Belt grinders???

[Thumper68]

I have been thinking for the last year or so that I need a 2x72 belt grinder, of course YouTube has not helped me out here at all since over 50% of the videos I watch have a belt grinder in them.

I spent a few weeks checking out what is available commercially, and beyond some of the high end offerings I was not impressed, all the less expensive ones seem to be a range of light tube and sheet metal construction. There is even one available that is all aluminum and you need to source your own motor for a lot of these.

So few months back I decided that I should stop looking (Unless I find a great deal on a used machine of course) and start designing my own.

Last night I ran out of Argon so that project is on hold till Monday and I seem to have a bit of free time since it has been raining on and off all day. Here is what I have so far.

Some key notes:

I want it heavy and stiff, I hate tools that move around when you don't want them to.
Must use mostly things on hand.

I based it around a 1 hp 240 volt 1750 rpm motor I have. I also have a 2hp tread mill motor that I may convert to if the 1hp isn't enough.

The model does not have all the wheel offsets perfect but this gives me a plan to start building to. Also there are no fasteners in the model so all the holes are empty.

Once again if you see any design flaws please post up

View media item 74703

 

[LXCam]

There's lots of various home made offerings out there. And I'm all for building equipment when it makes sense. But I can honestly say this was the best $2,200 I ever spent for my shop. There isn't a single day it does get turned on.

But good luck on your build, you always pump out nice work and I have no doubt this will be successful.

 

[Thumper68]

There's lots of various home made offerings out there. And I'm all for building equipment when it makes sense. But I can honestly say this was the best $2,200 I ever spent for my shop. There isn't a single day it does get turned on.

But good luck on your build, you always pump out nice work and I have no doubt this will be successful.

LX that looks like a beautiful machine, but for my use I just can't justify that kind of money.

I figure all in I will have around $100 into my build, of course to get it that low I am using off cuts. So far the only things I need to purchase new are the bearings for the wheels, nuts/bolts and about 4 feet of 1 1/2 sq.

 

[LXCam]

LX that looks like a beautiful machine, but for my use I just can't justify that kind of money.

I figure all in I will have around $100 into my build, of course to get it that low I am using off cuts. So far the only things I need to purchase new are the bearings for the wheels, nuts/bolts and about 4 feet of 1 1/2 sq.

If you can build that for under $500 when all is said and done you'll be my hero. The basic frame is slam dunk other than time keeping it true and square. But it'll be the wheels and bearing that'll cost ya. You absolutely want at least one rubberized wheel and there're not cheap by themselves. I also suggest you make provisions for multiple sizes of platen wheels for getting into tight spots, those are very handy.

Well anyhow, I'm be watching.

 

[Sjfab]

I have the Ellis 6000 belt grinder and love it. I realize that's a different machine than what you're looking to build but if you are going to use it a lot, spend the money and get a quality product. My shop wouldn't be without my Ellis.

 

[Thumper68]

If you can build that for under $500 when all is said and done you'll be my hero. The basic frame is slam dunk other than time keeping it true and square. But it'll be the wheels and bearing that'll cost ya. You absolutely want at least one rubberized wheel and there're not cheap by themselves. I also suggest you make provisions for multiple sizes of platen wheels for getting into tight spots, those are very handy.

Well anyhow, I'm be watching.

The basic machine should be easy other than making sure the layout is spot on, for wheels I will start with 2 1/2" aluminum for the platen wheels, 3 inch for the tracking wheel and 5 inch for the drive wheel, I have all the aluminum blanks for those just need to turn them, I already bought the 3 sets of sealed bearings as well. You are correct I will need to source a 8 or 10 inch contact wheel at some point as needed, I was just looking on ebay and see them for around 100 to 150.

The nice thing about the design is that it is easy to change out wheels and belts, at least it should be.

I have the Ellis 6000 belt grinder and love it. I realize that's a different machine than what you're looking to build but if you are going to use it a lot, spend the money and get a quality product. My shop wouldn't be without my Ellis.

I always love it when people say that a shop built machine is inferior to a purchased one.

 

[Sjfab]

I always love it when people say that a shop built machine is inferior to a purchased one.

I never said a built unit was less of a machine, I said "if you're going to use it a lot spend the money the money and get a quality product"

Ive spent a lot of money building something that I could buy in the store, but ended up with a better product (in my eyes).

