Best Paint Set-Up & Tools

[SMLWinds]

Guys-I am getting more and more into restoring old automobiles and tractors and would like to do my own painting. I know very little about painting and plan to learn as I go. However, I want to only buy equipment once and never outgrow it.

If I want a high quality, body shop caliber paint job, what type of tools and set up do I need? I am blessed enough to have the money to afford whatever I want to buy so money is not the issue--it is quality.

So, what do high caliber professional body shops use for their paint set ups? Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[NYBODYMAN]

Not sure what you mean by paint set-up? I'm assuming you mean what paint gun to use. HVLP-High Volume Low Pressure, is the norm these days. I used to use RP-Reduced Pressure guns a few years back. A compressor with good CFM's and a filter/regulator will help too. If you have never painted before, I'd suggest taking a class at a local trade school or BOCES. Its not something you can pick up overnight.

 

[sberry]

I use all old junk. But start with this. http://finishingacademy.com/training/aero/aero_mod3/aero_mod3_intro.html

 

[VoodooCLD]

At an absolute minimum you need a 60 gallon 5hp compressor. You could probably get by with a single stage if your not doing it all day every day. But a body shop would have a two stage compressor. Then you'll need a high quality air filter/ drying system to make sure you have clean dry air supplied to the gun. There are lots of post's about this, do a search. You'll most likely want a plam style DA sander, HVLP spray gun, a number of sanding blocks, mixing cups, paint strainers, gun cleaning kit, an electric or pneumatic buffer. And if you really wanna do body shop caliber paint work, you need a full downdraft paint booth.
There is definitely a learning curve. I painted the same motorcycle tank about 6 times before i finally got good results. Took another year of painting bicycle frames with auto paint before i got consistent, and i still screw up occasionally.

There's lots of good brands of compressors out there. For Spray guns i like Sharpe, if you wanna buy the best, buy SATA. Lots of good sanders and buffers depending how much you wanna spend.

 

[sberry]

You don't need the best of this or that, same for wrenches. You are a poster child for heading to a Sears or HF and buying a few things to do some work you want to do and learn to use a few basic tools before heading off in the quest for the best.
Master a little sandpaper. scotch brite masking tape and a spray can first.

 

[lilredex]

No need to go crazy, if you intend to be a P/T painter as I have been for a number of years, a couple of simple paint guns and a 2HP compressor are more than enough.

You can find similar HF guns and the compressor is a "put together" 2HP driving a Speedaire 2 cyl. compressor head.........more than enough for that air wasting larger gun. There are lots of those Speedaire units out there used.

 

[VoodooCLD]

You don't need the best of this or that, same for wrenches. You are a poster child for heading to a Sears or HF and buying a few things to do some work you want to do and learn to use a few basic tools before heading off in the quest for the best.
Master a little sandpaper. scotch brite masking tape and a spray can first.

He said he wants to paint cars and tractors with auto body shop quality. Not do a rattle can touch up job.

 

[sberry]

He asked about the best, he asks about this of wrenches in another thread. I am sure he is bright and intends to do well and great work but some of this will sort itself out thru some experience which is obvious as daylight even thru a puter screen.
Nothing is a killjoy to a hobby or even work to get 10x the cost in tools to find out it doesn't matter much or they never recover some of the investment, find out it isn't for them or while today may not seem like a big deal to simply toss money at something today which may change tomorrow.

 

[VoodooCLD]

He asked about the best, he asks about this of wrenches in another thread. I am sure he is bright and intends to do well and great work but some of this will sort itself out thru some experience which is obvious as daylight even thru a puter screen.

I hear ya, I figured i'd just lay out the answers to his question and let the sticker shock sort itself out

 

[sberry]

The poster is starting at 0 and can only envision the finished product at this point and a 300$ gun wont help him paint without a run or learn to clean a gun on a pc of ****, first time he gets behind and sits an hour of epox in a gun or ruins it may as well be a cheap one.
He comes back in a year and says I did 5 jobs and need to learn a better finish then the better or best question has some more meaning.

 

[sberry]

Also have been thru a little of this, went up the gun chain and come back to the one I started with or a knockoff on a paint pot.
The main reason I repeat some of the same theme is I still want to do it. Especially when I explore something new, there is always the fear what I get wont be good enuf but the reality is exactly the opposite in most cases. I could have drilled all the holes I ever did with a different brand than a hilit, I should have bought a smaller portable than SA200 Linc I did.
I only recently quit buying all the attachments and began to look for the white box just before they ship it off to various brands. I found in the end the most expensive items didn't pan out. I need a good one most times, not always a great one.
Some tools are classed a bit different, small welding machines are not so much of an issue with quality between brands but to get one with sufficient power. The 211 class has really filled a niche for this crowd with that. The 5 hp comp has also.

