allows for sometbing different

 

[KYCountryboy]

You can do whatever you want at your house.

Doesn't change that code allows for sometbing different

Then there should be a receptacle rated for the #10 or #12 wire capacity that is installed. A larger receptacle invites a larger load. What happens when the property changes possession? New owners will be ignorant of the situation.

 

[sparky 1971]

If I'm going to have something capable of pulling 50A, even for a short period of time...I'll wire it capable to handle the load. 6 guage for 50 amp 240 circuit. Residential ovens (50 amp) are wired with 6-3 wire.

People that use 6/3 for residential ovens are a different breed of hard workin' mutha-effers. I use 8/3 with a 40 amp breaker for all of them, my own included. I have #10 to my welder, but use #8 for other peoples welder circuits if it's 8/2 it gets a 40 amp breaker, THWN gets a 50 but that's because there usually isn't a welder on site yet and I don't trust people to buy what they say they will. The only things residential wise that get 6/3 and a 50 amp breaker are campers and EV's.

 

[mike93lx]

Then there should be a receptacle rated for the #10 or #12 wire capacity that is installed. A larger receptacle invites a larger load. What happens when the property changes possession? New owners will be ignorant of the situation.

We have been through this. You are welcome to worry about the next guy. I do my work for me, and to code. That includes labeling the receptacle for welder use only

And a 6-50 will be labeled for a range, often #10-4

 

[sparky 1971]

Then there should be a receptacle rated for the #10 or #12 wire capacity that is installed.

240 volt welders come with a 6-50P, while I agree with you, the NEC says differently.

A larger receptacle invites a larger load. What happens when the property changes possession? New owners will be ignorant of the situation.

And that is why I agree, but that's on the new owners. It's really no different that someone sticking an oversized breaker in because of tripping. And, before the property changes hands there is usually a home inspection, if an inspector sees #12 or #10 on a 50 amp breaker, he's gonna do cartwheels because he's so proud of himself for finding what he sees as a code violation. He will convince the new owners they are surely going to die the first night there so they will insist that the breaker and receptacle match the wire size.

 

[sparky 1971]

We have been through this. You are welcome to worry about the next guy. I do my work for me, and to code. That includes labeling the receptacle for welder use only

And a 6-50 will generally (always?) be rated for #10-4

If you were to install a welder circuit this afternoon would you include a GFCI breaker? Be honest.

 

[mike93lx]

If you were to install a welder circuit this afternoon would you include a GFCI breaker? Be honest.

No, because I only install welder circuits inside of dwelling units and VA is on 2020



But, honestly, you probably got me on that one

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If I'm going to have something capable of pulling 50A, even for a short period of time...I'll wire it capable to handle the load. 6 guage for 50 amp 240 circuit. Residential ovens (50 amp) are wired with 6-3 wire.

Got news for you. #8 THWN is rated for 50a

 

[Bert_]

If I'm going to have something capable of pulling 50A, even for a short period of time...I'll wire it capable to handle the load. 6 guage for 50 amp 240 circuit. Residential ovens (50 amp) are wired with 6-3 wire.

People that use 6/3 for residential ovens are a different breed of hard workin' mutha-effers. I use 8/3 with a 40 amp breaker for all of them, my own included. I have #10 to my welder, but use #8 for other peoples welder circuits if it's 8/2 it gets a 40 amp breaker, THWN gets a 50 but that's because there usually isn't a welder on site yet and I don't trust people to buy what they say they will. The only things residential wise that get 6/3 and a 50 amp breaker are campers and EV's.

Yup. I do the same for a kitchen range, 8-3. I've seen a couple wired with #10 and 30A breaker. According to the homeowner, it's never tripped.

My welder plug in my garage is a hack job. #12 Romex with about 2 open air splices. I do turn off the breaker when I'm not using it

 

[sparky 1971]

No, because I only install welder circuits inside of dwelling units and VA is on 2020



But, honestly, you probably got me on that one

Taken straight from the 2020 NEC

210.8(A) Dwelling units. All 125 through 250 volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) bathrooms
(2) garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use.
(3) outdoors

and it goes on and on and on, kind of takes the fun out of it....


But, the powers that be in IA took the words "through 250" out of it.

If it makes you feel better about being a hack, I don't have any GFCI protection in my garage and only in a couple of places in the house.

 

[sparky 1971]

Yup. I do the same for a kitchen range, 8-3. I've seen a couple wired with #10 and 30A breaker. According to the homeowner, it's never tripped.

My welder plug in my garage is a hack job. #12 Romex with about 2 open air splices. I do turn off the breaker when I'm not using it

About a year ago I had a service call for what may have been a tripped breaker for a range in an apartment. It was a Pushmatic so there wasn't a way to tell if it was tripped or off, and upon questioning the tenant, she had been out of town for a couple of weeks and may have turned the breaker off but couldn't remember. The panel was in the kitchen and only about two feet away from the range so I threw the 'ol amp probe on the circuit and started turning on burners and with all four burners and the oven on it got up to 27 amps. The breaker didn't trip so I decided she must have turned it off and told the maintenance man to call me if there were more issues.