Bent trailer frame realignment

[davejo]

I picked up a fixer upper trailer. It looks like somebody sort of jack knifed it while backing up so the tongue is warped off center a couple of inches. The frame rails are bowed about an inch as well. The result is that the axles are offset a bit and the trailer deck is dog tracking while in tow.

Its a medium duty, tag along tandem type, 10K GVW, 14 foot, 2 5/8 hitch ball variety.

For the tongue, I'm thinking that removing the hitch coupler will make it easier to straighten the four frame elements that attach there, rather than trying to straighten all four at once. (3 or 4 inch channel irons)

For the deck frame I'm thinking of restraining the ends somehow and pushing in the center to remove the bow in the frame rails.

Another idea is a controlled jack knife maneuver to the opposite direction. I wouldn't want to try that with an actual tow vehicle, though.

This is a farm setting so we have tractors, trucks, trees and chains to work with. How would you tackle it?

 

[Doug Arthurs]

Not seeing the damage or knowing your skill I would cut the tongue off fabricate a new one and weld it back on.

 

[maxpower_hd]

Not seeing the damage or knowing your skill I would cut the tongue off fabricate a new one and weld it back on.

That is what I was thinking too. You could try the straightening idea and maybe use a little heat but you may end up causing even more damage.

If the axles have not moved from whatever bent it in the first place, you can measure from two points on the axle to the receiver to get your center. I would probably start by measuring the deck from corner to corner to see if it is out of square. Pics would be helpful.

 

[uscarry45]

We bent one back on our farm using some blocks against a loading dock and using a 6 way blade on dozer to gently push back straight

 

[Mr.N]

Pictures would help a lot.

Trees, straps and chain come-a-longs work on the smaller stuff, not sure about your trailer...

 

[Mr.N]

Another idea is a controlled jack knife maneuver to the opposite direction. I wouldn't want to try that with an actual tow vehicle, though.

if you try this method, make sure you've several video camera's rolling.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Pictures?

 

[davejo]

 

[mikegt4]

Those 2 outer rails certainly are not factory!
Has someone put them on due to damage to the original tongue rails?

What does it look like under the deck?
I would completely remove the tongue and replace it in a proper manner.

 

[davejo]

The outer rails are contiguous with the outer frame rail that runs the entire length of the trailer.

I have only towed it about 60 miles so I don't know how bad the tire wear will be. Its possible that the axles have realigned themselves to the new tongue position. It is a bit annoying to look in the mirror and see that crooked mess back there, though.

 

[kbs2244]

Straighten out the axels and live with it.

Or flip it over to use chain falls, come-a-longs etc to pull it back into shape.

 

[Heel2toe]

FYI you can see a cracked weld in the 2nd pic on the right hand side. I would go through the thing and make sure all the other welds are in fine shape should you choose to pull it back straight. You never know what might pop after the pull or has cracked already like that one obvious one.

 

[Spareparts]

Cut the tongue off completely, straighten and square the trailer frame then replace the tongue and center the hitch off the front 2 spring bolts. You really want the tongue under the trailer frame unless you have dropped axles to get the right hitch height. The welds look kinda shaky, remember 10,000 lbs. is a lot of weight to come loose with faulty welding.

 

[chaosracing]

The outer rails are contiguous with the outer frame rail that runs the entire length of the trailer.

Is this a home built trailer? I have never seen a trailer built like that. You do not have a very tight turning radius with that set up. I would cut them off at the corners and just cut and remove the tounge and put a new one on. You will spend more time trying to straighten the frame then if you cut it off and replace it. You will also have a stronger frame as well, because now that the steel was bent, unless you plan on reinforcing the existing frame, is now weaker.

I would also check all existing welds while you are at it.

 

[shedfullatools]

As long as the frame is square corner to corner and the axles are still square to the frame, just cut that tongue off and fab up a new one. If many of the welds are cracked or to much is out of square it may be a lost cause Either way inspect every weld carefully before trusting it to much weight, one has already cracked. Lord knows how many more are on their way out...

 

[davejo]

Its titled as a "transport" trailer and has a factory looking printed VIN decal.

Thinking of disjointing the outer rails where they attach to the inner rails. Then cutting the inner rails off about a foot in front of where they attach to the deck crossbar. This would give me a chance to straighten the hitch triangle one channel at a time. The welding techniques to stitch it back together properly would be more forgiving, I think.

(**** weld vs tee weld)

Then gusset the now open triangle shapes together and perhaps running another channel under the whole thing to attach to the underside as suggested. That would triangulate the trailer deck as well

Seems like some 10K trailers are built with single channels while the 14K variants get the double depth tongue channels

 

[WhiffySpark]

That honestly doesn't look like a 10k trailer. What axles are on it?

