Best Air Conditioner Brand

[BleedingBlue]

It looks like my 13 year old 3 ton Trane AC unit is on its last leg and will need replaced, so I am hoping to get some insight on what brand is the best to replace it with.

I live in Indiana, so it gets fairly hot and humid here in the summers. Not uncommon to see 95- 100 degree days.

Thanks!


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[Rockhead261]

what brand is the best

Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge vs. etc etc. etc.....

The cheapest equipment installed by the best tech will outperform the most expensive equipment installed by a cheap tech. Get a few estimates from reputable contractors and go with what they recommend.

 

[Schurkey]

Wild guess: There is no "best". There is an abundance of barely-adequate ****, fifty brand names sourced from five different parent companies and then badge-engineered into different market categories, each trying to eat each other's lunch.

My Bryant is a misrepresented piece of ****. The "heavy-duty" "maintenance-free" (according to the owner's manual) HVAC blower motor uses an oily tampon to keep the plain bushings lubed. Anyone with a brain would use sealed roller bearings. When the tampons dried out, the bushings and journals scored and the blower stopped. Disassembly, cleaning, and re-oiling gained another two months' use from the scored bushings and shaft.

Don't get me started on the matching Bryant electronic air cleaner that's cooked two $700 circuit boards stuffed with $25 worth of electronic parts, and a fuse soldered directly to the board so that it's not intended to be replaced. The way Bryant/Carrier engineers it, you're supposed to buy another $700 circuit board to get a fresh fuse.

Bryant is one of more than a dozen brand names that are part of the Carrier corporation, which itself is owned by UTC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Corporation

You've been warned about Carrier. But I have no hope that any of the others are genuinely better. If there's a high-quality unit available, I'd love to know about it.

 

[texas123]

Here's some pictures of both my Lennox evap coils after 3.5 years in the Houston area. Hope this helps. I live in an 18 home cul de sac; half of us had this same issue with Lennox.

 

[Norcal]

Here's some pictures of both my Lennox evap coils after 3.5 years in the Houston area. Hope this helps. I live in an 18 home cul de sac; half of us had this same issue with Lennox.

A nickname for Lennox is "Lemonix".

 

[77thor]

Hmmmm... My Lennox central A/C lasted over 26 years.

 

[BleedingBlue]

Here's some pictures of both my Lennox evap coils after 3.5 years in the Houston area. Hope this helps. I live in an 18 home cul de sac; half of us had this same issue with Lennox.

Whoa - thats crazy. Definitely staying away from Lennox


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[BleedingBlue]

Wild guess: There is no "best". There is an abundance of barely-adequate ****, fifty brand names sourced from five different parent companies and then badge-engineered into different market categories, each trying to eat each other's lunch.

My Bryant is a misrepresented piece of ****. The "heavy-duty" "maintenance-free" (according to the owner's manual) HVAC blower motor uses an oily tampon to keep the plain bushings lubed. Anyone with a brain would use sealed roller bearings. When the tampons dried out, the bushings and journals scored and the blower stopped. Disassembly, cleaning, and re-oiling gained another two months' use from the scored bushings and shaft.

Don't get me started on the matching Bryant electronic air cleaner that's cooked two $700 circuit boards stuffed with $25 worth of electronic parts, and a fuse soldered directly to the board so that it's not intended to be replaced. The way Bryant/Carrier engineers it, you're supposed to buy another $700 circuit board to get a fresh fuse.

Bryant is one of more than a dozen brand names that are part of the Carrier corporation, which itself is owned by UTC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Corporation

You've been warned about Carrier. But I have no hope that any of the others are genuinely better. If there's a high-quality unit available, I'd love to know about it.

I was trying to do some research and carrier seems to be well regarded from what I was seeing. Wonder if it is just the best of the worst.

My trane is 13 years old and we havent had any issues in the 3 years we have had it. Guessing it is a middle of the road brand


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[brewchief]

Whoa - thats crazy. Definitely staying away from Lennox


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Lennox had coil problems a few years back, they have switched to an aluminum coil for all of the separate coil applications, we see very few air handlers so I don't know if they have switched those over completely.