 

[Rccrawlerguy]

Thumper68, check out oregonblademaker on ebay. They sell grinders and parts. http://stores.ebay.com/oregonblademaker?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

[Thumper68]

I never said a built unit was less of a machine, I said "if you're going to use it a lot spend the money the money and get a quality product"

Ive spent a lot of money building something that I could buy in the store, but ended up with a better product (in my eyes).

Sorry I misinterpreted what you wrote, sounded to me like you were saying to buy one not build it.

I sometimes get very frustrated with many of the members here who seem to talk the talk but never show anything that they have personally done or are always negative on doing anything. I am a strong believer in the fact that with a bit of research, guidance and time there is very little you can not do yourself.

If I hear one more time that you need 17 engineers and 26 professionals to do something, I will pull out what is left of my hair.

If it were up to those in question we would still be in the stone age.

Once again sorry I mistook your meaning.

 

[Thumper68]

Thumper68, check out oregonblademaker on ebay. They sell grinders and parts. http://stores.ebay.com/oregonblademaker?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

I have along with all the others, honestly months of research have gone into this already.

Today was just the day to go from thumbnail sketches and notes to a model.

Thank you for the link anyway.

 

[LXCam]

Wow that Oregon store ^^^ has some really good prices for several items. That's a good link right there.

 

[Sjfab]

Sorry I misinterpreted what you wrote, sounded to me like you were saying to buy one not build it.

I sometimes get very frustrated with many of the members here who seem to talk the talk but never show anything that they have personally done or are always negative on doing anything. I am a strong believer in the fact that with a bit of research, guidance and time there is very little you can not do yourself.

If I hear one more time that you need 17 engineers and 26 professionals to do something, I will pull out what is left of my hair.

If it were up to those in question we would still be in the stone age.

Once again sorry I mistook your meaning.

No problems here, I rarely buy any tools brand new. I'm patient enough to wait for someone to sell a quality used one. Good luck in your build.

 

[Thumper68]

Here are a couple of more views. I love Sketch up, bit of a learning curve but handy.

View media item 74707
View media item 74708

 

[Mohawk Dave]

I sold both my Burr Kings and got an Ameribrade on the way. Full disclosure: my good buddy owns the company, so I am supporting him/them and it has bells and whistles.

https://www.ameribrade.com/

..

 

[Thumper68]

I sold both my Burr Kings and got an Ameribrade on the way. Full disclosure: my good buddy owns the company, so I am supporting him/them and it has bells and whistles.

https://www.ameribrade.com/

..

That looks like a very nice unit! Love the handles on the locking bolts.

 

[carbon]

I like this homemade one:

VFD would be nice, but belt-switching is cheaper.

Like you, I was hunting for years, scheming to build my own, and then I lucked out HARD and found a mint one-speed Burr King 760 for $600, so, uh, there's that. 8000 SFPM really, really, really eats metal.

I feel guilty wishing I had a VFD, though. But I don't really need it.

If you are mainly interested in eating metal fast, make sure you calculate the wheel diameter and motor speed to get to at least 6000 SFPM.

 

[dr_clyde]

I am interested to see how this comes out. I think you'll find that 1750 rpm isn't fast enough. All the commercial units I've used have a 3600 rpm motor.

 

[carbon]

Also, if I had the skillz to make a fancy grinder, I would copy one of the following, all of which pivot 90 degrees:

http://www.traviswuertz.com/?product=tw-90-knife-grinder (also sells a surface grinder attachment!)

http://www.trick-tools.com/RadiusMaster-Series-II-Belt-Grinding-Machine-Deluxe-Kit-RM48-Deluxe-10807

This one is a bit off the charts:

and http://www.trick-tools.com/********-Maximizer-2x72-inch-Premium-Belt-Grinding-Machine-9450

I know you've done a bunch of research, but I'm leaving this review link here for the rest of the folks:

https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/grinders

 

[Thumper68]

I like this homemade one:

VFD would be nice, but belt-switching is cheaper.

Like you, I was hunting for years, scheming to build my own, and then I lucked out HARD and found a mint one-speed Burr King 760 for $600, so, uh, there's that. 8000 SFPM really, really, really eats metal.

I feel guilty wishing I had a VFD, though. But I don't really need it.

If you are mainly interested in eating metal fast, make sure you calculate the wheel diameter and motor speed to get to at least 6000 SFPM.

