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BleedingBlue

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Dec 27, 2012
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Indianapolis
I am leaning towards replacing the unit bc even if it gets fixed for $1k I could obviously have more problems in the near future.

It’s definitely a tough call, but I dont want to throw good money after bad. I am getting a quote for a new unit tomorrow, guessing it will be $3,500ish.

Tons of great insight and conversation so far. I always try to work on my house myself, but this is above my depth....which is frustrating.




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BleedingBlue

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Indianapolis

eddieK

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Mar 2, 2017
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Location
Nampa Idaho
I am leaning towards replacing the unit bc even if it gets fixed for $1k I could obviously have more problems in the near future.

It’s definitely a tough call, but I dont want to throw good money after bad. I am getting a quote for a new unit tomorrow, guessing it will be $3,500ish.

Tons of great insight and conversation so far. I always try to work on my house myself, but this is above my depth....which is frustrating.




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It's not a great idea to ONLY replace the outdoor unit. If you can get the FAU, the evap coil and the outdoor unit replaced for $3,500.00 I would be shocked.
 

eddieK

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Mar 2, 2017
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695
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Nampa Idaho
What will that repair cost all in?


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Yours should range between $600.00 and $900.00. In this case my price not to exceed was met, ($750.00) Then $1,900.00 to replace coil and complete start up (nitro test, evacuate, charge and materials etc) In case like yours I provide a total to the customer before work begins, with a price NOT TO EXCEED. I only work by referral so I don't put this in writing, but I could. I have a reputation to uphold and I want (and typically do have) customers for life. Most of what I do with homeowners is handshake agreements, based upon my credibility. Most times I come in lower than my price not to exceed, sometimes I end up billing less than the final work entailed, but I had a price not to exceed for a particular portion or complete project.

In that particular job, I had three separate visits to finally nail down precisely where the leak was, through process of elimination. Once the coil was found to be the source my verbal estimate to replace the coil and get it all on line had already been discussed (When it looked like I would have to separate the system to isolate the leak I brought it up and reminded them they had aluminum evap coils - 2 zones)). I had brought this up to the homeowner when I had completed their initial equipment data sheets a few years previously. They had forgotten this but it was clearly on the notes I had on those sheets. Noting that the indoor coils were aluminum and in my professional experience they are prone to premature failures. These coils were ALLSTYLE brand.

I always recommend against aluminum coils as coil failures before manufacturers went to them, were pretty rare.

If I remember correctly you have a 13 yr old Trane system, proper care (especially filter changes) should provide you with an additional 15 yrs, maybe more.
 
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bonneyman

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Desert SW
It's not a great idea to ONLY replace the outdoor unit. If you can get the FAU, the evap coil and the outdoor unit replaced for $3,500.00 I would be shocked.

I'm thinking the same thing. Last time I condemned a unit (A rooftop gas pac 2 1/2 tons) the lady called my back for a second opinion as she had 3 quotes that were between $8,000 and $11,000.
Prices are freaking unbeliveble any more.
 

eddieK

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Mar 2, 2017
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Location
Nampa Idaho
I'm thinking the same thing. Last time I condemned a unit (A rooftop gas pac 2 1/2 tons) the lady called my back for a second opinion as she had 3 quotes that were between $8,000 and $11,000.
Prices are freaking unbeliveble any more.

I've seen quotes way, way up there, one for a 4 ton, 14 SEER complete system that I had previously quoted at $7,000.00...for $18,000.00.
 

yeldogt

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Aren't you in the industry? $500.00 may seem a little high, but a decent shop will charge ~$90.00/hour. Performing a good leak test takes tim. You have to disassemble or open up the indoor and outdoor units in order to get at all the possible leak areas, remove the insulation at areas where you suspect there is a joint and put it all back together again.There's also cost of materials and equipment use.



30+ years of experience... :lol: Seriously, Bleeding Blue says it was at 18# static. That tells me it's a good sized leak since he also says it's run for the last 3 years without needing to add refrigerant (assuming someone actually checked operating pressures each year). A minor leak will usually only need a little squirt every year or so.

Tommy

Not in the industry .. own a fair amount of RE. With what the OP was describing it did not sound like it should have been that much ($500 more) to check around for a leak. It sounded like the guy did not even try
 

yeldogt

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Jan 2, 2012
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18,184
I am leaning towards replacing the unit bc even if it gets fixed for $1k I could obviously have more problems in the near future.

It’s definitely a tough call, but I dont want to throw good money after bad. I am getting a quote for a new unit tomorrow, guessing it will be $3,500ish.

Tons of great insight and conversation so far. I always try to work on my house myself, but this is above my depth....which is frustrating.




