This is a really interesting comparison. Among the winners, two are USA made (Klein & Channel lock), two are Chinese made (Irwin and Southwire), one is made in Germany, Knipex. The biggest loser is Snap on. It's almost a pattern now that SO is always the best according to folklore. But in an objective test, it rarely outperform.
Best dikes competition
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This is a really interesting comparison. Among the winners, two are USA made (Klein & Channel lock), two are Chinese made (Irwin and Southwire), one is made in Germany, Knipex. The biggest loser is Snap on. It's almost a pattern now that SO is always the best according to folklore. But in an objective test, it rarely outperform.
plinker
Well-known member
Not really sure how "objective" it is torture testing cutters by cutting drill bits and such, Cutting nails & screws is usually mini bolt cutter territory IMO (and an alternative method of removal is preferred). A tool failing by being tested outside it's design limits doesnt mean it's a bad tool per say. I also dont think you can really compare box, lap & compound joint pliers directly either.
Not sure how Snap-on is the biggest loser here? It did better then some others during the test.
Not sure how Snap-on is the biggest loser here? It did better then some others during the test.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
We already knew Knipex was the best.
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I like his videos but trying to cut a nail in half is a little bit much. Snap-on, Channellock and Knipex and old Craftsman USA are my choice for pliers.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Great Video, thanks for sharing. Project Farm usually does an outstanding job testing stuff.
However, as others have pointed out, this test was more like taking a knife to a gunfight
I don't encounter too many 16P nails working on vehicles unless, it's stuck in a tire. I don't think I've ever tried to cut a deck screw, drill bit, or power adapter with anything other than a cutoff wheel either but, I guess the test was the same across the board, repeatable and measureable. I would have liked to see the nail cut replaced with a 1/8 cotter pin cut, the deck screw replaced with cutting 8 gauge wire, and the drill bit replaced with cutting large push pin connectors or a 10-12 gauge **** connector. I'm looking for things I routinely cut.
This was excellent side cutter carnage from a wide range of brands though and if you can ever apply that much force to your cutters, you'll know where they stand
However, as others have pointed out, this test was more like taking a knife to a gunfight
I don't encounter too many 16P nails working on vehicles unless, it's stuck in a tire. I don't think I've ever tried to cut a deck screw, drill bit, or power adapter with anything other than a cutoff wheel either but, I guess the test was the same across the board, repeatable and measureable. I would have liked to see the nail cut replaced with a 1/8 cotter pin cut, the deck screw replaced with cutting 8 gauge wire, and the drill bit replaced with cutting large push pin connectors or a 10-12 gauge **** connector. I'm looking for things I routinely cut.
This was excellent side cutter carnage from a wide range of brands though and if you can ever apply that much force to your cutters, you'll know where they stand
Come on guys. Have a little bit of fairness. Isn't the ONLY justification for these 'truck' tools is that they can survive some abuse? As far as the evidence shows, Snap On is no better than tools from big box stores for the jobs they are designed for, and it shits its pants when it is time for abuse?
If anything, these tests are designed in Snap On's favor. SO got a good chance to shine and prove itself.
If anything, these tests are designed in Snap On's favor. SO got a good chance to shine and prove itself.
RoundedNut
Well-known member
Ya the big box brands held up very well, taking abuse as well as or better than Snap-On. And if their jaws look fine after cutting a harden deck screw then they'll last a long time cutting copper and aluminum.
Notably, I'd say Knipex met expectations coming out on top, the (made in China) big box brands exceed, and Snap-On disappointed.
Notably, I'd say Knipex met expectations coming out on top, the (made in China) big box brands exceed, and Snap-On disappointed.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Are nominations still open ? 
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You've obviously never repaired vehicles in a commercial setting. A tool truck sells service. Things like truck to your bay sales, and warranty. The ability to earn while using your new tools as you pay for them in weekly payments for the rest of your life
A wider selection of tool sizes and variations not found in your big box store, not to mention all of the specialty tools needed for today's vehicles. The brand on the side of the truck is less important than the service offered by the dealer driving it.I think the point that you're missing is that for the long haul, of sustained daily hard use, the tool truck tools are better made and will last longer. Now, no one is forcing you to buy truck brand tools. Truck brand tools fail and wear out too. Buy what you want and can afford but, don't try to label an entire truck brand a failure over a side cutter carnage test.
four.cycle
Well-known member
I wouldn't use any of my diagonal cutters for snipping off nails, deck screws, or other objects for which the pliers were not designed.
I'd use a small pair of bolt cutters or (lacking bolt cutters) an old pair of my Indestro lineman's pliers, which have worked quite well on nails for over 45 years.