 

[sberry]

I know very little about painting and plan to learn as I go. However, I want to only buy equipment once and never outgrow it.

This statement says a lot. But, you grow in to new equipment as you learn, not in reverse. It doesn't mean you use something that doesn't work or doesn't allow the potential for results (lots of little bargain wire feeders are like this, they never do work right) but there is no point in rushing in to Sata guns when a CH from a flea will do a job better than most operators can.
Most of the pro body shop finish is from work well ahead of the paint.

 

[sberry]

Its easy to be impressed by a lot of work and a lot of money but along with my admiration of cheap tools is some cheap work.
I know some car painters, most of them got **** tools, sometimes I got to wonder but,,,, aint nothing like watching a broke *** body pro needs rent and beer or maybe beer bring in a 15 yr car I wouldnt fix cause some guy gonna pay 650 to sheib it go to work with a can of tiger hair and a couple gallons of bondo, he wants the money by Thursday and its Tuesday afternoon.

 

[sberry]

Some of the guys who own small shops, guys paint at car lots are really good and talented. One I know is really a refinish guy, when he owns his own shop he is also the painter but the gift is sanding bondo. It really shows up when fixing junk where its not worth the time investment.
I asked Mark Gasser the artist posted here about how long it took to do a sample he had and in fairness I already knew the answer and handed him a chance to elaborate but he said 10 mins and 10 years.
An amateur body guy like me,,, different than a painter but I mix a dab, sand some, it aint enuf etc and it never does look right. Mr body cakes it on a half inch thick 2x as wide ad whacks it with 8 inch thn a straight liner and in th4e end may dab a bit for finish which can cure while its ready for super thick shot of hi build primer which gets whacked off with a block then a prime and that could be value shaded etc. I seen a car done with 2 qts of color.

 

[sberry]

The equipment is part of it. There are a lot of pieces and if you pay premium for each it cost too much. I remember being thrilled to find a paper machine HF or something when I needed one.

 

[dodge610]

For a starter set Home Depot use to have a nice set in a case had a trim gun and regular gun. I bought one for quick get me thru the bad weather jobs. Lowes also had a set just about the same set up.

 

[sberry]

Then after the fact,, add as I go and as the need or opportunity comes up. If one looks close can see the original in line temp reg I had plugged on to this circuit for the first jobs. As I gathered fittings and use escalated continued to finish it out till I hit "good enough"
I have also back tracked some on occasion removing un needed hydrants or tailoring locations. Early on I was a super feature guy, as I progress a little I try to get closer to simple and the fundamentals.

 

[dodge610]

The equipment is part of it. There are a lot of pieces and if you pay premium for each it cost too much. I remember being thrilled to find a paper machine HF or something when I needed one.

HF has a decent paper machine bought one a few years back not expecting much. Darn if It is still working as good as the day i bought it.

 

[SMLWinds]

Guys-thanks for the responses and your thoughts. It is ok that some people differ in their approach...I am after opinions and recommendations here and then will make my decisions.

In an effort to help you guys help me, I am going to explain a little more about me, my goals, and desires. I apologize if anything comes off the wrong way or rubs anyone wrong...I am quite certain I will generate at least one sarcastic response, which I expect.

I know little about painting a car...probably next to nothing. I am very dedicated to learning things and typically quickly become better than professionals at many things because I study, research, practice, and pay very close attention with meticulous detail. So, I plan to become reasonable good at this relatively quickly (I know...someone thinks I have no idea how hard it is but I was told this about painting my homes, laying tile, doing woodworking, etc but in a short period of time I have to do all those things myself because I can't find anyone to be as detailed and meticulous as I am).

With that said, I do not want something that will limit me. I don't need to waste money on a name brand for nothing, but I do not want to be limited by the tools I have in any way.

I do sincerely appreciate you guys looking out for my wallet as well. I never want to waste money on a name brand if a cheaper tool is 100% as good. With that said, I have never regretted buying top of the line but have regretted trying to save a few bucks. With as much humbleness as I can have, I must say that the costs here are extremely small and inconsequential to me. I am very blessed to make a large salary and don't want to waste it because a fool and his money soon part, but I do have the means and will never miss the money. (Typically at this point someone says I should just pay someone to do it...yes, I could afford to do that but the point here is to have fun and do it myself. Furthermore, I plan to be able to spend more time and effort and ultimately do a better job than most professionals)

With that said, hold no punches and give me the professional grade recommendations. I know it sounds stupid that a rookie is buying things many professionals don't have but I have done it time and time again and never regretted my decisions. I am very appreciative of everyone's thoughts and value your input--this is the main way I am able to learn! If the prices get too crazy ( and I am talking 30K, not $300 for a spray gun) I may reconsider but for now, let's start with recommendations for the best and I will research, study, and use that as my starting point.