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Yes you could ... and how long for the heater? I think you many be shocked at the cost. I don't know the typical life of that era Trane evaporator -- or if they had any particular problems. You could go on the HVAC forum and ask -- it's not a DIY site .. but they do have a homeowner area where you could ask simple questions.

Ask: I have X model .. it's down on charge. Debating on what to do .. you may get someone who works on them to say. Trane had this or that problem -- Typically it's this issue. Or .. that model was junk and don't fix it.
 

LS6 Tommy

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Dec 27, 2013
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26,162
Location
Northern NJ
It's not a great idea to ONLY replace the outdoor unit. If you can get the FAU, the evap coil and the outdoor unit replaced for $3,500.00 I would be shocked.

He can't replace just the outdoor unit if he doesn't stay with R22...

Tommy
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
I am leaning towards replacing the unit bc even if it gets fixed for $1k I could obviously have more problems in the near future.

It’s definitely a tough call, but I dont want to throw good money after bad. I am getting a quote for a new unit tomorrow, guessing it will be $3,500ish.

Tons of great insight and conversation so far. I always try to work on my house myself, but this is above my depth....which is frustrating.

Same - we could have tried a new compressor for around $1200, but the heating was 12,500 watts of strip and the unit had not been cared for in the years before we got there. Also discovered that the outdoor unit and the indoor air handler were not speced for each other - somebody got a deal on some parts. So $6500 fixed the entire issue.
 

bonneyman

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Apr 22, 2010
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Location
Desert SW
OP, there's gotta be an honest company in your locale that can lay it out for you. Forum members can help alot, we do have alot of experience it seems, and we're willing to assist. But you need a local guy you can trust to do the actual work. There's alot of con artists out there - finding the good guy isn't easy.
 
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BleedingBlue

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Indianapolis
Ok - so I have two quotes.

First is from a local company that is highly regarded. Have a 2 man crew that do all their installs.

Quote will replace AC unit with Trane XR13 3 ton $3,741 or XR14 heat pump for $4,600. Both include replacing inside coil. Detail from them below.

Based on his load calculation he said we could use a 2.5ton (have a 3 ton now), but a 3 ton would also be fine. House is 2600 sq ft above grade and 800 sq ft basement.

Your installation includes:
Outside: Remove old unit, pad, disconnect & electrical whip. Install new outside unit, equipment pad, snow legs, electrical whip & disconnect, exterior lineset insulation, and new copper lineset.

Inside: Remove old unit, coil, filter box, & base. Install new inside all aluminum coil, steel base, steel plenum connections, 5” EZ change filter box & filter, sealed plenum connections,
modifications as required for gas, exhaust, electrical, drain & ductwork, & 1-year maintenance plan with 24/7 support.

10 year warranty on parts. Can add humidifier for $425

Second is a very small company that a friend of a friend owns. Much less formal quote.

He will replace outside unit and inside coil with a 3 ton Tempstar for $2,800. 10 year on parts and 3 on labor.

Thoughts?

I wasnt considering a heat pump, but he said based on our gas and electric costs we would save roughly $500/year with the heat pump.


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BleedingBlue

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This tech also said the builder used a cheap inside coil (not Trane) and that is why it failed prematurely.


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yeldogt

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Jan 2, 2012
Messages
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This tech also said the builder used a cheap inside coil (not Trane) and that is why it failed prematurely.


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SO -- Someone did find the leak inside ....??

I'm sure being able to find a suitable replacement coil is impossible at this point ... someone more knowledge will know.

Do you have NG .. heat pumps are great ... and they make sense with propane. You would have to factor the costs.

I'm afraid you are going to get this working and the heater will go in 5 years. How long in the house going forward.
 

eddieK

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Mar 2, 2017
Messages
695
Location
Nampa Idaho
Ok - so I have two quotes.

First is from a local company that is highly regarded. Have a 2 man crew that do all their installs.

Quote will replace AC unit with Trane XR13 3 ton $3,741 or XR14 heat pump for $4,600. Both include replacing inside coil. Detail from them below.

Based on his load calculation he said we could use a 2.5ton (have a 3 ton now), but a 3 ton would also be fine. House is 2600 sq ft above grade and 800 sq ft basement.

Your installation includes:
Outside: Remove old unit, pad, disconnect & electrical whip. Install new outside unit, equipment pad, snow legs, electrical whip & disconnect, exterior lineset insulation, and new copper lineset.

Inside: Remove old unit, coil, filter box, & base. Install new inside all aluminum coil, steel base, steel plenum connections, 5” EZ change filter box & filter, sealed plenum connections,
modifications as required for gas, exhaust, electrical, drain & ductwork, & 1-year maintenance plan with 24/7 support.