They failed to check Proamerica and Wilde, both of which are US made, and both of which most likely would have performed quite well, even though their diagonal cutters aren't designed for such abuse either.
Coming up next:
I'll demonstrate which pot scrubber sponges work best for installing acoustic ceiling tiles! Stay tuned!
I'd use a small pair of bolt cutters or (lacking bolt cutters) an old pair of my Indestro lineman's pliers, which have worked quite well on nails for over 45 years.
They failed to check Proamerica and Wilde, both of which are US made, and both of which most likely would have performed quite well, even though their diagonal cutters aren't designed for such abuse either.
Coming up next:
I'll demonstrate which pot scrubber sponges work best for installing acoustic ceiling tiles! Stay tuned!
KnurledNut
Well-known member
@Fedwrench
Lets not forget that Knipex is sold on most every tool truck.
I would have loved to have seen PF include NWS in his test.
Lets not forget that Knipex is sold on most every tool truck.
I would have loved to have seen PF include NWS in his test.
plinker
Well-known member
The test isnt really fair or practical. One test sample isnt very conclusive either. A larger sample size (say 3-5) of the same pliers may yield different results. Destructive testing isnt going to make me run out and buy "X brand" of anything, especially if it's not very realistic in regards to the real world use of the tool. I think youtube is taken too seriously at times.
In addition to the service factor for tool trucks, how may replacements are built into the price of the tool? For the price of the Snap-on, it could actually be a better deal over a lifetime. Channellock & Klein have warranty's, though neither is likely going to replace dull cutters. Knipex is the same unless you buy it off Matco or another tool truck. No one wants to mail it in on their dime for warranty either these days, so truck brands do makes sense at times, just depends on what is or isnt available to you locally and if the tool is more "consumable" then normal for you (they all are to one degree or another).
FWIW, the 8" cutters I have were as follows, 8" Klein which got replaced by Channellock after a few years and then they got replaced with Matco branded Knipex after a few years. None are bad/junk, just a little duller then I want at work for daily use, so the Klein & CL are at home and in the truck box. I bought the Knipex simply as the Matco guy is far more reliable then the Snap-on guy. So in a sense, I've spent the 65$ for the Snap-on cutters on three different other brand wire cutters over the last fifteen or so years.
Rabid Badger
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Project Farm has a tendency to lean towards torture testing rather than evaluating tools for their intended use. More often than not it skews the results toward products that are inferior in a real-world setting.
I'm not saying he doesn't provide useful data, but don't make a purchase based on his videos alone.
I'm not saying he doesn't provide useful data, but don't make a purchase based on his videos alone.
JatoTheRipper
Well-known member
I like Project Farm. People complain about his testing methods, but at least he is as fair and unbiased as possible. He definitely leans more towards extreme use.
dar24601
Well-known member
First thing is even the strongest grip is going to top out at 150ft/lb. a good grip ranges from 115 - 125 so the nail is only object that a person with above avg grip would of been able to cut
Ton ton
Well-known member
Knipex is a tool truck brand in my book. I can buy pretty much the full line of Knipex off my local Snappy dealer.
Never seen knipex on any tool trucks around here. Never seen them at a job site either they don’t sell them at any of the big box stores or industrial houses here. It’s usually snap-on or Klein here depending on the profession.
But they’re not limited to SO trucks. Cromwell carries them, as well as all your industrial suppliers, he’ll even my local Lowe’s has a small knipex selection
Ton ton
Well-known member
I wish he would have included NWS too.
Never seen them on the Mac truck and we don’t have cornwell down here. The matco truck never comes by anymore. The supply house here has Klein or channel lock. I have not found a place that sells knipex locally. My kleins have 15 years of daily use cutting #6 copper so my next pair will more than likely be another set of Klein D2000
bwringer
Well-known member
What kind of weirdo does that?
I kid only slightly.... if you're an electrician and you always, always, always pay someone else to do mechanical or home work, then I suppose you could pass your "only used to cut copper" diagonal cutters on to your grandchildren.
If you're like most of us, then they're used to cut all sorts of materials (cotter pins, nails, steel wire, etc.) and for all sorts of off-label uses (yanking staples or reluctant cotter pins, for example), and they will eventually wear out.
Screwdrivers, especially Phillips screwdrivers, are similar. They're wear items, not heirlooms. The quicker you accept that and replace tools when they wear out, the happier and safer you'll be.
I thought it was pretty neat in the video how three or four brands, easily available off the shelf, seemed to hit a sweet spot of sharpness, durability, and price. The performance of the "Southwire" brand was surprising; they're generally really crappy Chinese tools, but that sample worked better than I would have expected. No surprise that Channellock did well and is a relative bargain.