 

[davejo]

You could be right, 6 lug axles, I'll see if I can read the axle tag, the vin decal is completely faded

 

[davejo]

Axle tag says Dexter 6000#. The outside rails are 5 inch channel, the inside are 4 and the crossmembers are 3. The deck has grown to 16 feet long in actuality, eyes were playing tricks on me

 

[chaosracing]

Can you post some more pics of the trailer. I have never seen a trailer manufactured like this. Thats why I asked about a homebuilt trailer. I wonder if VA classifies them as transport. If you have the title in hand, it should have the manufacturer listed on it.

I still think you are over thinking the whole process. Its much easier and quicker to just cut off all bent components and just replace with new steel. Do not forget, if you straighten the existing members and reinforce them, now you are adding more tounge weight as well.

 

[davejo]

 

[readhead]

It looks to be twisted front to rear also. The ramps look like they would be a pain the *** to hook up if the trailer is out of level. If you are married to this thing I would start by rebuilding the tongue and getting rid of the outside channels. Then study what you can do to straighten the frame. Lastly rework the ramps to make them more user friendly.

I just went back and looked at the first picture and realized that there is no frame below the deck. That is why the tongue is so odd. I think you are going to chase problems with this trailer forever. I would send it down the road and find another one or completely rebuild this one with a complete new frame under the deck frame.

 

[wasfuzz]

The ramps look like they would be a pain the *** to hook up if the trailer is out of level.

Ramps should be hooked up and then left on. You flip them up when you are done with them. That is a common design seen around here and if you really want to get it straight strip the deck off, take it to a Body Shop and have them put it on the frame rack. Then check all the welds, shoot it with some tractor paint reinstall the decking and use it!

 

[readhead]

I was thinking that the ramps should be on the trailer since one of our equipment trailers is set up like that. I think they might have removed them because the left one probably won't go down because of the bent deck.

 

[davejo]

My guess is that "Transport Trailers Inc." was probably a mom and pop that got sold or went out of business.

The tongue design isn't completely out of left field:

http://evington.americanlisted.com/...steel-deck-carequipment-trailer_25869601.html

https://02f0a56ef46d93f03c90-22ac5f...0170/IMG_0151_1_20160921-4118-wmig5c_960x.JPG

http://www.hudsontrailers.com/HSE_-_4_Ton_Capacity.html

http://www.appalachiantrailers.com/equipment-trailers/light-duty-equipment-trailer-7k

I'll get the tires matched up and see if the deck table warp goes away, front right is flat and left rear is mismatched.

 

[readhead]

The design is a cheap way to get a low deck height. It even says in your last link that it is a "light duty" design. The trailer appears to have been abused. Of course it can be repaired but how much time and money do you want to spend? If you're up for it than by all means go for it. Strip the wood off the deck, get it on some stands and make a good assessment of what you have to work with. If all goes well you will have a better trailer than what you started with.

 

[chaosracing]

I highly doubt that your trailer is rated 10,000 lbs. Someone down the road of ownership might have swapped out the axles.
Like readhead stated in a post above, the A frame does not go under the trailer. I am assuming thats why the outer frame rails were extended like that. Still not a very good style. It is a very light duty trailer and thats why its all twisted because someone thought other wise.

There are differences with the trailers in the links you provided and yours. The bottom 2, the Hudson and Appalachian trailers, the outer frame of the trailer is also the A frame of the trailer. Both are rated below 10,000 lbs. The other 2 are private sales and have no information. Again, the outer frame rails are extended to the A frame. There is no real structural advantage to that.

Does the title say its 10,000? Does your state require an inspection? If you need to have an inspection, then you might want to consider talking to an inspector before proceeding.

If no inspection and you are married to the trailer, then I would consider just putting A frame under the trailer. You can double stack C channel so you would not change the height of the trailer as it sits now. That is a common practice for new trailers with C channel that is 4" and they want the trailer to sit level and low.


The black trailer is my old one. As you can see, there is C channel stacked to do exactly like I am saying. The blue one in the back ground is my newer one (its actually 50+ years old) I have no close ups of the A frame, but even though it looks like the A frame stops at the front of the trailer, it extends almost halfway under the deck. That black one is rated 7000lbs, the blue one is rated 10,000 lbs.

 

[davejo]

Hi thanks for the pics. Stacked channels might be in the cards.

this is informative and entertaining. The design critiques are fun. I'm pretty sure whoever built it copied Hurst tongue design:

http://www.hursttrailers.net/gallery-trailers/?category=TRAILERS-TILT

I'm thinking the damage I show is from somebody backing into it jack knife style having little to do if it was overloaded, over rated or built as a budget design.

