Benefits - Pro's / Con's

[Teken]

I am in the very early stages of planning out my basement build. Unlike many of you who live in the United States. Here in Canada most lights and plugs are wired with 14-2 Romex.

Unless a device / circuit requires such power it is rarely wired with 12-2, 12-3 wire. My plans are to wire the entire basement with 12-3 Romex. The ideal is to ensure if I should ever need extra power that third spare wire could save me huge in the long run.

Besides the added cost of purchasing the 12-3 Romex. Is there any reason for a person to not install this cable. I do realize that 12-2 / 12-3 wire is harder to work with given its thicker gage. But, I don't for see me going into a J box very often once all of the device box's are in place.

Your thoughts.

Teken . . .

 

[pattenp]

I'm not sure what you think will be your future needs for an additional circuit. But the third wire will only serve you if you change the circuit to a multiwire branch circuit. My gut tells me you may be wasting your money. I'm kinda mixed on this because of not seeing the potential.

 

[Teken]

I'm not sure what you think will be your future needs for an additional circuit. But the third wire will only serve you if you change the circuit to a multiwire branch circuit. My gut tells me you may be wasting your money. I'm kinda mixed on this because of not seeing the potential.

In your example what could be done with the 3rd wire? Maybe I am over thinking some of this and should keep to the basics and core idea of planning.

Ensuring all the outlets are exactly where and how many I want. To ensure future fixtures are done and placed, again where I expect there to be a need.

Teken . . .

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't understand what you would do with the third wire, convert to 220V?

I think you're smarter to just plan it out carefully and ensure you have enough circuits and receptacles for any equipment you might have or might buy in the future, such as a welder, higer capacity saw or drill press etc.

Also I've found as I get older, having lots of extra lighting really helps.

Having some extra circuits available in your breaker box is always a good idea, in case you want to add something unforseen later.

 

[Teken]

I don't understand what you would do with the third wire, convert to 220V?

I think you're smarter to just plan it out carefully and ensure you have enough circuits and receptacles for any equipment you might have or might buy in the future, such as a welder, higer capacity saw or drill press etc.

Also I've found as I get older, having lots of extra lighting really helps.

Having some extra circuits available in your breaker box is always a good idea, in case you want to add something unforseen later.

Yeah, I think I am over thinking this out. I believe I will simply wire all the outlets and fixtures with 12-2 Romex and be done with it. Just plan accordingly and have extra just in case.

Teken . . .

 

[Stuart in MN]

#12 wire is a little more difficult to work with because it's stiffer and heavier, and it costs more. If you're okay with those things it won't hurt anything to use it. You'll have capacity for 20 amp circuits, and the voltage drop will be a little less (although in most homes the wire lengths are short enough that voltage drop is a non-issue.)

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am in the very early stages of planning out my basement build. Unlike many of you who live in the United States. Here in Canada most lights and plugs are wired with 14-2 Romex.

This is still true in the US.

 

[pattenp]

The 240V is a thought, but it could only be a 20A 240V outlet. As a multiwire circuit you could add more 120V outlets if needed. Again doing three wires for a maybe I'll use it in the future is just that, a maybe. I know I have done wiring on some things and at the time I thought I should add something extra, but then decided not to. Sure enough years later I want to do something and wished I had rum the extra wire. It's the old damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Also consider AFCI's. I'm not sure if your area requires them, but 2-pole AFCIs are not readily available.

 

[Teken]

Also consider AFCI's. I'm not sure if your area requires them, but 2-pole AFCIs are not readily available.

They are required in all living quarters. I planned on installing a few AFCI outlets where I deemed them necessary. Since the basement *may* have a bedroom down there I might just install a AFCI breaker to protect the entire circuit instead.

I think going this route would also be better since I can install my surge outlets to protect my electronics in those areas too.

Teken . . .

 

[Speedy Petey]

In the US AFCI receptacles would not be legal in this instance. Not sure how your code reads.

 

[Teken]

In the US AFCI receptacles would not be legal in this instance. Not sure how your code reads.