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Bubba Fett
Well-known member
I just watched this video last night. I was surprised to see the Irwin and Southwire cutters do so well. I was not surprised to see the Knipex and Klein do well. I also was not surprised to see IIT fail so early on, since that brand is usually at or below HF quality.
This was a test-to-destruction video, and not really a test of the products overall. For example, things like ergonomics were not mentioned.
I'm also not sure if this was really an apples-to-apples comparison, as compound handles offer certain advantages, and it ignores that some brands have multiple versions of cutters, intended for special purposes. For example, the J2000 cutters would have probably done much better than the regular ones.
This was a test-to-destruction video, and not really a test of the products overall. For example, things like ergonomics were not mentioned.
I'm also not sure if this was really an apples-to-apples comparison, as compound handles offer certain advantages, and it ignores that some brands have multiple versions of cutters, intended for special purposes. For example, the J2000 cutters would have probably done much better than the regular ones.
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KnurledNut
Well-known member
The rep may choose not to stock them but they can get them.
I have cobras that came from Mac and SO both with their logos on them.
I think all the truck brands, except maybe SO currently, have them manufactured with their own logo and part numbers.
Lowes is carrying Knipex in store once again. YMMV.
HD can get them as well.
SO:
https://shop.snapon.com/product/supplemental/3-pc-High-Leverage-Diagonal-Cutter-Set/KNX002005US
Mac:
https://www.mactools.com/products/2998d36c-42e0-40e2-a732-a48300d9ab77
Matco:
https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/PBDC8/KNIPEX-8-BENT-DIAGONAL-CUTTER-PLIERS/
Cornwell:
http://corporate.cornwelltools.com/webcat/products/KXC750-%2d-8”-Hi-Leverage-Diag.Cutter.html#
Lowes:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/KNIPEX-High-Leverage-Diagonal-Cutting-Pliers/5000886685
HD:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/KNIPEX-...-Edge-and-Straight-Handle-74-01-200/100668962
bwringer
Well-known member
If you're in a state with Menard's, they stock a nice selection of Knipex stuff, and a few very nice Orbis pliers are found over in the electrical stuff.
And of course, several other brands as well.
And of course, several other brands as well.
I’ll have to check Lowe’s I know they use to carry them then went with south wire.
tonyciambrone
Well-known member
Never seen a Matco truck?
i don’t think anyone is trying to dissuade you from buying what you like.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Love Project Farm but this test was a little weird. The part of it I did like was the damage done to the cutting edges after biting down on the various objects he cut or attempted to cut. I personally have found the Channellock to have less than hard cutters when I cut piano wire with them. That's one of the reasons I like the Doyle. They can handle normal thickness piano wire with no problem. The best dikes I've got for this purpose are an old pair of Diamond Tool and Horseshoe diagonals. I feel that they made the best pliers available when they were still in business.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Yeah they have Knipex in the main tool section, and more in the electrical tool section. They also dumped Southwire in favor of Ideal. I've also seen Malco tools over in the HVAC area, but no Eagle Grips yet.
seber
Well-known member
I've been using the same pair of dikes for at least forty years. They are used almost daily and are as good as the day I bought them. Right beside them is a pair of eight inch bolt cutters. Those get used for things that dikes should never see. The bolt cutters are what I consider consumable. For yanking staples etc. I use a pair of flush cutters. They look a bit rough but who cares.
We're all waiting to learn what brand they are.
eejack
Well-known member
As an electrician it would never occur to me to use them to cut nails or drill bits. It is for light metal cuts and wire cutting. However the main purpose is cutting tie wraps, pulling staples and nails, trimming mc cable and the like.
I actually have gramp's dykes around here somewhere. My edc are channellock angled 8 inch, but I have others. If I am doing a lot of cutting I tend to reach for my klein bx cutters - just looked them up and they call them all purpose shears - 1104.
If I were to cut a drill bit, that is what my 9s ( linesman pliers ) are for, or a portable bandsaw or bolt cutters...
dnschmidt
Well-known member
If I'm cutting a drill bit or screw I'm using my angle grinder (one of about the 50 that I own) with either a Pferd or Walter cut off disc as I hate changing wheels. It would never occur to me to use diagonals for this purpose. This reminds me of the line from John Wick when the story of him killing two people with a pencil in a bar is discussed and the Russian mob leader says: "Who does that?"
neophyte
Well-known member
Grinders produce sparks, which aren’t really safe in a number of applications like carpentry and construction work(especially in older buildings) or around flammable gases or liquids.
Hence the reason “cold cut” toothed saws for steel, and shears/nibblers, and bolt cutters, and manual carbide grit hacksaw blades, etc. get used.
neophyte
Well-known member
For the people complaining that cutting nails isn't standard for “dykes”,
It pretty much is a standard use, or at least used to be even back when carbon steel alloys were mostly used for cutting pliers.
