Best panel? Generator ready?

[yeldogt]

I'm about to start a major project ... I have normally always used Square D (not Homeline) panels and disconnects. But, I have not done much electrical work recently.

Also, Looks like Square D makes a panel for Kohler generators that is using QO breakers ... anybody use one.

I think I may get a generator ... but since I only have propane I don't think I'm going to want to run the whole house .. this panel with the ability to shed loads looks like a good idea vs having to install a second panel.

My big concern is in the winter when I'm not around ... we rarely lose power in the summer.

 

[Brad Beam]

I have never had loose power what is it?

 

[yeldogt]

I hate the new iPhone upgrade ...combine the small screen, new contacts in both eyes and the spell change ... I'm having issues.

 

[Mustang51js]

Automatic transfer switch or manual and what size gen

 

[The Cobbler]

........

My big concern is in the winter when I'm not around ... we rarely lose power in the summer.

Here's a whole set up that I'm pondering http://www.ebay.com/itm/Generac-583...835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3cfd29f3

 

[yeldogt]

Square D makes a 200amp main panel that is generator ready -- it has the transfer switch built into the panel. You can install the panel and add the generator at a later date.

I'm wondering if anyone has used this setup. I am rebuilding the house and all the wiring is being replaced ... new panel. Panel has load control.


If I had natural gas available .... I would get a generator to run everything including the two A/C units and do a normal transfer switch before the main in panel ... but with Propane ... I don't want to have such a big generator unit.

I would rather size it for the load in the winter.

 

[Mustang51js]

Just get an interlock kit for the panel you have now,and then turn off breakers you don't want on. Total cost for interlock kit,outlet box,wire,cord should run you about $500 or less
Generator 5500-7000 watt with 30 amp twist lock. Then your good to go.

 

[Mustang51js]

And never heard of that panel unless it's just a panel with an interlock kit on it with a breaker,which is basically a cover. It can't be an automatic transfer for the future because each company has their own control wires from transfer to gen.

 

[ishiboo]

Here's a thought... worked GREAT for me.

Install a disconnect switch under your meter and feed your main panel from it. When it comes time to add a transfer switch, replace your main panel, service the main breaker, etc... simply hit the disconnect switch and have at it in the luxury of safety!

I did this when my service entrance cable failed and needed to be replaced. Have since replaced my main panel, and done several things at the top of the main panel (bringing in a 2-2-2-4 SER for a subpanel for example) that I felt more comfortable having the whole thing de-energized.

There are 3 basic options for a transfer switch. None of which are really dependent on the panel you select. (QO and Homeline both have interlock kits, I am assuming the rest of the major brands do as well, but go with Square D either way )

1. Whole house. Use a quality transfer switch independent of the panel. Add load shedding relays as necessary.

2. Some circuits. Uses one of those double-throw panels and moves only specified circuits off the main panel/ don't like these and don't see the point - it's a manual process, so why not use an interlock and be able to switch anything in the house on?

3. Interlock. This is the most economical, and what I have now. Like the "some circuits" add-on panel it is a manual process, but I can run everything in the house and just shut off the A/C for example.

 

[yeldogt]

The panels are called Intelligent transfer switch panels - they are for Kohler generators.

I am rebuilding the whole house ... all new electric .. new service and panels. I need the system to be completely automatic ... need it to work when I am not at the house.

The easiest setup: Get a big enough generator to do the whole house and just pay the propane price for the weakly tests and the times I need the generator. The cost to run large generators on Propane can be staggering .. especially at $4 gallon propane. My neighbor had to cycle his large generator this year because he was not guaranteed propane delivery --- 1000 gallon tank for heat/ cooking/ dryer/ generator.

My origin plan: Main panel and then have an automatic transfer switch and sub-panel for the generator loads. This is the normal retrofit for those wanting to add a generator in my area.

Power interruptions in my area are not uncommon .. most are short and nothing I would want to get a generator to overcome. The last few years have been different ... we lost power this winter for days on more than one occasion. The worst summer outages are hours long.