Thanks for taking the time to assist me!

 

[dodge610]

Well since you put i that way get on the Eastwood website and they will have a full array of products for yo to pick and choose from. That should get you up and painting in no time There products are middle of the road with some higher end products. I have used there products ad was very pleased with them.

 

[1badbird]

For body work: dura blocks, dyanabrade 5" DA, Hutchins hustler board file, evercoat rage bodyfiller and evercoat glaze, 3m or Norton sandpaper. Paint: damn good air drying system, sata guns for primer and basecoat, either sata or iwata gun for clear, Dupont or ppg paint, 3m tape. This is just a few of the hundreds of items that you will need to do a paint job. It would be better if you narrowed down your question to a particular item or tool to maybe get more responses to your questions.

 

[wornoutoldman]

Contact these folks: http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/ they will be happy/helpful/willing to take your money and are one stop shopping too.

 

[bdk1976]

Go to http://www.autobody101.com/forums/ and spend some time reading through old posts.

 

[sberry]

but I do not want to be limited by the tools I have in any way.

This is kind of what some of us get at. Cost isn't the sole factor it may have been and some of the prices on suitable items have went down to disposable cost. Getting the RIGHT item is more important than getting stuck with the best.
Using some economy allows for some error that is inevitable, its so cheap its not money lost but more exploratory till you find what works or works for you. Find out if it works or not, find out you use it once before investing.
Along the way we have found some things that work well enough they are not worth the effort to upgrade.
Same for the wrenches in the other thread, if you are starting from 0 get a Sears set and go from there, if you find yourself needing better them toss in scrap. Buy a Sears 309 pc set and get on with it, pontificate later.

 

[SantaAna12]

Go to http://www.autobody101.com/forums/ and spend some time reading through old posts.

Thanks for that link!

 

[May Pop]

Lilredex
That is a real neat way to mount the compressor. The first time I saw one my Dad had his mounted in a ratty old garage he had in the city. A small one similar to yours. Yours really looks good with the hard pipe, regulators and junk hanging from it to make the best use of the space.

Ron

 

[countryroad82]

As said hit autobodytoolmart.com for some things. In my shop (boy I wish I had your 'problem' about the money thing lol) I have been using Devilbiss GTI guns for my paint and clear. Not top of the line, not bottom of the barrel. I've been running those for 10 years at least and they have painted hundreds of vehicles.

As for DAs I run Ingersol and Hutchins. Love 'em. I like palm sanders personally but that's just me. Every now and again I break out the mud hog, 8" DA but I don't need to in most cases.

Long board sanders are a mix of Hutchins, CP, and Dynabrade. The Hutchins is mainly for finish work. The other 2 I see no real difference.

I can't live without my Durablocks period. Buy every shape and size they make. Then as you come across foam you will wind up making blocks of your own. I also use MotorGard flexible blocks, they have a soft side on one and a 'hard' side on the other. I mainly use those for wet sanding but for certain areas I will block with them.

Buy the best high torque die grinder you can find. It is your best friend. Also angle die grinders, those you can cheap out on.

I use a stud gun a lot. Mine is a Stinger and can't say how much that thing has fixed. Don't always use a slide hammer on dings, pull the stud with Vise Grips and peck around it with a pick hammer, it works wonders. But you'll figure it out.

Hammers. Martin hammers are my fave. I at first bought fiberglass handled hammers but I have been slowly putting together some wood handled hammers, some I like better with fiberglass handles, some I prefer wood. I'm weird.

Compressor, get the biggest, baddest, sumbit$h you can get. The bigger the better. You can never have too much air, especially if you start sandblasting. I have an 80 gallon 2 stage Eaton. If that doesn't cut it I flip the switch for my backup compressor to help along. The Eaton keeps up pretty good though, I only kick in the second when I have help at the shop and I have a lot of air power running.

I mentioned sandblasting, since your wanting to restore cars invest in a cabinet. I have a TP Tools 970 it's great. I can fit a car door in it if need be. I hate a pressure blaster, but that's just me.

A couple other things to consider are a long pogo stick, monkey on a stick, porta power, and door adjustment tool.

I'm sure there are some other things I'm forgetting right now but that's the staples for me. I know everyone has been trying to talk you out of buying the best or good but I figure I'll tell you what works for me.

 

[creativecars]

OP, Where are you located?

I am a fan of DeVilbiss spray equipment. I would only look at hvlp gravity feed guns. The first thing is to get the hang of spraying, at this point the quality of gun does not really matter. I have put on a better finish with a $10.00 HF gravity feed gun than a person learning with a $300.00 gun. I would get no less than a 5hp, 2 stage compressor, 60+ gallon tank and about 15+ cfm at 125psi, anything less and you will want to replace it in 6 months.