10 year warranty on parts. Can add humidifier for $425

Second is a very small company that a friend of a friend owns. Much less formal quote.

He will replace outside unit and inside coil with a 3 ton Tempstar for $2,800. 10 year on parts and 3 on labor.

Thoughts?

I wasnt considering a heat pump, but he said based on our gas and electric costs we would save roughly $500/year with the heat pump.


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Wow...those are some pretty low quotes and the sizing seems small. If you add a heat pump (I think that is a much more efficient way to go) make sure it includes 5 kw or 7.5 kw heat strips, not so much for "emergency" heat, but to provide heat when the unit goes into defrost, this gives you some heat when unit is in defrost and it speeds up defrost time.

If you are heating and cooling about 3,000 sf 3 ton is too small...The system air delivery MUST match the tonnage rating...400 cfm per 1200 btu's or you are just creating a situation that will cost you a lot of money down the road.

I strongly urge against all aluminum coils...especially outside. Lennox manufactured (Aire Flo brand)and BDP brand Payne in my zone (southern Cal) have still got copper tube aluminum fin construction.
 
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Jakemedic

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Jul 26, 2013
Messages
722
Location
Cornfields of SE Iowa
My 30:year old Rudd gave out last week. I brought the trusted hvac guy in my town out. He replaced the capacitor then figured out I needed a compressor. Instead of doing that, he recommended an American Standard unit. Thank God it’s coming Thursday, been hotter than hell here this summer. He said 10 year parts (and I believe labor) warranty. I asked about high efficiency units to gain rebates. He advised against it. Said spend thousands to get hundreds. Out the door price of 3500.00. Considering I was expecting 5000, I was pleasantly surprised. That includes everything including new plastic base. From banging on their website, it should be at least 40% more efficient than my existing Rudd. Oh the central air is not really noticed till you don’t have it. Good luck!
 

yeldogt

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Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
The need/ desire for better equipment has multiple drivers. One should always check rebates .. some states like one of mine (NJ) have programs in place with thousands of dollars available. In states with high rebates the lower cost equipment is actually more expensive as it will not get the rebates.

The better equipment is quiet -- all of the newer equipment is going to make less noise vs the loudest equipment of 20 years ago. But, if you need to place a condenser outside of a bedroom, near a deck or other outdoor space. Look into the noise levels .... My carrier 5 speed units running on high make almost no noise. No need to place them in spots not ideal for operation to keep them quiet.

Finally -- it's humidity. Proper sizing is always important -- just copy what equipment is in the house and you most likely will oversize. Too big is common with both heat and cool --- oversized AC in humid climate will not be as comfortable.

All equipment needs to be installed properly ... the newer multi stage equipment can actually fix many issues (bad ductwork). Unfortunately -- in many ways there is more money to be made switching out simple equipment. No thought -- no issues (except those you had before). Guys not wanting to install the better equipment always talk about cost ... cost of the equipment and cost of operation. The better equipment is not about saving money .... they do use less power -- but, the real reason is comfort

It's like Mini splits -- look at all the resistance and bad mouthing that has go on with them for 20 years .... now they are taking over.
 

Schurkey

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Oct 27, 2011
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2,370
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The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
Another thread drug up from the past! How do people get into these old arguments and continually bring them back from the dead?
Look below: the "Similar threads" feature causes a lot of that.

The rest is caused by people who have enough sense to search the forum for answers before posting a question that's already been answered multiple times. They find an appropriate thread, and add their question or knowledge to it.

I, for one, would rather folks update "zombie threads" than have to deal with thirty new threads all covering the same topic. Let's keep it all in one place.
 

Walkers

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May 17, 2021
Messages
3,912
Location
Cave Creek Az
Look below: the "Similar threads" feature causes a lot of that.

The rest is caused by people who have enough sense to search the forum for answers before posting a question that's already been answered multiple times. They find an appropriate thread, and add their question or knowledge to it.

I, for one, would rather folks update "zombie threads" than have to deal with thirty new threads all covering the same topic. Let's keep it all in one place.
Ahh, that’s where it comes from. I suppose you are righ about updating threads, though it seems the added content is not generally very useful.
 

yeldogt

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Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
Look below: the "Similar threads" feature causes a lot of that.

The rest is caused by people who have enough sense to search the forum for answers before posting a question that's already been answered multiple times. They find an appropriate thread, and add their question or knowledge to it.

I, for one, would rather folks update "zombie threads" than have to deal with thirty new threads all covering the same topic. Let's keep it all in one place.
Things do change over time ...
 
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