Belt sander or disc sander - or both?

[jdwilson44]

I would mostly be using this for prep and cleanup work on steel welding projects.

I'm slowly outfitting my shop to get some "real" work done. The goal is to (hopefully) - have a well outfitted shop I can use to maybe support a small side business or retirement type business. I've been building up my equipment roster , got a Miller 350P, a Stronghand welding table, a good sized blasting cabinet, 7.5HP compressor , just bought a mag drill, would like to get a CNC plasma table - etc.

Basically what I've been doing is every time I see a "hole" in my equipment - and by that I mean I figure out there's some way I could make my life easier by buying better equipment - I've done some research and invested in a better tool.

At the moment any grinding/sanding I've had to do - I've done with a 4 1/2 grinder with a sanding disc attached.

There seems to be a huge range of options out there for sanders - from combined disc and belt sanders , to large 15" or 20" diameter disc sanders and 4 to 6" wide belt sanders.

For doing steel prep and cleanup work - which one is the better option? Does it mattter - is it just a personal preference thing? I'm not opposed to having both - just wondering what other people's opinions are.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I don't do a lot of metal work but I have a 90's craftsman 4"x36" belt / 6" disc combo sander, it is a pretty good compromise between size and utility. Shouldn't be too hard to get one on the cheap, I got mine at a yardsale for $4, the diablo belt and discs cost more than the sander.

Forgot to mention, with the combo ones you have to have the belt vertical even if you are only using the disc portion. When it is turned on and the belt arm is horizontal on top of the machine, it will hit the top and sand it. It is not a big deal but it is something worth mentioning.

 

[Strouty]

I have a couple belt sanders, really wish I had a combo one with a disc or a nice standalone one.

 

[lilredex]

If you go that route (I did), get the one with the external motor like this

Stay away from the ones that have an internal motor, they are weaklings.

I also have a Homecraft 8 1/2" disc that was designed to run on top of a table saw (when motors were tough to find). It does an excellent job also.

 

[exmaxima1]

You should be researching belt GRINDERS, not sanders. They run much faster, and use a contact wheel instead of a platen. Much better for metal work.

 

[crewchief888]

i added a disk/belt combo from KBC tool & machinery to the garage last spring.
i had always used 4 1/2" grinders.

 

[DBendr]

Metal fab ? Both, but if it's one or the other, buy a disk,specifically a 12", especially if you're cutting with a p.o.s. abrasive chop saw or cutoff wheel in an angle grinder.That's the best way to get those angles "to the line" under those circumstances.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't do a lot of metal work but I have a 90's craftsman 4"x36" belt / 6" disc combo sander, it is a pretty good compromise between size and utility. Shouldn't be too hard to get one on the cheap, ...

I have been looking for one, on and off, for years ! Most people want 20 to 40 TIMES what you paid !!

 

[theoldwizard1]

The HF version, can be improved a lot with some minor modifications. Check YouTube.

 

[Jim C.]

I don't do much metal working except for very basic stuff that might show up in a DIY project around the house, so I can't really say if a disc sander or belt sander would be better in terms of metal fabrication/metal working. I do have an old Delta 12" disc sander out in my shop that I frequently use for woodworking. It's nothing to go out there, flip the switch, and knock the corner off a piece of wood in just a few seconds. That being said, on more than several occasions, I've smoothed a burr or sharp edge off of something metal too. To date I haven't ever felt like I needed a stationary belt sander, but if I had one, I'd probably find uses for it. Still, if I had to pick one, I'd go with the disc sander. They're easy to setup, adjust and use.

Jim C.

 

[jdwilson44]

You should be researching belt GRINDERS, not sanders. They run much faster, and use a contact wheel instead of a platen. Much better for metal work.