You will see failures in all brands, some are equipment related and some are install related.

 

[yeldogt]

Everything in this world has to be built to a price point .. this causes every manufacturer to have issues from time to times on some components.

I have used Carrier the most -- they make nice equipment. I think the best zoning control currently.

All the majors make more than one line -- there has been a lot of advancement recently.

 

[engineer2]

My Comfortmaker gas furnace and AC unit are 26 years old. No repairs other than a couple of igniters and flame sensors, plus normal oiling and cleaning. Easy to work on, but older 78% efficiency. The problem is I will be forced to shell out $5K to replace the furnace and AC to make the house salable someday.

 

[bonneyman]

Back before 2000 there were brands that stood out on certain products. Nobody did every unit great. Carrier made nice furnaces, Trane made good heat pumps, Rheem did good straight A/C's. My opinion, of course.

Now it's been a race to the bottom to see who can make the cheapest unit that will sell for big $$$ and last long enough to get through the warranty. More and more high tech **** has only added to the fiasco. (I have heard good things about Daikin - but no personal experience).
The advice you had earlier with the cheapest unit installed by a good tech is the best advice out there.

 

[bonneyman]

My Bryant is a misrepresented piece of ****. The "heavy-duty" "maintenance-free" (according to the owner's manual) HVAC blower motor uses an oily tampon to keep the plain bushings lubed. Anyone with a brain would use sealed roller bearings. When the tampons dried out, the bushings and journals scored and the blower stopped. Disassembly, cleaning, and re-oiling gained another two months' use from the scored bushings and shaft.

You've been warned about Carrier. But I have no hope that any of the others are genuinely better. If there's a high-quality unit available, I'd love to know about it.

In the old days I used to pop the end caps off of "permanently lubricated" motors and add a 75/25 mixture of Zoom Spout turbine oil/Supco 88 oil enhancer. Motor bearings lasted forever, even stuck bearings once freed up worked for several years.
But I noticed after about 2012 or so motor bearings not lasting any longer after my treatment. Figured out newer motors have thinner/lower quality bronze bushings and are lubed with an oil (synthetic I believe) that repels petroleum-based oils so even if you add oil it doesn't penetrate to the bearing interface. So I check nameplates, and don't lube motors on units newer than 2012 anymore.

http://www.supco.com/web/supco_live/products/S8.html

 

[bobbyjean]

agree with Rockhead's post.... sized/installed properly is key...
bonneyman-thats good info on bearing quality....kinda coincides with the big push on ecm motor's..guess that is for another thread

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge vs. etc etc. etc.....

The cheapest equipment installed by the best tech will outperform the most expensive equipment installed by a cheap tech. Get a few estimates from reputable contractors and go with what they recommend.

X2. In terms of an actual product, being the biggest/longest in business/having the most sales does not always equate to being the best when it comes to anything. Installation is a big factor.

I will add that my experience has been from a service tech's & reliability point of view I like Trane. Carrier has been a pain in terms of servicing them and somewhat iffy on reliability. Lennox was at the bottom of my list, but still above all the others that aren't made by the major brands.

Tommy

 

[6768rogues]

My experience is that Lennox parts are hard to come by for a repair guy who is not a Lennox dealer. Other brands have parts available to independent repair people.

 

[95vette]

Hello, Love my American Standard best money I have ever spent!!

 

[Lassen Forge]

I like Carrier myself, but I know how to work with them. Went to a maintenance and repair school for them as part of a temp job between jobs (this was years ago), still, the commercial units are a little better than the "homeowner" units. The biggest issue is the quality on all of them has dropped... doesn't matter whose, it seems anymore you get lucky and get one that's right, or you get one that's a lemon.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Hello, Love my American Standard best money I have ever spent!!

American Standard and Trane are identical. They're made on the same assembly line in Texas by Ingersoll-Rand...

Tommy

 

[yeldogt]

Many like to think everything lasted longer in the old days ... but, my experience says otherwise .. with almost everything. Most systems run for years w/o issue and the real dollar costs have dropped exponentially over the past 40 years.