The title says its a 7K single axle trailer. The data that populates those fields is provided by the owner when you fill out the title application. You are charged a tax according to how much you register it for and you don't want to get weighed over what you have it registered for. Other than that, you can put anything on the form that you like. They have you guess what it weighs empty as well. I can register as a 12K if I wish. If a trooper stops me I can point to my axle tags and my 3000# rated tires. The VIN/GVWR label is illegible. maybe that's a violation, maybe the title I got was for a different trailer, too.

I'm definitely not married to this as I despise all forms of ramps. I bought it because it was cheap and didn't have the dreaded dayton wheels that every used equipment trailer around here comes with. I'll use it a bit and find something better. I am sort of a junk trailer afficionado.

 

[chaosracing]

Hi thanks for the pics. Stacked channels might be in the cards.

this is informative and entertaining. The design critiques are fun. I'm pretty sure whoever built it copied Hurst tongue design:

http://www.hursttrailers.net/gallery-trailers/?category=TRAILERS-TILT
The title says its a 7K single axle trailer. The data that populates those fields is provided by the owner when you fill out the title application. You are charged a tax according to how much you register it for and you don't want to get weighed over what you have it registered for. Other than that, you can put anything on the form that you like. They have you guess what it weighs empty as well. I can register as a 12K if I wish. If a trooper stops me I can point to my axle tags and my 3000# rated tires. The VIN/GVWR label is illegible. maybe that's a violation, maybe the title I got was for a different trailer, too.

Please do not bring that trailer into PA. You can not just register a trailer in PA at whatever you want, and something tells me, you really can't in VA either. You need to go off the manufacturers ratings since it was engineered and built to a specification to meet the weight requirements for the title. You can register any trailer or truck lower, but even if you load them to the specs and get pulled over, they will nail you for overloading.

Simply put, just because you have 3000# tires and 6000# axles simply does not mean squat. The rest of the trailer also has to be specifically engineered as well. My old trailer had mobile home axles and wheels and tires on it. So going by what you claim, I could have it titled at say 15,000#. But since it was not engineered for that, I would never dream of registering it that way. My current one was engineered for 10,000# It is well built and shows. I have more faith in it than some newer stuff. And I had to replace the axles, springs and hangers due to wear and age.
I am not saying the axles can not handle the weight or the tires, but the rest of that trailer screams 7000#. Even by all the links you have shown.

 

[davejo]

Why are you mad at this trailer? It has not insulted your nicer trailers. It has not thieved any potential loads away from yours, nor has it ever tried to sniff the rear end of your nicer Ford truck.


If you are just having fun in an academic way, I'm willing to argue your points.

If not, just think of this as an "undocumented" GVWR trailer and have a beer on me.

 

[chaosracing]

I am not mad at the trailer. I am mad at the fact of how little care for others you are showing with your attitude about this trailer. You are claiming you could title this trailer as a 12,000# due to the tires and axles under it. I am mearly stating a fact that in PA (and alot of other states) there is no way you could. Plus factor in the way its built and thats asking for a death sentence for someone on the road.
I have also pointed out the fact, as have others, that if you want to continue down the road with this trailer rehab, to please do it properly. When you use this trailer, it is not only your life you are putting in your hands, but also anyone else on the road that would be near it. I have seen a few trailers break because someone felt the same way you are and one seriously injured not only the tow vehicle driver, but also a driver and passenger in another vehicle.

Since the truck you have it attached to has a farm tag on it, if you are using it on the farm only, have at it. But if you plan on using it on the road (even for farm use), please rehab properly and do not take what many others have stated on here lightly.

And my nicer trailers?? I got rid of the one because of the amount of work involved and got the larger one. Its 50 years old and show it on some spots. Want to know something.....even with the broken, worn out hangers, brakes and wheels, I would still trust it more than some of the newer junk.

 

[csp]

The frame members of that trailer are smaller than my 7k trailer, which has the a-frame extended all the way to the rearmost axle.

Someone swapped 10k axles (combined) onto it.

 

[davejo]

I have given info as to what my experience with the DMV has been to explain that just because the title says this is a single axle trailer with a GVWR of 7000 pounds, it might in actuality be something different. This somehow is disregarding the safety of your family?

I have acknowledged the good suggestions given towards the actual question at hand, even yours about the stacked channels. This equates to me not wanting to fix it properly?

Why not give me design parameters like "DOT code dictates that 7 inch frame channels are required on all trailers claiming a 10K GVWR"?

I should let it go but what kind of loads was this designed for at 16 feet length, 3500 pound axles and angle iron, ground engaging ramps? Long things with big tires usually weigh more than 2 tons.