I probably should have been more precise in my terminology - to be fair, what I'm considering is either something like this:

(Dake belt grinder 3 x 79 inch belt, 6,600 SFPM, 4 hp motor )

or something like this :

(Baileigh 20inch disc grinder, 2HP , 1100 rpm)

 

[jdwilson44]

Metal fab ? Both, but if it's one or the other, buy a disk,specifically a 12", especially if you're cutting with a p.o.s. abrasive chop saw or cutoff wheel in an angle grinder.That's the best way to get those angles "to the line" under those circumstances.

Yeah - that's one of my issues. I either cut with a 4 1/2 cutting wheel in a grinder - or using my Dewalt cold saw. In either case - most of the time - I have to square up the ends.

For stuff like you're talking about - I think the disc grinder would probably be the best option (squaring up tube ends - etc).

Actually - as I'm looking at the responses here in this thread - it's becoming clearer to me, I probably "need" both.

 

[jdwilson44]

Do you have a bench grinder?

I've got a Delta bench grinder - I use it for putting the points on TIG electrodes

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I have been looking for one, on and off, for years ! Most people want 20 to 40 TIMES what you paid !!

Wow, that is pretty much retail for newer ones you find at Home Despot or Blowes. Are you looking you going to yard sales or looking on CL? It has been a while since yard sale season but it was not too hard to find them for $50 or less at yard sales.

 

[Monte]

I probably should have been more precise in my terminology - to be fair, what I'm considering is either something like this:

(Dake belt grinder 3 x 79 inch belt, 6,600 SFPM, 4 hp motor )

or something like this :

(Baileigh 20inch disc grinder, 2HP , 1100 rpm)

both

 

[zkling]

2" belt sander is the workhorse for metal work. Honestly you are better to build than buy anymore. ~6000sfpm minimum.

Disk sanders are nice to keep a flat grind and not round edges over and will really remove metal, but aren't as handy as a belt. A 9" at 3600 rpm is good, minimum a 10 or 12" at 1725 rpm, even better is a 20" at 1725rpm which keeps the surface speed up.

 

[Strouty]

Looks like you will need both, not to many combo units have that kind of capacity.

 

[LXCam]

I probably should have been more precise in my terminology - to be fair, what I'm considering is either something like this:

(Dake belt grinder 3 x 79 inch belt, 6,600 SFPM, 4 hp motor )

or something like this :

(Baileigh 20inch disc grinder, 2HP , 1100 rpm)

I have everything but the most used tool I got and I'm not joking when I say my belt grinder gets used daily. The belt selection is everything, so make sure and get one where changing belts is almost effortless. I don't have any experience with that one, but I'm certain they made that aspect easy. A big disc makes it easier squaring up or beveling something, but changing pads gets old and there's less surface area then the belt. If I had to reduce my tools down to one, without hesitation it'd be the belt grinder.

 

[Strouty]

I have a 2" and a 4" and the 2" gets used more than anything. Anytime I do anything metal related it gets used.

 

[Mr_fixit]

I'd suggest a combo one for about 200 bucks..

 

[zkling]

Guy is willing to spend $1500 and gets recommended $200 combo units. :

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Belt grinder. I haven't turned on our disc grinder in years.

 

[exmaxima1]

I have everything but the most used tool I got and I'm not joking when I say my belt grinder gets used daily. The belt selection is everything, so make sure and get one where changing belts is almost effortless. I don't have any experience with that one, but I'm certain they made that aspect easy. A big disc makes it easier squaring up or beveling something, but changing pads gets old and there's less surface area then the belt. If I had to reduce my tools down to one, without hesitation it'd be the belt grinder.

I have several belt grinders, and agree they are the most used machines in that category. AND I agree the only time I turn on the 12" disc is to square up a cut---like you say, disc changing is a real pain in the ....

 

[DBendr]

What's all this disk changing y'all refer to ? I use PSA60 x12" ceramics and go through about one every 6-8 weeks.It takes 60 seconds to peel it off stick one on and square the table.
I use the belt all the time too but generally for odd shapes and flat plates. 60 grit ceramic there too.
It's just an 8" contact wheel and no platen or guards so the belt is literally 30 seconds to change and track.The only time I use other belts is for knife work, tool sharpening or non-ferrous stuff-wood.That's the only time I change the speed too(vfd).
I should put a quick release platen on the thing too, I suppose.
I hardly do enough wood any more to justify it and the hand belt sander does that when needed.