Trane at one time made the compressors in house (reciprocating) -- now you can find numerous manufacturers of compressors throughout a range of producers. When I was looking at Trane last year they used the scroll VS in the better units -- from what I am told they don't make any compressors. I can't tell you if there is any difference between the Scroll compressor in the Trane vs the Carrier VS any other manufacturer that uses them.

 

[Done That]

Trane at one time made the compressors in house (reciprocating) -- now you can find numerous manufacturers of compressors throughout a range of producers. When I was looking at Trane last year they used the scroll VS in the better units -- from what I am told they don't make any compressors. I can't tell you if there is any difference between the Scroll compressor in the Trane vs the Carrier VS any other manufacturer that uses them.

To the best of my knowledge Trane still makes their orange climatuff recips but moved them from Tyler TX to mexico. Their standard scroll compressors are made at Alliance compressor in Natchitoches LA, a joint deal with Copeland.

I'm not sure about their VS compressor, but would guess Copeland. Copeland does makes the Carrier VS and the inverter drive.

 

[BleedingBlue]

It’s interesting how important installation to the conversation. I know nothing about installing an ac, but it seems pretty straightforward since there aren’t many connections to make. Obviously having the right size unit is key, but I would think the original builder uses the right size unit most of the time.


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[alexb2000]

I just replaced my 1995 Carrier 5 ton that I have maintained myself the last 15 years, with a Lennox XC20 viable speed 5 ton.

I am really happy so far (time will tell).

I spent months researching all of this and here's my .02

All of the high efficiency units are complicated and WILL be expensive to repair. That and they will require proprietary parts that only a dealer can source.

So as a DIY minded guy this P.O.ed me, but that's the way it is.

So, here's what I did..

I went through Costco because they gave me 10% back, plus another 3% because I am an executive member and I use their CC. Their deal is with Lennox.

I got the longest possible warranty I could find for the unit 10 years parts and 5 years labor. This requires you can PROVE you had the unit maintained by a dealer (most brands now do), so as part of my deal I pay $11 a month and the dealer comes twice a year and does a full service.

In Texas Oncor gave me $1300 if I got a 18 seer or higher unit which helped offset the cost considerably. You might see if anyone is offering $ in your area.

I can get another $300 from the feds on my taxes if I can prove the unit is energy star compliant (easy with the high seer stuff).

It ended up costing me about $13.5K out of pocket turnkey including a lot of duct re-work, returns, etc.

These new DC units are so quiet you can hardly hear them run standing next to them, nice if the unit is by a bedroom. They can also run from about 20% to 100% percent so in spring and fall they can run at a lower rate saving $.

My problem is often humidity related vs. temperature. These variable speed units are excellent and removing humidity without making the house too cold.

I would go with whatever major brand you can make a deal on, get serviced by a good dealer, and get a LONG warranty.

Hope this helps.

 

[danski0224]

It looks like my 13 year old 3 ton Trane AC unit is on its last leg and will need replaced, so I am hoping to get some insight on what brand is the best to replace it with.

I live in Indiana, so it gets fairly hot and humid here in the summers. Not uncommon to see 95- 100 degree days.

Thanks!


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The name on the box is secondary to the installation.

A load calculation should be performed.

The ductwork needs to be evaluated. TESP (total external static pressure) needs to be within design limits, which is typically 0.5" of water column for residential systems. No, I'm not explaining it for you. Educate yourself.

Go ahead and research an installation manual for a split HVAC system condenser, and read it. Become familiar with it (instead of relying on free no effort advice here), and then ask the installers if they follow the procedures in the manual.

Be warned that high SEER HVAC equipment needs proper airflow to attain the claimed ratings and efficiency. Those that have an octopus flex monster in the attic, undersized metal ductwork, and/or 5 tons of AC being sucked through a 16" x 25" pleated air filter are doomed to failure.

Improperly installed so-called high efficiency HVAC equipment will actually cost MORE to operate.

Proposals/estimates/bids that do not mention a load calculation or ductwork changes as part of the scope of work are most likely poor quality.

Others that wax poetically about their old/ancient equipment that hasn't had any problems also need to be ignored. The stuff has changed since then.

