Beginning machine work help

[Shadowdog500]

Thanks gents, I’m super excited to get my lathe.
I was was watching a series by Aussie Shed which put a bit of fear into me.

He remachined the V-groove (I’m sure there’s a proper term for this) on the cross slide so it better fit the way, spent literally tens of hours sanding the cross slide on the ways to get everything fitted together.

I was thinking “crikey, I have no ability to mill anything, how will I get this thing into shape?”

He may be trying to achieve a very high level of precision and accuracy which is likely beyond my ability to use. At least at this early stage in my learning.

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He is doing far more than you need to do at this time. You are just starting out on the learning process. Set it up as-is or with a few simple tweaks that were mentioned here and start using the lathe to learn the basics of using a lathe properly. Just learning to sharpen HSS bits is worthwhile. Here is a good video of sharpening HSS bits

Also be sure to watch the mrpete2222 lathe training videos on YouTube. Etc.
I see you are in BC. Track down AvE and have him give you some pointers. Joking of course, the location of his bat cave in BC is super secret.

As your skill progress you may want to tweak the lathe more and more to the level that he is doing, or you may want to move up to a different lathe at that point.

The one analogy I can think of is, years ago I got into accuracy shooting and a friend bought a very expensive +$2,0000 sniper rifle because he thought it would make him a better shot.(it didn’t). I just had my $500 deer rifle (a Remington 700BDL in .308) with a used Tasco scope that I bought at a flea market. I decided that I needed a +$2,000 sniper rifle too so I talked that the gunsmith who I bought my deer rifle from to order a sniper rifle. The gunsmith told me that you don’t buy a $2000 sniper rifle until you can shoot beyond the accuracy of your $500 deer rifle. I never did get the +$2,000 sniper rifle and I can still outshoot my friend With the sniper rifle using my Remington deer rifle with a used Tasco scope.

You are just starting out and probably won’t be machining beyond the accuracy of your $500 mini lathe for a while.

 

[DavidR8]

Thanks @shadowdog500, I sort of thought he was going to the extremes.

Appreciate the link to the video, made a lot of sense seeing a tool bit so large. Helped me understand the relationship between the angles.

And yes, I realize that my machining skills are non-existent at the moment.

 

[DavidR8]

Well the lathe arrived today in an impressively stout crate. That’s actually wood. No cardboard box here.

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[Threadkiller]

congrats on the lathe....more pics please..

 

[DavidR8]

Here are some pics.
Very impressed with the crate.








Need to correct this misaligned gear.


Except for this casting flaw the ways are very well machined.



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[Shadowdog500]

That looks good, but I’m surprised that they sold it with that casting flaw. I agree that it shouldn’t affect things. I’m also wondering how the paint was perfect next to the way with the exception of the missing cast section. You would think that the paint would have got into the hole in the casting. I’m wondering if that piece broke off after it was painted.

The gear being crooked also seems odd to me since the change gear adjustment plate should be square with the machine once the bolt that holds it in place is tightened.

 

[DavidR8]

That looks good, but I’m surprised that they sold it with that casting flaw. I agree that it shouldn’t affect things. I’m also wondering how the paint was perfect next to the way with the exception of the missing cast section. You would think that the paint would have got into the hole in the casting. I’m wondering if that piece broke off after it was painted.

The gear being crooked also seems odd to me since the change gear adjustment plate should be square with the machine once the bolt that holds it in place is tightened.

I actually looked for a piece of paint in the crate and the plastic bag that it came in. Nothing found. I suspect it came off after it went through QA. It was underneath the cross slide so maybe the paint was there and then flaked off.

I’m going to investigate the gears as I think the issue is that the not at the bottom is too thick.


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[larry_g]

Here are some pics.


Need to correct this misaligned gear.

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Either that arm is bored crooked or it is just slid on the cast boss to far. Lets hope that it is just slid on to far.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[DavidR8]

Either that arm is bored crooked or it is just slid on the cast boss to far. Lets hope that it is just slid on to far.

lg
no neat sig line

Yeah I haven't had time to investigate further.
If the bar is bored crooked that's going to be a real pain to correct.

 

[DavidR8]

Does anyone here have experience with a Brown & Sharpe No. 0 turret lathe?

Yoy might want to ask in the main fabrication forum.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Pull the change gears off and see why it is misaligned.

That change gear adjustment plate is a stamped part that should be flat.
Here is the part.

