Best ac type.

[dsimatt]

My hope is to get everyone opinons on the different ac systems and not start a war, i have a 1300sqft ranch with a 1/2 finshed basement under my living room and a bed room and have hot water heat.

I was leaning towards the ductless style only really due to their easier install but not sold on their cooling abilitys and looking ugly sticking out of the walls which i don't have many mounting options and quite expensive.

My buddy is getting his system replaced and talking to the lady about my place she says they would have no problem running ducts even in the finished part of my basement so i'd have alot more even cooling in my house and she said it would be cheaper than doing ductless which they sell to.

There is also the ducted in attic version but no one has anything good to say about those and not something i really will consider, so my main question is has what guys feeling are on each system.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You basically won't find anything with better electrical efficiency than a good inverter drive ductless split, but a good central system will usually have higher airflow volume & distribution. It all depends on what your priorities are.

Tommy

 

[Falcon67]

The old house had a Reem 10 SEER, 2.5 ton did really well mounted in a 1976 upright Carrier gas heater/air handler. 1500 sq/ft. Current house is 1660 sq/ft, uses a 3.5 ton Goodman. Unit is 10 years old. It was not cared for by previous owners so it's close to end of life thanks to that. The compressor isn't feeling well, but I might be able to just replace that. Cools fine but now struggles a bit when we pass 100F. Heats fine but uses a ton of power because it's just strip heat. Replacement cost of air handler with heat pump system in the 13~15 SEER range would be right around $8000. EVERYTHING down here is ducts in attic unless it's a mobile home. Insulated ducts in attic isn't that much of an issue if you take the time to seal the joints and the grill mounts to reduce air leakage. Sliding flex duct on an outlet and zipping it down with a giant tie wrap is only 1/2 done. You lose a ton of efficiency from duct and plenum leakage and from air leaks in the house.

The mini-splits work well and are very efficient - problem I see with "american" housing is that you need a unit/room to make it work. They work well in real open concept spaces.

 

[Jagmandave]

You're in Wisconsin, how much do you use A/C up there?

All summer, or just occasionally when you get a heat wave?

I'm in Kansas, and by July ours runs 24/7 till late September, some years the A/C goes on in early May.....some years we still have it on till Thanksgiving!

 

[dsimatt]

Like everyone here being energy efficent is important but flat out if i'm spending the money i want to be cold no matter how hot it is outside. My house is very closed concept and basically there is no good place to mount a ductless unit and their lack of air movement concerns me. We don't get into the 100s to much but are close enough and the humidity can be brutal, wether its a few weeks or a couple months it would be worth it.

The attic setup is pretty much not a option, freezing all winter then baking all summer seems to take a toll on them and my buddies grandpa had a ton of damage from a broken drain tube till it was to late and wrecked a couple of walls.

 

[Falcon67]

When you change the filter, you should check the drain. Basic mantenance. Also there should be a secondary drain that runs outside somewhere so that when you see drips out of that drain, you best go check things. A vertical system won't have that issue anyway.
Also, if it really freaks you out - get technology: http://www.watergard.net/pro-air-conditioning-condensation-control.html

We are fortunate IMHO that we have a vertical unit in a closet because it's way easier to service. Probably well over 80% of new homes all have it up in the attic here.

Not sure the reluctance to ducts - our old house had central heat/air installed in 1976 and it gets cold up there and 140F+ in the attic. Never had any issues with the insulated flexible ducting. Going to cost $$$ but they sell galvanized steel ducting too.

 

[dsimatt]

We are fortunate IMHO that we have a vertical unit in a closet because it's way easier to service. Probably well over 80% of new homes all have it up in the attic here.

Not sure the reluctance to ducts - our old house had central heat/air installed in 1976 and it gets cold up there and 140F+ in the attic. Never had any issues with the insulated flexible ducting. Going to cost $$$ but they sell galvanized steel ducting too.

I'm mostly going off what the lady told my friends that she highly recommends staying out of the attic, i want to find out what her main reasons are for that, also the big thing is i have 18+ inches of insulation up there so that would make a pretty big mess.

The vents in the ceiling make sense to with cold air falling, i guess either way will be labor intensive but will deliver better cooling than a non ducted system.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Also there should be a secondary drain that runs outside somewhere so that when you see drips out of that drain, you best go check things. A vertical system won't have that issue anyway.

I would add that upflow units also suffer from plugged condensate drains (in my experience, more often that horizontal flow units) & almost all the more recent units with plastic condensate pans have a secondary drain. The secondary drain should terminate in a conspicuous area, like out past the gutter or in front of a window so you can see it dripping. Overflow/emergency pans under the air handler are code in my area and many installers tee the drain line from the emergency pan to the same termination point as the secondary drain, down stream of the secondary drain trap, at a point where the line pitch is below the emergency pan.

Tommy

 

[Falcon67]

Ours has only a primary condensate drain and no pan. It's right next to the filter slot, so I always check it when replacing the filter. It's not very well plumbed and I should re-do it with second overflow that runs under the access door that faces the garage, like the drain from the water heater pan. Early warning system - trickle of water in the garage = trouble. The water heater plumbing was one of those "you gotta be kidding me" deals - sits next to the AC on the same raised plenum box and had the pressure relief and the overflow draining into the plenum. At least the AC condensate drains out of the house.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I have a 3 level 2300 sqft house. I have 4 zones of heat/ac. I did a lot of research before I got my system. It came down to volume in the end. I went with Payne and installed (2) 2 ton systems. 4 tons total. I am 5 yrs into having it. It works great. I did the install myself and had my buddy test and charge it.