If I did the numbers right, I should be okay on speed, if not I will either go with the tread mill motor I have or jump up to a 3ph 3600 rpm motor with a vfd.

I am interested to see how this comes out. I think you'll find that 1750 rpm isn't fast enough. All the commercial units I've used have a 3600 rpm motor.

See comment above

Also, if I had the skillz to make a fancy grinder, I would copy one of the following, all of which pivot 90 degrees:

http://www.traviswuertz.com/?product=tw-90-knife-grinder (also sells a surface grinder attachment!)

http://www.trick-tools.com/RadiusMaster-Series-II-Belt-Grinding-Machine-Deluxe-Kit-RM48-Deluxe-10807

This one is a bit off the charts:

and http://www.trick-tools.com/********-Maximizer-2x72-inch-Premium-Belt-Grinding-Machine-9450

I know you've done a bunch of research, but I'm leaving this review link here for the rest of the folks:

https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/grinders

I thought about a tilting model but in the end went simple, I can always build another one down the road.

 

[zkling]

You have a solid design. 2x72" belt grinders have flooded the market in the past 10 or so years. There are so many small makers producing a very good grinder all with a few little tweaks at a wide range of price points. It is really hard to have an ultimate all around grinder, where one unit does well what multiple specific units would do better individually. Majority were designed with knife making in mind but have spilled over into general fabrication quite heavily.

A few suggestions to keep in mind.

-2" belt really starts to shine at ~2hp.
-Aim for a peak speed of 8k sfpm down to ~600-800.
-A belt driven drive wheel, such as the burr king 760 shown above will allow a wider range of speeds through step pulleys without having to drastically overspeed or underspeed the motor through electronic control.
Having a separate tooling and rest arm like you have allows for the best adjustment of work rest.
-Having the contact wheel as the drive wheel (such as the burr king 760) will cause your belt speed to change when you change contact wheel size.

The burr king 760 was designed as a general purpose shop belt grinder. It is a very smooth running grinder and offers great versatility without having to change the setup (both contact wheel and flat platen at the same time) even a quick change to a slack belt setup. This is not ideal for knife making, thus they have other units more suited to knife makers.

Majority of Burr King sales go to industry and large plants, where as majority of the other 2x72" grinder go into private hands and smaller pro shops where the lack of guarding and configuration change over time/risk are much less of a concern.

 

[LXCam]

My primary reason for going with my burr king was for slack belt sanding. At the time I bought it I was making custom intakes and because each tube had three weld splices I needed something that would give me a perfect finish so they looked like one solid tube. Bondo and filler except for silver solder were out of the question because I had these powder coated. The cost didn't bother me as for what I charged, it paid for its self in only a few systems.

Funny (well at least to me it is), I haven't made one of these in 8 yrs but just a couple days ago someone posted up a picture of one, well it and a bunch of other cool **** made by my dear friends company. You can't really see the finish detail but trust me, I'm so fn **** if the metal wasn't perfect, it didn't go to powder coat.

 

[Thumper68]

You have a solid design. 2x72" belt grinders have flooded the market in the past 10 or so years. There are so many small makers producing a very good grinder all with a few little tweaks at a wide range of price points. It is really hard to have an ultimate all around grinder, where one unit does well what multiple specific units would do better individually. Majority were designed with knife making in mind but have spilled over into general fabrication quite heavily.

A few suggestions to keep in mind.

-2" belt really starts to shine at ~2hp.
-Aim for a peak speed of 8k sfpm down to ~600-800.
-A belt driven drive wheel, such as the burr king 760 shown above will allow a wider range of speeds through step pulleys without having to drastically overspeed or underspeed the motor through electronic control.
Having a separate tooling and rest arm like you have allows for the best adjustment of work rest.
-Having the contact wheel as the drive wheel (such as the burr king 760) will cause your belt speed to change when you change contact wheel size.

The burr king 760 was designed as a general purpose shop belt grinder. It is a very smooth running grinder and offers great versatility without having to change the setup (both contact wheel and flat platen at the same time) even a quick change to a slack belt setup. This is not ideal for knife making, thus they have other units more suited to knife makers.

Majority of Burr King sales go to industry and large plants, where as majority of the other 2x72" grinder go into private hands and smaller pro shops where the lack of guarding and configuration change over time/risk are much less of a concern.