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1364

 

[Shadowdog500]

Looking at the enlarged photo again it almost looks like the end of the change gear adjustment plate is wedged against the front of the change gear mount. This shouldn’t be possible if the change gears were adjusted properly. Can you post several photos of the change gear setup at different angles.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[DavidR8]

Looking at the enlarged photo again it almost looks like the end of the change gear adjustment plate is wedged against the front of the change gear mount. This shouldn’t be possible if the change gears were adjusted properly. Can you post several photos of the change gear setup at different angles.

Thanks,
Chris

I'll take a closer look tonight and snap some pics.

 

[DavidR8]

I pulled the cover off the gearcase tonight.
The change gear plate is flat.

I think the problem is that the pivot for the change gear adjustment plate is not perpendicular to the plate.

The location of the pivot on the base is not machined flat, it's just rough cast iron. If the pivot isn't tightened down the plate is flat.

I think I can hit the base with a grinder and get it closer to flat. Barring that I might have to shim it out. Seems a bit cheesy so happy to hear other views on how to improve.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I pulled the cover off the gearcase tonight.
The change gear plate is flat.

I think the problem is that the pivot for the change gear adjustment plate is not perpendicular to the plate.

The location of the pivot on the base is not machined flat, it's just rough cast iron. If the pivot isn't tightened down the plate is flat.

I think I can hit the base with a grinder and get it closer to flat. Barring that I might have to shim it out. Seems a bit cheesy so happy to hear other views on how to improve.

Your photos don’t show.

 

[matt_i]

I think I can hit the base with a grinder and get it closer to flat. Barring that I might have to shim it out. Seems a bit cheesy so happy to hear other views on how to improve.

I would recommend the File over the Grinder when tuning machinery unless a gross amount has to be taken off, and then I would finish with the File.

It seems like that pivot locates on an ID/bore....and if that's so, no amount of grinding is going to fix it. Arbor shims plus bending the arm to be perpendicular to the ID/bore would be more along the lines of how I would attempt to repair it.

 

[DavidR8]

Your photos don’t show.

I think it's fixed now

 

[DavidR8]

I would recommend the File over the Grinder when tuning machinery unless a gross amount has to be taken off, and then I would finish with the File.

It seems like that pivot locates on an ID/bore....and if that's so, no amount of grinding is going to fix it. Arbor shims plus bending the arm to be perpendicular to the ID/bore would be more along the lines of how I would attempt to repair it.

Thanks your advice is well taken.

The pivot does locate on an ID/bore. The problem lies in the fact that the stud which locks it in place is not parallel to the bore so when the plate is tightened down it is skewed out of plane.

More investigation is definitely needed on my part.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Thanks your advice is well taken.

The pivot does locate on an ID/bore. The problem lies in the fact that the stud which locks it in place is not parallel to the bore so when the plate is tightened down it is skewed out of plane.

More investigation is definitely needed on my part.

I don’t see your new pictures but looking at the enlarged photo in the earlier post I think I know what you mean. The nut that tightens onto the stud at the arced section is what is supposed to hold the plate in plane. If the stud is crooked the plate will be out of plane. Is the threaded hole in the side of the lathe that that the stud screws into drilled crooked?

 

[The Cobbler]

Your photos don’t show.

I think it's fixed now

for imgur, you need to remove the "S" from "HTTPS" in your link for the photos to show on here

 

[larry_g]

I pulled the cover off the gearcase tonight.
The change gear plate is flat.

I think the problem is that the pivot for the change gear adjustment plate is not perpendicular to the plate.

The location of the pivot on the base is not machined flat, it's just rough cast iron. If the pivot isn't tightened down the plate is flat.

I think I can hit the base with a grinder and get it closer to flat. Barring that I might have to shim it out. Seems a bit cheesy so happy to hear other views on how to improve.

pictures

 

[DavidR8]

for imgur, you need to remove the "S" from "HTTPS" in your link for the photos to show on here

Thank you!


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[Shadowdog500]

Thanks Larry! I can see clearly now!

Pull the stud out and see if the hole is drilled crooked.

If it is I’d probably be calling the seller. Between that and a piece of the casting missing I’d be more than a little upset. The one I bought from Cummings was perfect in and out and just needed a little tweaking. Missing parts of the casting and misdrilled stud holes are beyond a little tweaking.