 

[danski0224]

It’s interesting how important installation to the conversation. I know nothing about installing an ac, but it seems pretty straightforward since there aren’t many connections to make. Obviously having the right size unit is key, but I would think the original builder uses the right size unit most of the time.


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Two big glaring huge ASSumptions there.

Properly installing an AC takes time, and piecework paid residential HVAC employees are not given time by their boss. It only has to last a year.

The builder has subcontractors install to code (the legal minimum) as cheaply as possible.

Yes, there are good subcontractors (HVAC and otherwise) and good builders, but they are greatly outnumbered by those that aren't good.

 

[justsam]

I had three Goodman units at my home in Dallas in the early 2000's, upstairs, downstairs, and master bedroom. These were contractor grade units in a 5000 sq ft production home. Over a ten year time period, two of the units had a start capacitor fail, and one of them had an evaporator leak.

Most will tell you Goodman, aka Janitrol/Junkatrol, are garbage. I think it is really because some dealers sold directly to consumers, cutting out the pros. They may well be junk but I think what has happened is that most manufacturers have now sunk to the same level. I now have a pretty new Bryant, and compressor died in the first year. Compressor was made by LG.

Some higher dollar items such as variable fan speeds can make the home more comfortable, and of course newer units are more efficient, but don't get oversold on SEER ratings. Good reputable pros install good reputable equipment in the proper manner. Don't go for low bidder.

 

[bonneyman]

It’s interesting how important installation to the conversation. I know nothing about installing an ac, but it seems pretty straightforward since there aren’t many connections to make. Obviously having the right size unit is key, but I would think the original builder uses the right size unit most of the time.


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That's what you'd think, but "installing" an A/C is much more than just attaching it to the ductwork and hooking up the electrical.

If it's a package unit things are a bit easier, but split systems with lines sets require purging, proper evacuation, and precise charging. Older R-22 systems were fairly forgiving - the new R-410a units are NOT.
In addition, newer units with high efficiency blowers require properly sized ductwork and precise balancing. Both of which are quite lacking in most homes.
And one can't assume the original installer put the right size unit on the house. Many times tract builders bought their units in bulk - there were 100 homes in the subdivision, they ordered 100 units. And just because the model home is comfortable - and even if all the homes are the same square footage - doesn't mean that all the other houses will be comfy. Lots of things among the homes differ - North/South orientation, corner location, trees or lack thereof, different styles of windows, etc.
I've seen situations where next door neighbors with the exact same floor plan have totally different conditions inside. One is nice, next door gets too hot a month or two out of the year. The one house might be on a corner - getting full sun exposure on the west side - whereas his neighbors house is shaded on their west side - by his house! The one house probably needed a 3.5 ton system, but the builder bought all 3 tons. So he "made it work".
All in all you need a reputable, knowledgeable dealer with dedicated technicians to do the work. I know that's a tall order in today's world but you're gambling with a big $$$ item if you don't.

 

[BleedingBlue]

All great advice so far - thanks guys. I figured my ASSumptions were wrong, which is why I am glad there are many intelligent people on this forum.

I definitely plan to ask for a TESP test. I dont plan to spend a ton on a high SEER system - based on what I have been reading it will take a long time to recoup that investment, if you do at all.

Right now I have two local companies in mind to give me quotes (both are highly regarded from what I can tell)




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[bonneyman]

All great advice so far - thanks guys. I figured my ASSumptions were wrong, which is why I am glad there are many intelligent people on this forum.

I definitely plan to ask for a TESP test. I dont plan to spend a ton on a high SEER system - based on what I have been reading it will take a long time to recoup that investment, if you do at all.

Right now I have two local companies in mind to give me quotes (both are highly regarded from what I can tell)




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Don't knock your self too hard. No question is a stupid question.

I've done HVAC for 30 years, glad to know I could help someone. Even if he is a stranger to me out in internet land.

Check with the local BBB and registrar of contractors. Lots of companies sound good - these two organizations do research and policing of companies and will know things word of mouth won't reveal.