Really? How come they are not allowed? You have me quite curious now!

Teken . . .

 

[Speedy Petey]

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Exception No. 1: If RMC, IMC, EMT, Type MC, or steel armored Type AC cables meeting the requirements of 250.118 and metal outlet and junction boxes are installed for the portion of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install an outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.

Exception No. 2: Where a listed metal or nonmetallic conduit or tubing is encased in not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete for the portion of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install an outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.

 

[Teken]

Hrmmmmm, interesting. Why tempt fate is what I say. I will use AFCI breakers in the basement renovation when it comes time. I will install the surge outlets in areas where they are needed. It makes sense to protect the entire branch circuit and not just the local area.

As no one can be certain unless they installed the wiring that it is indeed protecting the entire length of cable at that outlet.

Thank you for citing this for me.

Teken . . .

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

The primary reason I would consider 12-3 or 14-3 would be to allow "banking" the lights with 2 switches. Run #-2 to the switch location and x-3 beyond to the lights. You can have 2 switches and moves lights between switches in the junctions.

I put 8 small 3" pot lights in the ceiling of my newly renovated family room.

A B B C

A B B C

I can have A,B and C together or split them any way I want on 2 switches.

Right now it A on 1 switch and B,C on another.

Jim

 

[Teken]

Thanks Jim.

Teken . . .

 

[tfi racing]

They are required in all living quarters.
Teken . . .

Really, what code book requires AFCI protection in all living quarters in Canada?

 

[Teken]

Really, what code book requires AFCI protection in all living quarters in Canada?

All bedroom outlets must be on a AFCI per the CEC.

2002 version of the Canadian Electrical Code in Canada (CSA Standard C22.1), the national codes require AFCIs in all circuits that feed outlets in bedrooms of dwelling units. This requirement is typically accomplished by using a kind of circuit-breaker (defined by UL 1699) in the breaker panel that provides combined arc-fault and overcurrent protection.

The 19th edition of the Canadian Electrical Code, Part 1, Rule 26-722 (f) requires “branch circuits that supply receptacles in sleeping facilities of a dwelling unit” shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter.
A Dwelling unit means one or more rooms for the use of one or more persons as a housekeeping unit with cooking, eating, living, and sleeping facilities. Examples would include; single-dwellings, condominiums, cottages, cabins, apartment units and motel/ hotel/ student dormitory units that are equipped with cooking facilities within the individual dwelling unit. Institutional facilities such as hospitals, nursing homes, long term care facilities and prisons are not considered as dwelling units.
For the application of AFCI requirements a cooking facility is defined as one that contains a range (electric or gas) or counter top stove and/or oven. Microwaves and hotplates do not constitute a cooking facility.
For the application of this rule, branch circuits that supply receptacles in bedrooms of a dwelling unit shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter.
In single occupancy rooms or bachelor suites that have cooking facilities, AFCI protection would be required on the branch circuit that supplies the general purpose receptacles located in the living area , however, they would not be required to protect the receptacles required under Rule 26-712 (d). (Receptacle requirements for kitchen area)
AFCI’ s are not required for receptacles which are to be added to an existing branch circuit in existing bedrooms or sleeping area. In cases where a new bedroom or new sleeping area is added and receptacles are supplied from an existing branch circuit, AFCI protection is required. Installation of a new branch circuit in an existing or new bedroom or sleeping area would require AFCI protection.
AFCI’s are not required on a service upgrade unless a new branch circuit is added to supply receptacles in bedrooms or sleeping facilities. A simple replacement of receptacles would not require AFCI protection

Teken . . .

 

[tfi racing]

Correct, your earlier post hinted that they were required in all living areas similiar to the NEC.
Feel free to spend extra cash on the 12/3, just remember to be wary of box fill requirements for the extra and larger conductors.BTW, we're using the 2012 CEC now, some references from 2002 may not be longer valid.

 

[71blackcheyenne]

i dunno about the 2012 code, but i know the 2009 code required arc faults for bedrooms when we built our new house. Think it was the same year those tamper proof receptacles came out.