 

[DavidR8]

I think it is likely either crooked or poorly machined because when it's not snugged up tight to the casting I can make the gears align. But if I tighten it up to the casting it gradually goes out of plane.

One thought I had was to drill and tap a new hole that is perpendicular to the plate.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I think it is likely either crooked or poorly machined because when it's not snugged up tight to the casting I can make the gears align. But if I tighten it up to the casting it gradually goes out of plane.

One thought I had was to drill and tap a new hole that is perpendicular to the plate.

I wonder if you could make a bevel washer so it stays aligned when tightened?

Could you screw a bolt through from the back to use as a stud so you do t have to worry about the threads pulling? You have a lathe so an aluminum stand off nut could be your first lathe project.

 

[DavidR8]

I wonder if you could make a bevel washer so it stays aligned when tightened?

Could you screw a bolt through from the back to use as a stud so you do t have to worry about the threads pulling? You have a lathe so an aluminum stand off nut could be your first lathe project.

Wait, what? Use the lathe to fix the lathe?
All kidding aside, yes I think a bolt from the back with a standoff could be the ticket. I don't think it needs to be too fancy, just functional.

Interestingly, YouTube'er Adventures With a Small Lathe has exactly the same problem and hasn't come up with a solution yet.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Wait, what? Use the lathe to fix the lathe?
All kidding aside, yes I think a bolt from the back with a standoff could be the ticket. I don't think it needs to be too fancy, just functional.

Interestingly, YouTube'er Adventures With a Small Lathe has exactly the same problem and hasn't come up with a solution yet.

I’m sure he is working on it. His lathe was the worst minilathe I’ve ever seen. He bought it at an extreme discount because of its rough condition.

BTW I won Emma’s competition the year before him and donated a lot of camera accessories to his prize package when he won the following year.

I’m going to rewatch his video to see how his stud is damaged and will assume yours is exactly the same.

 

[DavidR8]

Hijacking my own thread: what is Emma's competition?

 

[Shadowdog500]

Hijacking my own thread: what is Emma's competition?

Emma Ritson from the Emma’s spare room machine shop YouTube channel Came up with an annual toolmaking competition three years ago where the people competing had to make a short video of themselves making a tool. The winner would be announced at Stan Zinkosky’s Bar-Z summer bash.

Here is a link to Emma’s 2019 competition announcement.

I just looked at the video and didn’t see that his stud was loose. I don’t do Facebook, did he discuss this on Facebook?

 

[DavidR8]

Emma Ritson from the Emma’s spare room machine shop YouTube channel Came up with an annual toolmaking competition three years ago where the people competing had to make a short video of themselves making a tool. The winner would be announced at Stan Zinkosky’s Bar-Z summer bash.



Here is a link to Emma’s 2019 competition announcement.

I just looked at the video and didn’t see that his stud was loose. I don’t do Facebook, did he discuss this on Facebook?

On YouTube actually. You can see my comments at the top of the list on his unboxing video.


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[gte718p]

It probably will not help in this case, but before messing with anything around alignment on one of those mini lathes you really need need to bolt it down to a solid surface and level it. My last one , a HF special, was a pretzel. Just bolting it to a piece of butcher block straightened it out significantly.

Bolting it down may well change the orientation between those two parts. .

 

[Shadowdog500]

On YouTube actually. You can see my comments at the top of the list on his unboxing video.


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Found it! I originally thought you meant it I was in the video.


Wonder if you could use a helicoil or timesert kit to fix the tread alignment. Sounds like they are really loose threads.

Hard to know without seeing it first hand.

 

[PNWguy]

The best sub $2000 lathes I’ve seen in my area are the Atlas 618 posted above or a Grizzly 768.
Never seen a South Bend or Bridgeport machine for sale within 200 miles

This, times 1,000.

What people always fail to understand is that different parts of this huge country (and Canada) have vastly differences in industry. I also live in the Pacific Northwest, and we never had a manufacturing base here. The used machine tools available here wasn't brought in by a company, they are from guys like us. I searched for a year to find a decent deal on a lathe that wasn't a clapped out POS with an asking price of twice what it was worth.

When I found my new lathe, I sold a clapped out POS Atlas/Clausing for top dollar, to a guy who drove 3 hours, paid cash, never even turned it on, and didn't barter on the price.

A guy in BC is going to be in a similar situation. Want used forestry equipment? You won't find it in Kansas; you'll find it the PNW. Want a mill? You'll find it in Pittsburgh, not Oregon.