 

[engineer2]

Forgot to mention, I think Comfortmaker might be the same as Goodman. I have had to replace the AC start capacitor a couple of times until I went to the higher voltage version. Amazingly, Grainger has good prices on motor capacitors.

 

[brewchief]

Forgot to mention, I think Comfortmaker might be the same as Goodman. I have had to replace the AC start capacitor a couple of times until I went to the higher voltage version. Amazingly, Grainger has good prices on motor capacitors.

Comfortmaker is an ICP brand along with Arco-air, Tempstar and Heil.
ICP is owned by the same parent company as Carrier, Bryant and Payne.

Goodman bought Amana some years back and then was bought up by Daikin.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The best one is the one your service guys has a good supply of spare parts !

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The best one is the one your service guys has a good supply of spare parts !

No service company stocks a whole lot of parts anymore. You have to pay taxes on them just to have them sit on the warehouse shelves. They're chewing into the profit more each day they sit there until you need them. Techs go right to the supply house.

Tommy

 

[Trey T]

Costco sells Lennox so it has to be very good for them to endorse it.

I like Goodman. I service and install for my own use so I'm biased to them

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Costco sells Lennox so it has to be very good for them to endorse it.

I like Goodman. I service and install for my own use so I'm biased to them

Costco goes by volume pricing and they buy by lot and sell until they run out. They sell Lennox today. They may sell something else tomorrow...

Tommy

 

[Norcal]

Costco sells Lennox so it has to be very good for them to endorse it.

I like Goodman. I service and install for my own use so I'm biased to them

Just because Costco sells something does not necessarily make it good, they pushed American Express, & Amex is worthless.

 

[yeldogt]

To the best of my knowledge Trane still makes their orange climatuff recips but moved them from Tyler TX to mexico. Their standard scroll compressors are made at Alliance compressor in Natchitoches LA, a joint deal with Copeland.

I'm not sure about their VS compressor, but would guess Copeland. Copeland does makes the Carrier VS and the inverter drive.

Did not think Trane used the reciprcating compressors anymore ...... ??

The joint ventures confuse the situation -- Is Trane making the same compressor with Copeland as Carrier? The controls are different.

 

[yeldogt]

The discussion of installation being most important refers to the whole job ... no unit is going to work properly with incorrect ductwork .... and most houses have very poor ductwork. Especially old houses that have been retrofitted or any house full of flex ducts.

The other misconception is why buy better equipment. The higher priced equipment is about comfort ... yes, they save energy .. but they really are about comfort. Quiet, even temps.

very few house are not going to benefit from the better equipment ..if comfort is the goal.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

My Comfortmaker gas furnace and AC unit are 26 years old. No repairs other than a couple of igniters and flame sensors, plus normal oiling and cleaning. Easy to work on, but older 78% efficiency. The problem is I will be forced to shell out $5K to replace the furnace and AC to make the house salable someday.

Comfortmaker and Arco-Aire were made by Snyder General until, I believe, 2008. The ICP units today that are badged Comfortmaker, look far better than the old SG units, simply going by condenser standards. Always thought my SG condenser looked incredibly cheap, especially the way the fins were nearly unprotected. But, I can't argue the quality of manufacture. I bought my unit in the 80s, an 87% efficiency forced draft unit, and when I sold the house in 2014, it was still plugging away, still working perfectly, and the only thing I ever replaced on it, service-call wise was one spark igniter over 20 years ago. No idea what they're like now.

 

[alex3610]

I used to help out a friend that did HVAC work as a side business. He claimed now more than ever the different brands are more similar than not. He installs Goodman primarily. Parts are reasonable and easy to find almost anywhere. 10 year warranty, however make sure you register for the warranty otherwise I believe it defaults back to only 5 years. He replaced plenty of high dollar Trane's and other brands that had died after 12 or 13 years and always complained about how expensive parts were for them. I feel like we ran into a lot of dead Carrier stuff (and their associated brands) but that's an anecdotal observation at best.

My house currently has a pair of Trane heat pumps that are about 12 years old now and one has a bunch of issues. I will probably replace it with a goodman when the time comes.

As others have mentioned, the quality of the installer can make an awful big difference on the life of the system.