bending pipe and tube

[69charged]

hello all. just wondering what you guys are using to bend pipe or tubing in your garage? i want to start a rock crawler project but want to get the tools i need first. i would like to get one that does mandrel bending but i dont have millions to spend. i was thinking up to a 1000 is where my target area is.
i found one like this

http://www.jd2.com/
i was looking at the hydraulic one so as to make it easier on me.
any ideas?
clarence

 

[Stephenw]

I have a Pro-Tools 105.

http://www.pro-tools.com/105.htm

I got it from here...

http://www.rockbuggysupply.com/

 

[Haystack]

I use a Mittler Bros. A little higher than your price range, but it works great.
http://www.mittlerbros.com/tube_bender_90_hydraulic.htm

 

[nissan_crawler]

i wouldn't get the mittler bros bender, personally. it's too limited.

 

[tatra]

on the topic of pipe bending, will filling the pipe with sand keep it from wrinling the inside of the bend?................and will it make the bender work that nuch harder?................i have used the sand method in the past with heat satfactorilly[ is that the correct spelung mark?]............also what is the opinion of the harbour freight[ american], princess auto stlye of benders?

 

[Stephenw]

on the topic of pipe bending, will filling the pipe with sand keep it from wrinling the inside of the bend?................and will it make the bender work that nuch harder?................i have used the sand method in the past with heat satfactorilly[ is that the correct spelung mark?]............also what is the opinion of the harbour freight[ american], princess auto stlye of benders?

With a proper bender and the correct dies, there is no need for filling the tube (or pipe) with sand. You can get dies for both tube and pipe for a Pro-Tools 105. There are even square dies.

People make the Harbor Freight pipe bender work by using sand, shims, standing on one leg, holding their mouth just right, etc., but I think it is less than adequate. Most call it a HF Pipe Kinker.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

we always start with a pre made kit for muscle cars -S&W or chassisworks and go from there
if you don't have sanctioning body rules , you can just notch things together
rock buggies don't go real fast

 

[rsanter]

look at the metalmeet, they have shown some nice home-made ones

bob

 

[69charged]

no its not going to be for any kind of racing or anything like that. i just want it for the safety of my wife and kids as they are the ones that want to go 4x4 ing but i dont want to take our everyday vehicle so i am going to build a buggy. then, if we roll, no one gets hurt and we can continue on wheelin'
i think i will go with the pro tools one. i like that one. for 699 and it comes with one set of dies of your choice which will be 1.5" i guess. its more common from what i see. for ordering purposes i mean.
thanks for the replies guys.
clarence

 

[Danglerb]

Does the mandrel bend require something inside the pipe to keep it from being crushed, or is it a different type of bending from a crush bender?

I'm thinking about making a special set of headers, and being fairly fussy about the bend shape etc. Seems like most of the pros weld together prebent sections, and I am assuming they wouldn't idly be doing that.

 

[nissan_crawler]

With a proper bender and the correct dies, there is no need for filling the tube (or pipe) with sand. You can get dies for both tube and pipe for a Pro-Tools 105. There are even square dies.

People make the Harbor Freight pipe bender work by using sand, shims, standing on one leg, holding their mouth just right, etc., but I think it is less than adequate. Most call it a HF Pipe Kinker.

Most people just can't figure out how to use it right. This was all done with the HF bender, no sand, no heat, no shims, mouth closed, standing on both feet:

Does the mandrel bend require something inside the pipe to keep it from being crushed, or is it a different type of bending from a crush bender?

I'm thinking about making a special set of headers, and being fairly fussy about the bend shape etc. Seems like most of the pros weld together prebent sections, and I am assuming they wouldn't idly be doing that.

To get no crushing, most of those benders have a set of balls...(looks like **** beads for lack of any better description ) that go inside the tube, and hydraulic pressure is used to hold them tight inside the tube, then the tube is bent. After the tube is bent, some pressure is released, and they're pulled back through the bend.

I usually build all my own exhaust from prebent sections, for this exact reason. I will NOT put up with that crimped or ovaled **** from an exhaust shop, and VERY FEW have the equipment to do it the right way.

Basically, your assumption was correct, especially with the fairly light wall tubing headers use.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

What is that?

 

[nissan_crawler]

What is that?

Usually called a "rock slider".

 

[eschoendorff]

Most people just can't figure out how to use it right. This was all done with the HF bender, no sand, no heat, no shims, mouth closed, standing on both feet:

To get no crushing, most of those benders have a set of balls...(looks like **** beads for lack of any better description ) that go inside the tube, and hydraulic pressure is used to hold them tight inside the tube, then the tube is bent. After the tube is bent, some pressure is released, and they're pulled back through the bend.