 

[exmaxima1]

What's all this disk changing y'all refer to ? I use PSA60 x12" ceramics and go through about one every 6-8 weeks.It takes 60 seconds to peel it off stick one on and square the table.

I have an old Rockwell 6x48/12" disc combo, and there's no way I can change the disc that fast. I need to remove the table, peel the disc, CLEAN the backing plate with acetone, install new disc, assemble table, adjust angle, and check that the disc doesn't fly off during the first minute of use. At least 5 minutes.

Belt change on my Multi-Tool is about 20 seconds at most. Baldor belt grinder is about 1/2 that.

 

[LXCam]

I have an old Rockwell 6x48/12" disc combo, and there's no way I can change the disc that fast. I need to remove the table, peel the disc, CLEAN the backing plate with acetone, install new disc, assemble table, adjust angle, and check that the disc doesn't fly off during the first minute of use. At least 5 minutes.

Belt change on my Multi-Tool is about 20 seconds at most. Baldor belt grinder is about 1/2 that.

Different manufacturer but same flipping story. I dread it every time.

 

[jdwilson44]

I have several belt grinders, and agree they are the most used machines in that category. AND I agree the only time I turn on the 12" disc is to square up a cut---like you say, disc changing is a real pain in the ....

To be fair - one of the other pieces of equipment that is on my short list to acquire - is a good quality bandsaw, which if what I've read is anywhere near accurate - may get rid of most of the off-square cut problems I see using the chopsaw or the cut-off disc.

I can see how using the belt grinder I might be able to true up cut ends just as well as with a disc grinder - might just need a larger fence to hold the piece against.

 

[zkling]

The problem with belt sanders and truing up, is that they don't really run completely flat. Even against a nice platen there is still a slight convex to the belt which is slightly transferred to the work. You can only tension a belt so much to take care of this. It works to a degree, especially on smaller say ~1.5" max tubing. But it is hard to keep a crisp top edge. BIG disc sanders are becoming a thing of the past, but they used to be the king of semi precision flattening in tool and die, pattern/mold, casting and fab shops. Talking about 20" being a standard small unit.

 

[2oolhound]

I have a small 1hp 2" x 8" combo. The belt is used more than any other power tool I own. I usually run 1" belts and use it mainly for hand shaping or finishing roughly ground steel.

 

[PCustoms]

I've got an old craftsman 6x48 belt and IIRC 8" disc combo. It's slow, I put the cheap HF belts on it (and haven't found discs for it) but it still trues up 90's and 45's I've cut on my bandsaw.

Main gripe is rhe table, it's too small to support anything as is. I built it out with some plhwood, and it's better, but you can still flex it.

Future plan is a 12" Jet disc, the tables are large and sturdy. I keep my eye out for an old industrial unit to refurb, but honestly right now don't have the room. Place I used to work had a sweet setup, a 6" belt with a carbide chamfer cutter setup in place of the disc, made perfect chamfer for welding. Probably a Kalamazoo.

 

[jdwilson44]

Looking thru some of the options available out there - and what I'm seeing is a number of manufacturers who sell the 3"x79" belt sanders - and depending on the make , they spec them as spinning at ~ 6000 - 6600 sfpm. I've seen some cheaper ones on Ebay - that are the same size but spin in the ~ 3000-3600 range.

Then there are 6" x 79" units available - but those are all slower. Some spin in the 1800 sfpm range - I think I saw one or two that are in the ~3000-3600 range.

How important is the speed? I'm assuming that the speed is mostly important for the metal removal rate. Am I correct?

 

[UpNorther]

I have a 6 x 48 / 10" disk combo. Absolutely love it. Use both the belt and disk all the time.