 

[davejo]

Cut the tongue off completely, straighten and square the trailer frame then replace the tongue and center the hitch off the front 2 spring bolts. You really want the tongue under the trailer frame unless you have dropped axles to get the right hitch height. The welds look kinda shaky, remember 10,000 lbs. is a lot of weight to come loose with faulty welding.

The front corners seem to be the weak spot on a lot of the broken trailers I have seen pics of. This one has shoddy weld repairs there as well. I thought preserving the outer frame rail that bends around the corner would eliminate one welded joint at that crucial point by moving the repair site to a different position, further forward on that rail. This is the reason the whole thing hasn't been chopped off yet. It's sort of an irreversible step

Adding another rail below the trailer deck would definitely stabilize the whole thing. It will also sacrifice some ground clearance there. Maybe the initial design is an attempt at low deck height combined with the ground clearance to negotiate rough worksites.

 

[readhead]

Adding a new frame would not reduce clearance. The springs would be attached to the new frame. What I and some others are suggesting is to place the existing deck on a new frame. The trailer will gain some height but be much more serviceable and the new tongue will allow a much better turning radius.

 

[chaosracing]

I have given info as to what my experience with the DMV has been to explain that just because the title says this is a single axle trailer with a GVWR of 7000 pounds, it might in actuality be something different. This somehow is disregarding the safety of your family?I am mearly stating facts based on PA (which I said before) DOT rules. What you are claiming means I could take a 1/2 ton truck, slap 1 ton rears under it and Load range E tires on it and have it classified as 1 ton. NO WAY. The frame was not designed for it. Same goes for your trailer.

I have acknowledged the good suggestions given towards the actual question at hand, even yours about the stacked channels. This equates to me not wanting to fix it properly?You said numerous times that you are probably going to fix what is bent. In the structural world of metal, once a structural component is bent or twisted, it is removed and replaced. Because the laws of Physics and metallurgy dictate that unless you reinforce the **** out of it, it will be much weaker than what was designed.

Why not give me design parameters like "DOT code dictates that 7 inch frame channels are required on all trailers claiming a 10K GVWR"? Since I do not have DOT design requirements I can not provide it, perhaps someone else can. What I am saying is since your trailer is registered as a 7000# and you can not say what is on a data plate, then your assumptions of a 10,000# trailer based on axles and tires is absolutly wrong. You have a 7000# trailer that someone upgraded axles and tires.

I should let it go but what kind of loads was this designed for at 16 feet length, 3500 pound axles and angle iron, ground engaging ramps? Long things with big tires usually weigh more than 2 tons.

Typical car trailers are only 7000# rated. Sub compact and compact tractors would even fit on them with no issues. With out knowing the design specs (since again you have no manufacturer data plate on the trailer) who knows what this trailer was spec'd out to really be. The problem is you have no clue what you really have. But considering all the links to similar trailers you posted, you have a 7000# trailer. Again, just because someone slapped 6000# axles and heavy duty tires under it means nothing in the DOT world. If you were to get pulled over and have a weight of 7000# on the trailer, plus the trailer weight, the cops will shut you down and make you call in a bigger trailer because your title and registration says 7000# GVW, they will care less about your axle rating and tire rating.

 

[davejo]

Adding a new frame would not reduce clearance. The springs would be attached to the new frame. What I and some others are suggesting is to place the existing deck on a new frame. The trailer will gain some height but be much more serviceable and the new tongue will allow a much better turning radius.

The thought has crossed my mind to do as you suggest, thanks.

A new frame approach could open up more options as well. As I stated my disdain for ramps, I could build the new frame like the tilt bed being discussed here at this very moment.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343575


https://trailerplans.com/component/.../car-haulers-dolly/aaPlan18HT-detail?Itemid=0

If you look at this build, you can see that he can make his trailer go from 7000 GVWR to 10400 GVWR just by installing bigger axles under it (may require clarification). Also noted is the use of C4 channel in the frame elements and possibly the tongue.

"Tongue will be C4x6.25 with 2 1/2" sch. 40 pipe for the hinge cross member. The plans rate there design for 10400lbs but I'm using to 3500 electric break axles so I'll be rated at 7k for now."

(This leaves me with the impression that two 4 inch channels might be capable of handling a 10k GVWR. )

 

[APEowner]

A little more food for thought. If just the tongue is bent then the trailer would tow offset but it wouldn't dog track. If it's really dog tracking the the whole frame is probably diamond shaped.

 

[davejo]

Diamond trapezoid

 

[f150skidoo]

If that was my trailer or I had to fix it for someone I would pull the axles off, remove all the wood decking, and cut off the tongue. Next would be to use a 2-4 ton come along and pull the frame back to square, weld on the new tongue which is under slung from the main frame rails and ties into the front spring hanger area, the tongue will hold the frame square.