I usually build all my own exhaust from prebent sections, for this exact reason. I will NOT put up with that crimped or ovaled **** from an exhaust shop, and VERY FEW have the equipment to do it the right way.

Basically, your assumption was correct, especially with the fairly light wall tubing headers use.

That mailbox is just too damn cool!

 

[nissan_crawler]

That mailbox is just too damn cool!

I had a few issues with the box...4, actually. I've had a few issues since, but they all involved 30 seconds with a can of spray paint. 600 lbs of concrete, 8' 4"x3/8" wall steel post filled with concrete, 180 lbs of steel. Problem solved.

 

[eschoendorff]

You do quality work. Looks great!

 

[kvom]

The JD2 models are very popular for building cages on rock crawlers, and work well. The hydraulic option is definitely a plus, as it takes a lot of muscle power to bend 1.75" DOM (ask me how I know). It's possible to convert a manual bender to hydraulic yourself as opposed to buying, which can save some $$.

There are often people selling used benders on pirate4x4.com.

 

[Graham08]

JD Squared Model 4 with air over hydraulic setup. I got mine from Van Sant (www.tricktools.com). I also had a manual Model 3, and bent a bunch of 2"x0.125" wall DOM tubing with it, but had an 8' handle on the bender to do it.

I would recommend any of the JD Squared stuff, but do yourself a favor and buy through a distributor. JD2's customer service leaves a lot to be desired for direct sales.

As far as mandrel/sand bending, for most chassis applications it is not required. JD2 has a table of the min wall thickness tubing to use with each of their dies. For stuff up to 1-1/2" diameter, you can do down to 0.065" wall, if you have the correct bend radius die. If you go below the min wall, the inside of the bend will wrinkle.

Header tubing should be mandrel bend. Typically it's 18 gauge (0.049") and much tighter radius than a normal bender is capable of. When I build headers, I buy mandrel bends, and cut and weld.

 

[69charged]

yeah from what i have seen looking for a tube bender for awhile, you would be pretty hard pressed to get a bender that could do that diameter of tubing and still get the tight radius that you need for headers. the only way i have seen it done is like graham said. buy the pre-bent ones and cut and weld accordingly. unless, of course, you have the money to buy the proper bender for that use.
clarence

 

[tatra]

I had a few issues with the box...4, actually. I've had a few issues since, but they all involved 30 seconds with a can of spray paint. 600 lbs of concrete, 8' 4"x3/8" wall steel post filled with concrete, 180 lbs of steel. Problem solved.
are you the inspiration for the guy in crankshaft who,s mailbox is always getting backed into

 

[Stephenw]

Most people just can't figure out how to use it right. This was all done with the HF bender, no sand, no heat, no shims, mouth closed, standing on both feet:

From Pirate 4x4...

You have to do the two outer bends first, then finish it in the middle, and move the rollers closer together as it gets closer to 180.

P.S. I've never packed any of my tubework with sand, either.

no modifications at all. IIRC, the pipe is about 1.25" od... I got it at a steel yard that just houses random **** under tin roofs, so nothing is labeled.

IIRC, I didn't *quite* get to 180, but it was damn close, and then I used heat and a ratchet strap to get to 180. It's been a while, fuzzy on the details.

I'd classify this as "holding your mouth just right".

You also had to choose your pipe or tubing so it was a close fit to your available die size. Also, from the pictures, it appears as though your tube did crush slightly in the bend. This would be fine for a mailbox or rock sliders. I think the structural integrity is compromised for use in a roll cage.

The Pro-Tools 105 is not suitable for thinwall tube for exhaust systems. I too buy mandrel bent "J" tubes from summit racing and cut and weld for exhaust work.

Here's an exhaust system I built...

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,83753.0.html

 

[nissan_crawler]

From Pirate 4x4...



I'd classify this as "holding your mouth just right".

You also had to choose your pipe or tubing so it was a close fit to your available die size. Also, from the pictures, it appears as though your tube did crush slightly in the bend. This would be fine for a mailbox or rock sliders. I think the structural integrity is compromised for use in a roll cage.

The Pro-Tools 105 is not suitable for thinwall tube for exhaust systems. I too buy mandrel bent "J" tubes from summit racing and cut and weld for exhaust work.

Here's an exhaust system I built...

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,83753.0.html

I can do a 180 bend in about a minute, which from what I hear, is what it takes with a normal hydro bender. Not exactly "holding your mouth just right". I didn't choose anything. I grabbed a few rusty sticks out of the scrap metal pile at the steel yard and chucked it in the bender and went.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with the bends for use in a rollcage. I would have a problem with using pipe, unless it was structural pipe, which mine isn't.