Nippers, for instance are used for cutting steel wire, but also for pulling nails, and Diagonal cutters are sometimes used similarly, and the way the diagonal cutters are ground sometimes seems to be directly to enable the cutters to be used for grabbing and levering out nails etc.
diagonal cutters are also routinely used for pulling cotter pins.
There are diagonal cutters made and designed specifically for cutting soft alloys like copper and other cutters designed for cutting plastic, but these are “specialty” tools rather than your typical “hardware store” type cutters.
One issue in the USA is that most manufacturers just list an ASTM spec for their cutters and pliers( or at least used to) and almost nobody, including professionals in various industries know what the specs of the ASTM standard are.
European manufacturers on the other hand tend to simply list cutting capacity for various materials, like copper, mild steel, and piano wire, which was a way more accessible way for yhe average person to just how well a cutting tool would perform at various possible tasks.
Various US manufacturers used to mark tools for high stress use with markings such as “Piano Wire” decades ago, but this is way less common now.
Klein at one point, maybe a couple decades ago at this point, came out with their 2000 series pliers,
Designed for
“Cuts ACSR, screws, nails and most hardened wire”
Since Klein was one of THE standards for US pliers, I presume plenty of users were using the pliers to cut whatever steel they needed to before this, and the 2000 series just used a better hardening process.
As for cutting drill bits, the drill bits were supposedly “HSS, and would therefore have been made to drill steel, including Cold rolled steel, piano drawn steel, alloyed steel, etc.
If a pair of diagonal cutters could cut the “HSS” drill bits, then the drill bits were the shittiest HSS possible, and the alloy likely had little to do with actual HSS.
HSS should have cracked before it cut.
High tensile deck screws are a bit of a stretch, but nowadays since screws are becoming as common as nails in construction, it’s a reasonable test to expect cutters to handle them, since you never know what morons, or those under time crunches will do with tools.
An observation I saw in the tests, is that the pliers with a courser grind on the jaws, seemed to require more force to make cuts.
As far as the CS Osborne cutters go,
Do they even make their own?
CS Osborne is apparently family owned going back several generations, and their products are a weird mix of specialty tools for Leatherwork, Upholstery, Masonry, etc.
Years ago, they used to import and sell Maun English made pliers under their own name.
It pretty much is a standard use, or at least used to be even back when carbon steel alloys were mostly used for cutting pliers.
Nippers, for instance are used for cutting steel wire, but also for pulling nails, and Diagonal cutters are sometimes used similarly, and the way the diagonal cutters are ground sometimes seems to be directly to enable the cutters to be used for grabbing and levering out nails etc.
diagonal cutters are also routinely used for pulling cotter pins.
There are diagonal cutters made and designed specifically for cutting soft alloys like copper and other cutters designed for cutting plastic, but these are “specialty” tools rather than your typical “hardware store” type cutters.
One issue in the USA is that most manufacturers just list an ASTM spec for their cutters and pliers( or at least used to) and almost nobody, including professionals in various industries know what the specs of the ASTM standard are.
European manufacturers on the other hand tend to simply list cutting capacity for various materials, like copper, mild steel, and piano wire, which was a way more accessible way for yhe average person to just how well a cutting tool would perform at various possible tasks.
Various US manufacturers used to mark tools for high stress use with markings such as “Piano Wire” decades ago, but this is way less common now.
Klein at one point, maybe a couple decades ago at this point, came out with their 2000 series pliers,
Designed for
“Cuts ACSR, screws, nails and most hardened wire”
Since Klein was one of THE standards for US pliers, I presume plenty of users were using the pliers to cut whatever steel they needed to before this, and the 2000 series just used a better hardening process.
As for cutting drill bits, the drill bits were supposedly “HSS, and would therefore have been made to drill steel, including Cold rolled steel, piano drawn steel, alloyed steel, etc.
If a pair of diagonal cutters could cut the “HSS” drill bits, then the drill bits were the shittiest HSS possible, and the alloy likely had little to do with actual HSS.
HSS should have cracked before it cut.
High tensile deck screws are a bit of a stretch, but nowadays since screws are becoming as common as nails in construction, it’s a reasonable test to expect cutters to handle them, since you never know what morons, or those under time crunches will do with tools.
An observation I saw in the tests, is that the pliers with a courser grind on the jaws, seemed to require more force to make cuts.
As far as the CS Osborne cutters go,
Do they even make their own?
CS Osborne is apparently family owned going back several generations, and their products are a weird mix of specialty tools for Leatherwork, Upholstery, Masonry, etc.
Years ago, they used to import and sell Maun English made pliers under their own name.
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