My main concern was I didn't want to see anything except the vents and returns. I put everything where I wanted it. I ran the ducts and positioned the handlers where I wanted them. It took 2 solid days to install, but was not hard at all. They run off 220 and I was able to run the wires how I wanted them with the disconnects where I wanted them. I hid everything going back into the house in the gutter you see near the units.

Total price was just about 4k to do it. I got the system from another buddy who had them left over.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My buddy has hot water heat and a 1 story house. He had A/C installed a few years back. The air handler in in the attic and sends cold air down well insulated tube to approximate 2" holes in the ceiling.

 

[dsimatt]

I have a 3 level 2300 sqft house. I have 4 zones of heat/ac. I did a lot of research before I got my system. It came down to volume in the end. I went with Payne and installed (2) 2 ton systems. 4 tons total. I am 5 yrs into having it. It works great. I did the install myself and had my buddy test and charge it.

My main concern was I didn't want to see anything except the vents and returns. I put everything where I wanted it. I ran the ducts and positioned the handlers where I wanted them. It took 2 solid days to install, but was not hard at all. They run off 220 and I was able to run the wires how I wanted them with the disconnects where I wanted them. I hid everything going back into the house in the gutter you see near the units.

Total price was just about 4k to do it. I got the system from another buddy who had them left over.

Thats a pretty sweet deal you did and it helps doing the grunt work yourself, where did you run the vents and how big are they?

I'm goona have to upgrade my breaker box but i know a guy that does side work so thats no biggie and i wanna try to time the install on a slower time of year so maybe get a break there. Talking to you guys is nice with getting ideas and hearing it won't cost a arm and a leg to install this, were the mini splits got expensive fast.

 

[Falcon67]

Just be aware that if you don't have a connection to someone in the AC business, the likely hood of getting someone to power up and warranty a system they didn't install is about zero. ESPECIALLY if this is a whole system install and not just an air handler/a-coil swap. Vent sizing, air volume, CFM, etc is all in what is called "Manual J". This is part of what you pay for in an professional installation. You'd have to buy the equipment wholesale and probably off the web because most local wholesalers won't sell DIY AC. To replace the thermal limit switch in our old Carrier system I had to buy the part off the web. "No license, no sale". If you do find a seller local, expect "I'll sell it but no warranty and no refunds period". And check the fine print on the mfg warranty - many won't honor warranty on a DIY system. Catch 22.

 

[dsimatt]

It would definetly be installed by a prefessional for all the reasons you listed and all the venting i'd screw up it would probaly be cheaper in the end.

My friend offered me his old unit they are going to be replacing but it would be stupid to connect it to a brand new system.

 

[aone]

Just be aware that if you don't have a connection to someone in the AC business, the likely hood of getting someone to power up and warranty a system they didn't install is about zero. .... And check the fine print on the mfg warranty - many won't honor warranty on a DIY system. Catch 22.

This is true. The Mitsubishi system I want to get, warranty will void if not installed by an a/c company.

Supposed I become certified (by passing the 608 and type II), can I install it and get the warranty?

 

[Falcon67]

It would definetly be installed by a prefessional for all the reasons you listed and all the venting i'd screw up it would probaly be cheaper in the end.

My friend offered me his old unit they are going to be replacing but it would be stupid to connect it to a brand new system.

Take the unit and sell it, make some cash for your project. If it's a smaller 24K~30K unit you might find a GJ type locally that would love to have it for their shop. I missed a deal recently on a 24K upright takeout for $800.

 

[dsimatt]

Take the unit and sell it, make some cash for your project. If it's a smaller 24K~30K unit you might find a GJ type locally that would love to have it for their shop. I missed a deal recently on a 24K upright takeout for $800.

I never thought of that, i'll have to see if the company is taking it as part of the deal, i know his dad wanted it for scrapping out but he doesn't wanna do that.

 

[dsimatt]

This is true. The Mitsubishi system I want to get, warranty will void if not installed by an a/c company.

Supposed I become certified (by passing the 608 and type II), can I install it and get the warranty?

When i looked into the mitsubishi systems if you have one of their 5 star qualifed dealer install it you get a couple more years warranty for free so something i'd look into because the repair prices can get big i've heard.

 

[aone]

When i looked into the mitsubishi systems if you have one of their 5 star qualifed dealer install it you get a couple more years warranty for free so something i'd look into because the repair prices can get big i've heard.

I will, thanks.

 

[dsimatt]

I will, thanks.

Its definetly something to look into and being that they probaly do alot the install should go pretty decent i would think, i'm not 100% on how much the warranty extends but i wanna say 2 years.

I'm sold on the mini splits efficency but the problem with my place is the lack of openness and where i could place the head units i wouldn't be satisfied with the cooling ecspecially for the cost to get them.

 

[parteek]

The most common type, window-mounted units temporarily slide into double-hung window openings. You can buy a cooling-only unit or a cooling/heating unit for supplemental heat if your home is located in an area with moderate temperatures.
vashikaran mantra