 

[1930]

I have to disagree with most of the posts here, if you have the money buy the best tools you can the first time, there is a huge difference in the end results.

People that tell you there is no difference are people that cant tell the difference, maybe details are unimportant to them.

I will never believe that cheap tools can do the same job as good tools, why make the job any more difficult for yourself whilst learning.

I have approx. 30 years experience in the autobody industry.

To bad you lived ????? I would invite you to my shop for some hands on learning with excellent equipment and some not so excellent. ( but no junk )

Everything Chevelle mentioned above though are good pics and advice in my opinion. Cant beat a durablock.

This country and majority of its inhabitants have gone to the disposable end of the spectrum, attention for quality,detail and pride of workmanship are worthless, if you do not believe it try and open your own autobody shop.

Do not want to comment further with specifics cause I do not want to get into getting into online debates or pissin matches.


Good luck and enjoy yourself.

 

[lilredex]

Lilredex
That is a real neat way to mount the compressor. The first time I saw one my Dad had his mounted in a ratty old garage he had in the city. A small one similar to yours. Yours really looks good with the hard pipe, regulators and junk hanging from it to make the best use of the space.

Ron

Thanks....I'm always looking for ways to increase the floor space use. A shot of my previous workshop, where space was really limited is below.

 

[lilredex]

Here's proof you do not need to go overboard on your equipment. The projects below were all sprayed out doors using the equipment shown in my earlier post..........and they turned out just fine.



Edit...Anyone wondering about those imperfections obvious in the last picture, that is a scan of a photograph and the imperfections were on the photo......it would take me ten years to round up the original negative.

 

[don long]

I am an old retired bodyman /bodyshop owner that now plays in my home bodyshop I restore lots of old stuff and paint a car now and then I enjoy my tools very much and don't regrete spending my money on the best.
I also don't like the dust bodywork makes so I suggest you look into vacuum tools and a good dust vac. I have a Wap vac. and hutchins air tools. I use merka hand sanding blocks with the mesh sandpaper.
I have 3 sata paint guns and use one for priming 1 for color and 1 for clear and never mix them up I have a semi down draft booth that works well with the new water base paints and because I don't do production painting I chose not to have heat in my booth
I offer you a picture of my bondo cart as an example of my **** approch to a clean work inviorment

 

[countryroad82]

Don one of these days I'll either force or kill myself to get as clean and organized as you! Which while I have down time I plan to do a decent makeover in the shop soon so maybe I can get my shop back in a good order!

 

[1930]

I am an old retired bodyman /bodyshop owner that now plays in my home bodyshop I restore lots of old stuff and paint a car now and then I enjoy my tools very much and don't regrete spending my money on the best.
I also don't like the dust bodywork makes so I suggest you look into vacuum tools and a good dust vac. I have a Wap vac. and hutchins air tools. I use merka hand sanding blocks with the mesh sandpaper.
I have 3 sata paint guns and use one for priming 1 for color and 1 for clear and never mix them up I have a semi down draft booth that works well with the new water base paints and because I don't do production painting I chose not to have heat in my booth
I offer you a picture of my bondo cart as an example of my **** approch to a clean work inviorment

Exactly, you can only produce as fine a work as the tools you use and the environment you work in. Patience and determination are the only things that cant be purchased.

 

[sberry]

As much or more important than the quality of the tools is the selection and the selection of materials. I got to agree about the dust, if a guy and pull it up on the go all the better.
I am not so super fussy about the tools, I have IR straight vs a Hutchins and have even used a flea unit but the facility is as important, maybe more.
You can paint in the yard too, many do a fine job with that and the light is great.

 

[MBfreak]

I have restored a number of older classics, but left the final sanding and all painting to pros.
They had modern paint booths with special air recirculation with electrostatic filters, overpressure and humidity control.
One guy even steamcleaned his booth between jobs.

They did wonderful jobs well worth paying for.

So, since OPs ambition level is to match or surpass the pros, I guess a paintbooth needs to be on the list.

Ola

 

[dodge610]

I am an old retired bodyman /bodyshop owner that now plays in my home bodyshop I restore lots of old stuff and paint a car now and then I enjoy my tools very much and don't regrete spending my money on the best.
I also don't like the dust bodywork makes so I suggest you look into vacuum tools and a good dust vac. I have a Wap vac. and hutchins air tools. I use merka hand sanding blocks with the mesh sandpaper.
I have 3 sata paint guns and use one for priming 1 for color and 1 for clear and never mix them up I have a semi down draft booth that works well with the new water base paints and because I don't do production painting I chose not to have heat in my booth
I offer you a picture of my bondo cart as an example of my **** approch to a clean work inviorment

Hutchins air tools you are right don that is top of the line just like your garage and from what i have seen on this site just like you also.