Lots of great points, thank you!
Like I said in the OP, to start off I want to use what I have on hand for the most part, that includes the motor. If I have to make some changes/upgrades in the future so be it.

I have to go back and check the motors I have on the shelf, I might have a 3450 rpm I could use.

The table and platen attachment was one thing I really like about this design, it allows you to make many more attachments that can be changed out easily.
The other thing is after running the numbers this thing without a base will come in around 200 pounds, I like heavy stiff equipment, takes the vibration and chatter away.

I was just looking on CL and found a 2hp 3450 rpm 3ph motor I may call about tomorrow, I already have a spare vfd.

Here are some updated images, I redid the platen assembly and all the wheels to reflect a closer idea to what they will actually be like when finished.

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[Lelandwelds]

Hit the pause button until you are convinced a VFD is absolutely required. Used three phase motors are available at give away prices anyway.

Possibly two or three HP and 3600 RPM might maybe make it a bit easier to hit FPM and torque targets. My third largest annoyances are tracking related.

Work out those three and the rest is just preferences. For example, I like bigger wheels instead of plattens and I change belts OFTEN.

Truth is, with these, there is more than one path to success. Thats not a cheesy slogan but a statement of fact.

 

[Thumper68]

Hit the pause button until you are convinced a VFD is absolutely required. Used three phase motors are available at give away prices anyway.

Possibly two or three HP and 3600 RPM might maybe make it a bit easier to hit FPM and torque targets. My third largest annoyances are tracking related.

Work out those three and the rest is just preferences. For example, I like bigger wheels instead of plattens and I change belts OFTEN.

Truth is, with these, there is more than one path to success. Thats not a cheesy slogan but a statement of fact.

The nice part is that I can build it with the motor I have and then change/upgrade it later with no cost, other than the new motor. I already have several motors that will work for now.

Why do you prefer the wheel to the platen? What kind of work are you doing?

 

[LXCam]

For me, you get a better cut on the rubber wheel for heavy grinding. Trying that off the platen will have your work piece vibrating at the belt slice. All though minor, it's noticeable on fine finishes. And as he stated, quick / easy belt changes are a must so give that a tremendous amount of consideration. I think you're going to be surprised how much this one tool will become your go to, I know I was.

 

[Strouty]

I don't even have fancy ones, but I use them so much. I don't think I have even touched the actual grinder in a while.

 

[lis2323]

There's lots of various home made offerings out there. And I'm all for building equipment when it makes sense. But I can honestly say this was the best $2,200 I ever spent for my shop. There isn't a single day it does get turned on.



But good luck on your build, you always pump out nice work and I have no doubt this will be successful.

X2 on the Burr King. I was fortunate enough to find one on ebay. Needed "cleaning up" and a pedestal built but cheaper than I could build for the equivalent.



Terry

 

[PT Doc]

I have along with all the others, honestly months of research have gone into this already.

Today was just the day to go from thumbnail sketches and notes to a model.

Thank you for the link anyway.

Sounds like you have quite a lot invested already. Building one square. And one that runs true is mandatory. Your machine will cost way more than you think and no where near $100.

 

[PT Doc]

1725 rpm more 3 phase will sort you our nicely.

 

[Thumper68]

Sounds like you have quite a lot invested already. Building one square. And one that runs true is mandatory. Your machine will cost way more than you think and no where near $100.

The $100 figure is what I will have out of pocket, I have 90% of the steel, the Aluminum, the bearings, and several motors. The only parts I have to lay out cash for are some of the bolts, the 1 1/2" square bar, and the gas struts for the tension lever. I even got a small selection of belts from a buddy who was going to buy a belt grinder but changed his mind.

I do not count my labor in the build cost, for 2 reasons, 1. for me this is my hobby. 2. I will be making a video for YouTube of the process that will pay me back over time.

If I have to buy another motor to make everything work that will be a future expense and not part of the build.

So another question should I wire the motor I have 1 hp, 1725 rpm for 120v or 240v? I leaning towards 120v so I can plug it in anywhere in the shop, is there a good reason to go 240v?

 

[LXCam]

It's only 1HP, basically 7 amps. It's not worth the hassle wiring it for 240 unless you have that available everywhere. Mine is set up for 120 just because it doesn't use much power.