This Kohler panel looks like a good idea as it would allow for changes --

 

[Mustang51js]

Ok, you could do that, I think I hooked up one of those like that. Most of the ones I hook up are generac. What you need to do also is figure out where gen is going so you can run power and control wires over. I don't really care for the square d QO because to me it's just an expensive breaker,other breakers work just fine but don't have a orange tab. Generac makes a kit with the wires allready ran in flex about 20 feet long and all you have to do is plug it in. I'm just saying I wouldn't limit yourself to Koehler because of the breakers

 

[yeldogt]

Mustang: The possible limitation is my thought also .. That is why I was asking.

With all the "homeowner" level generators being installed throughout the country ... one would think some advancements would have occurred.

Most of the generators sold do not have the capacity to run everything .. even those sold as "whole house" need some form of load shedding. This Kohler panel looks like a good idea.

Maybe the solution is to have a standard transfer switch before the main panel and then use relays on the AC units low volt side to keep them off. I don't know what code says about the installation ... but something must be available.

The problem with having the need for two panels: Mine are going to be plastered in .. so I can't just switch stuff over in the future like you could in a basement situation.

 

[nu2me]

Dedicated generator sub-panel is the way to go, particularly if the system will be transferring loads in your absence. Properly done, you won't need to be concerned about overloading and balancing.

Remember, you only have to overload one leg to smoke a gennie.

 

[mm08822]

Generac Guardian whole-house back-up series is available with a Nexus transfer switch – 100 and 200 Amp sizes. It has the ability to automatically shed 4 loads to keep the generator from overloading. Two of these are points are able to interrupt the low voltage control side of ac equipment if demand is too high for the gen. All 4 points can be wired to contactors to directly interrupt the ac power to loads.
The transfer switch would give you maximum flexibility to select which loads are important to you to run while you are there using the house by you turning off breakers in main panel. When you aren’t there, shut off the breakers to chosen circuits and those loads won’t run for certain.

If the transfer switch/gen is some time down the road, I would do the following:
Get the cut sheets for the transfer switch now and allow enough room (be generous) between meter and panel to install it later. This means planning conduit route now. (Whether you want a disconnect right after the meter is your call).
It is better to install transfer switch inside if possible out of the weather - your call. These are typically surface mounted.
Install an off-the shelf main panel as planned. Just separate the grounds and neutrals now so you don’t have to split them out later.

When ready to install transfer switch/gen:
Pull meter (or open disconnect switch)
Remove conduit/cable to panel
Install transfer switch
Connect transfer sw to meter (or disconnect switch)
Connect transfer sw to main breaker of panel
Connect gen to transfer sw

Generators need to cycle once a week for 12 minutes to keep components lubricated, displace moisture and confirm able to run in near future. Biggest problem with whole house generators is when a house is in seasonal use; it needs to be in standby mode through the off-season so it will perform its weekly cycle/test. The problem is if power goes off when you are not there, you don’t want it running in virtually an idle state for hours as it just wastes your fuel.

As an option - you could install a sub panel next to the main panel. Later add the transfer switch between the feed from main panel into sub panel. Obviously here, you need to plan which are your critical loads now that go into the sub panel. This could make for a smaller gen/transfer switch required.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I think you need to work your way backwards.

Determine which generator you might/most likely will buy (based on deal support, parts, yadda, yadda)

Then spec your ATS based on that.

 

[Highbeam]

I replaced my main panel with a Siemen's generator panel. It's a regular large load center with a built in interlock that is part of the cover. It is UL listed and approved with the interlock already installed. You run the generator inlet circuit as you would any other circuit to a male inlet box near your genset.

Cost above a regular siemens load center was very small.

 

[Forest Road]

I have a Cutler Hammer interlock panel at home. Square D offers a similar panel. I also have a vacation home where I installed an aftermarket interlock kit. http://www.interlockkit.com/

In both homes I backfeed the entire panel. This gives us the ability to use whatever we want on generator power.

In the vacation home we have a well and electric water. When going into shower I turn off the water heater. Other than that its been great!

Dollar for dollar it's the way to go.

If you're thinking of possibly installing an automatic generator at a later date look into a Siemens. They can be operated manually. And when you're ready it'll accept automatic controls.

https://www.hqs.sbt.siemens.com/gip/general/dlc/data/assets/us/SIILV/RPFL-NEMA1-0609_low res.pdf