You'll hear some guys here yammering about "Chairman Mao", "you can find a Monarch 10EE for $1,000 on CL every day of the week" and other nonsense. But I've learned to ignore them.

 

[DavidR8]

This, times 1,000.

What people always fail to understand is that different parts of this huge country (and Canada) have vastly differences in industry. I also live in the Pacific Northwest, and we never had a manufacturing base here. The used machine tools available here wasn't brought in by a company, they are from guys like us. I searched for a year to find a decent deal on a lathe that wasn't a clapped out POS with an asking price of twice what it was worth.

When I found my new lathe, I sold a clapped out POS Atlas/Clausing for top dollar, to a guy who drove 3 hours, paid cash, never even turned it on, and didn't barter on the price.

A guy in BC is going to be in a similar situation. Want used forestry equipment? You won't find it in Kansas; you'll find it the PNW. Want a mill? You'll find it in Pittsburgh, not Oregon.

You'll hear some guys here yammering about "Chairman Mao", "you can find a Monarch 10EE for $1,000 on CL every day of the week" and other nonsense. But I've learned to ignore them.

On Vancouver Island the pickings are even more slim.
A Lantaine lathe of unknown vintage is $2500.
A really nice Myford ML7 is $2650.
A South Bend 9C in pieces is $1100


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[Shadowdog500]

Out of curiosity, what does a mini lathe cost in the pacific north west?

I am an East Coster and paid around $400 for my minilathe about 12 years ago at the local fire hall from a Cummings dealer.

I paid a total of $1,300 for my bigger lathe and mill that came with all of the tooling on Craigslist. The guy who owned the lathe and mill died and the son was clearing out the house.

 

[DavidR8]

I paid $455 USD/$598 CDN via EBay.
Local retail for a 7x12 is $1000.
A King brand 10x22 is $2550.

If I was prepared to take the plunge the Myford ML7 at $2650 was the best deal but I couldn’t swing that cash.

I figured that $400 less than local retail for a machine that’s likely from the same factory was a reasonable gamble.

You got a smoking deal on your machines!


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[Shadowdog500]

I paid $455 USD/$598 CDN via EBay.
Local retail for a 7x12 is $1000.
A King brand 10x22 is $2550.

If I prepared to take the plunge the Myford ML7 at $2650 was the best deal but I couldn’t swing that cash.

I figured that $400 less than local retail for a machine that’s likely from the same factory was a reasonable gamble.

You got a smoking deal on your machines!


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You got a good price on your minilathe as well which would make me a bit less upset about having to repair the misaligned stud.

 

[DavidR8]

You got a good price on your minilathe as well which would make me a bit less upset about having to repair the misaligned stud.

There’s a possibility that the retailer is going to throw some cash back in exchange for not filing a claim with eBay or giving him a bad review.
So I have some leverage


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[DavidR8]

Did more investigation tonight.
Shimming the stud out does indeed straighten it so the change plate is in the correct plane.
Problem is the small gear no longer meshes with the lead screw gear making it impossible to use.

Basically the hole is not straight and it’s also in the wrong place.

There is clearance to open the hole up and put in a bolt and nut and spacer which is what I might do.


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[Shadowdog500]

Did more investigation tonight.
Shimming the stud out does indeed straighten it so the change plate is in the correct plane.
Problem is the small gear no longer meshes with the lead screw gear making it impossible to use.

Basically the hole is not straight and it’s also in the wrong place.

There is clearance to open the hole up and put in a bolt and nut and spacer which is what I might do.


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The small gear meshing with the lead screw has nothing to do with that stud.

You mesh the small gear with the lead-screw by loosening the nut on the back of the axle hub slider and sliding the gears closer and further away from the lead-screw. Once the little gear is adjusted to mesh with the lead-screw it would stay meshed even if you were able to rotate the plate 360° around the leadscrew.

The stud in the arc only adjusts the big gear meshing with the drive gear.

Adjust the small gear to mesh with the leadscrew first by loosening the bolt on the axle hub nut and sliding it up and down the track in the plate, once that is adjusted, then you rotate the plate up to mesh the big gear with the drive gear and tighten the nut on the stud. See the illustration I just made below.

Wish I still had my mini lathe because I would make a YouTube video on how to do this two step adjustment. I looked and couldn’t find a video that shows the actual adjustment.