 

[Thumper68]

It's only 1HP, basically 7 amps. It's not worth the hassle wiring it for 240 unless you have that available everywhere. Mine is set up for 120 just because it doesn't use much power.

This is exactly what I was thinking, unless there was a great reason to go to 240.

Okay, Just got back from town, got 90% of the bolts required $10.99 all grade 5. I already have the rest of the bolts needed.

The 1 1/2" square for the arms came to just over $10 a foot, the initial plan calls for just under 4 feet so $40, I bought 12 feet since I know I will be adding a large and small contact wheels in the future.

A bit more came out of the budget for the cylinder to provide the tension $26.

That puts all the parts at $76.

 

[Thumper68]

Been a hell of a lot of work for a sketchup novice but I finished the working drawings.

Feels almost as good as finishing a real project.

I can transfer these to the shop PC to work off of for the build.
Screen shot.
View media item 74809

 

[crguy]

I have along with all the others, honestly months of research have gone into this already.

So, you've Already spent months on this, and don't really know what it will cost, or even have a finished design. What's your time worth?

I sure hope you didn't actually have a need for this.
FYI, everybody I know calls it a belt sander, not grinder.

 

[Thumper68]

So, you've Already spent months on this, and don't really know what it will cost, or even have a finished design. What's your time worth?

I sure hope you didn't actually have a need for this.
FYI, everybody I know calls it a belt sander, not grinder.

Months of research, seeing what others have done, looking at features of both home built and commercially available units, doing rough sketches and making notes as I come across stuff.

Now I am just finalizing the design, so that when I build it, it works as intended.

I could have built it from my sketches, but I decided that since I am trying to learn to use Sketchup and Fusion 360 I would do the complete design from 3D model to working drawings.

Cost isn't a issue, building it from mostly left overs that I have on hand is the goal.

My guess is that when you started on the car in your avatar you didn't have a complete plan or a complete budget either, if you did I would bet that you spent more then you were planning when you started.

For me it is not so much getting it done, I like the process from concept to design to completion.

Tom Lipton just released a video today, at one point he is using a hand file to smooth out a weld, he could have used a die grinder but he likes to work with hand tools, it's relaxing and enjoyable for him. Not everything needs to be a mad rush to get it done, enjoy the process!

 

[larry4406]

Months of research, seeing what others have done, looking at features of both home built and commercially available units, doing rough sketches and making notes as I come across stuff.

Now I am just finalizing the design, so that when I build it, it works as intended.

I could have built it from my sketches, but I decided that since I am trying to learn to use Sketchup and Fusion 360 I would do the complete design from 3D model to working drawings.

Cost isn't a issue, building it from mostly left overs that I have on hand is the goal.

My guess is that when you started on the car in your avatar you didn't have a complete plan or a complete budget either, if you did I would bet that you spent more then you were planning when you started.

For me it is not so much getting it done, I like the process from concept to design to completion.

Tom Lipton just released a video today, at one point he is using a hand file to smooth out a weld, he could have used a die grinder but he likes to work with hand tools, it's relaxing and enjoyable for him. Not everything needs to be a mad rush to get it done, enjoy the process!

In so many ways I agree. It is not always the destination one enjoys, rather the journey..

 

[Thumper68]

In so many ways I agree. It is not always the destination one enjoys, rather the journey..

Larry I'm glad you get it.

Working in the shop is my vocation and hobby, it does not matter what I am working on, it is being in the shop, working with my hands and wee little brain that I enjoy.

 

[carbon]

FYI, everybody I know calls it a belt sander, not grinder.

Usually, belt grinder = metal and belt sander = wood. It sounds odd to say, "I'm going to sand this metal."

Likewise, it's weird to say, "Gonna grind this here wood."

You dig?

(feeling all 60s all of a sudden)

 

[Todd.Brock]

This looks like a great project. I’m impressed with your Sketchup skills! Can’t wait to follow along on the build!

 

[Thumper68]

This looks like a great project. I’m impressed with your Sketchup skills! Can’t wait to follow along on the build!

Honestly I'm surprised at how well it came out, I have been using Sketchup for years and struggled with it a lot, many times throwing up my hands and reverting to pencil and paper.

Then I watched a few YouTube videos and it clicked at least a bit.

Not to highJack my own thread but here is a project that I have been thinking about for a few months and tonight decided to see if I could draw it out. About 45 minutes worth of work.
It's not done yet, but here is what I have done so far.

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