 

[DBendr]

Looking thru some of the options available out there - and what I'm seeing is a number of manufacturers who sell the 3"x79" belt sanders - and depending on the make , they spec them as spinning at ~ 6000 - 6600 sfpm. I've seen some cheaper ones on Ebay - that are the same size but spin in the ~ 3000-3600 range.

Then there are 6" x 79" units available - but those are all slower. Some spin in the 1800 sfpm range - I think I saw one or two that are in the ~3000-3600 range.

How important is the speed? I'm assuming that the speed is mostly important for the metal removal rate. Am I correct?

It's very critical to keep the heat down.If you're grinding something going into heat treat it doesnt matter. Something already treated you slow down or cool constantly. Wood will burn and the belts themselves will actually get smokin' hot on a fast machine. You'll see grooved contact wheels once in a while on commercial rigs ( fast). Those wheels help cool the belt.
Almost an impeller effect.That's why it's done.

 

[jdwilson44]

Guy is willing to spend $1500 and gets recommended $200 combo units. :

That would be a decent recommendation if I was short on money. But I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of:

I don't want to "buy" again - whatever I get , I'll likely be using for the next 20 years. So I want whatever I get to handle what I might throw at it in that time.

I have some hope of building a small business, so time spent using the equipment will be a factor. If it helps me get stuff done faster - that's a definite plus.

Reliability (I don't want to just keep wearing out stuff that's too small for the job I want it to do)

Whether or not the equipment is actually up to the job. If I have a piece of 2"x4" rectangular tube I'm trying to square up , I'd like to have the equipment to do that.

 

[jdwilson44]

It's very critical to keep the heat down.If you're grinding something going into heat treat it doesnt matter. Something already treated you slow down or cool constantly. Wood will burn and the belts themselves will actually get smokin' hot on a fast machine. You'll see grooved contact wheels once in a while on commercial rigs ( fast). Those wheels help cool the belt.
Almost an impeller effect.That's why it's done.

Ok - That makes sense.

So faster is probably better for metal - less time grinding probably means less heat transmitted to the piece.

 

[1badbird]

The 3" Kalamazoo I have has wheels like the ones above. I also have a 15 or 16 inch apex disk sander which looks like the one you posted before and the table drops to change disk easily. For small parts I use the Kalamazoo, for truing up parts I use the disk sander. Unfortunately their is no perfect one.

 

[BD1]

Sounds like you have some nice goodies. I have a 6''x 48'' belt with 12 '' disc Powermatic and its nice, 4''x 36'' Kalamazoo belt, and recently bought a Dayton 1'' x 42'' which is great for small parts. Each one has it's place.
Burr King is nice but around $2000 plus and Ellis has some great reviews.
http://www.trick-tools.com/Ellis_6000_2_1_2_x_60_inch_Belt_Grinder_6000_1240
http://www.trick-tools.com/Ellis-6000-Deluxe-Belt-Grinder-8814
http://www.trick-tools.com/Burr_Kin...izontal_Belt_Grinder_8000_SFPM_960_250_8_1197

Do you have a horizontal band saw ? That's will give you some pretty square cuts that will not need a $2000.00 sander. I bought a ELLIS 1600 last year and it is totally amazing . The 1'' blade really makes a difference.
http://www.trick-tools.com/Ellis_1600_Dual_Mitering_Head_Bandsaw_1600_ELL_2163

 

[DBendr]

Ok - That makes sense.

So faster is probably better for metal - less time grinding probably means less heat transmitted to the piece.

Start at 3:30 if you don't want the whole thing

 

[slodat]

My belt grinders and disc sanders. Wouldn't let anyone of them go..

Good buddy designed this one. Has contact wheel and coping attachments with VFD for variable speed.


Burr King:


20" Disc. This guy is getting a VFD. Mostly for the braking.

 

[slodat]

OP, what did you end up deciding?