Thats the problem, right there. Even worse actually, if the nut or bolt is stuck to begin with the threads are basically sealed - so nothing gets in. No matter how fancy name is on the can.
best penetrating spray
- Thread starter Trans1998am
- Start date
Thats the problem, right there. Even worse actually, if the nut or bolt is stuck to begin with the threads are basically sealed - so nothing gets in. No matter how fancy name is on the can.
Our situation is probably on par if not even worse than the rust belt has to offer. Looonng winter with endless freeze thaw cycles. Lots of salt, both from the ocean and on roads.
Magic in a spray can.... I wish it was true.
JRC3
Well-known member
True, but sometimes that's not an option when it threads into the body, frame, or a suspension part for example. Indeed sometimes it is better to break the nut or bolt and just start over.
Ilikeike
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I've used a bunch of different stuff,like posted above. For the real stuburn bolts,I always end up getting a hammer and a torch. Hot and cold a couple of times.
Heat it, smack it,turn it.
Heat it, smack it,turn it.
tmike14400
Well-known member
Acetone isn't too harmful - your wife and/or girlfriend probably uses it regularly. It's a common nail polish remover.
scarney1988
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 13, 2013
- Messages
- 508
Or grab the torch, and pray. Maybe an inductive heater if you have the $ (its on my 'to purchase' list).
I have had pretty good success with PBB.
I find the best results are achieved when there is small amount of movement of the fastener. I spray the fastener heavily and just work it back and forth. This action seems to help draw the penetrant onto the threads. Other than that a long enough soak is your best bet.
I go right for the torch if it has to be loose quickly.
I would like to try crc freeze off.
steed andersen
Well-known member
The viscosity of water is far higher than that of most penetrating oil. In other words, water cant get in to corrode many things that oil can get into.
thebeekeeper1
Well-known member
It smells great but it's best not to snort it.
I've switched completely to Kroil. It's worked well for me wrenching on old junk farm equipment.
Squirt cans or bottles are much cheaper especially with your own mix that works better than store bought (at least with heat).
Here in the rust belt it is rare to find a bolt that is not rusted sttuck. This leaves two options shear the bolt head off and drill out the remnants. Or use penetrating oil (and heat for in my case) save the bolt and clean oil and reuse or replace. The second method also saves loads of time and stress. There really is no tool replacement, from impacts to breaker bars that can do the same job.
Oxygen/acetylene. Best rust penetrant available and the only one I've ever had really work for a bolt that wouldn't move.
For bolts that just turn hard the Mopar stuff we have seems to work pretty well. Does anyone know who makes it for Chrysler?
For bolts that just turn hard the Mopar stuff we have seems to work pretty well. Does anyone know who makes it for Chrysler?
Save your money on the CRC freeze, it doesn't create enough of a temperature differential to really work.Its been a while but there have been a few tests that prove this also. Pbb does a better job if you don't want to switch to homemade or kroil.
True, but can't be to careful. I've learned the hard way. Once with a parts washer which splashed on my pants around the waist and then ate through my skin. That wasn't fun. I also had pb blaster and brake clean spray back into my eye when I first started working on cars, that sucked too. Wear eye protection and gloves and don't be dumb like I was and still am sometimes.
In general I've settled on Kroil or Silkroil. At times that don't work. If I need to remove a nut that won't budge, a good wack with a sharp cold chisel or a nut buster tool will sometimes distort the nut enough and break the rust bond enough it will unscrew.
X1000 torch will bust about anything off. When I worked in a shop nobody even really used penetrating oil on stuck bolts. Problem is Joe schmo ain't gunna have a torch. And tanks of gas scare people. I wish I had a torch. But I need a bigger garage. Was thinking about getting a porta-torch soon.
Anarius
Well-known member
Re: best penaetrating spray
I agree that Kroil is king in my experience, but do you often have a need to lubricate Styrofoam cups?
We brought in a case of the freeze-off stuff, and its worthless as a P-oil. Does ok for lubing when cutting and drilling though, which is what we use the remaining cans for.
If I tragically run out of Kroil, I have an emergency reserve of Sea-Foam Deep Creep. If I'm outta that, I've got PB. If I'm outta that, somebody is gonna have a broken bolt.
I live/work in the rust belt, and if I've got some older rusty cars on the board for the next day, the last thing I do before heading home is put them in the air and kroil the piss outta every suspect fastener. Since I've been using kroil, the only bolts I break are the ones that there was never any hope for.
Kroil, I did a test with WD40 , PB blaster and Kroil on a styrofoam cup left over night over a piece of paper. WD40 didn't penetrate at all ( the paper was spotless ) PB blaster managed to creep a little it actually left a ring on the paper Kroil completely destroyed the cup and the paper was saturated with the stuff.
I agree that Kroil is king in my experience, but do you often have a need to lubricate Styrofoam cups?
We brought in a case of the freeze-off stuff, and its worthless as a P-oil. Does ok for lubing when cutting and drilling though, which is what we use the remaining cans for.
If I tragically run out of Kroil, I have an emergency reserve of Sea-Foam Deep Creep. If I'm outta that, I've got PB. If I'm outta that, somebody is gonna have a broken bolt.
I live/work in the rust belt, and if I've got some older rusty cars on the board for the next day, the last thing I do before heading home is put them in the air and kroil the piss outta every suspect fastener. Since I've been using kroil, the only bolts I break are the ones that there was never any hope for.
ncautoshop
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2011
- Messages
- 252
We've been using some stuff from Kimble Midwest that's pretty impressive!
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JRC3
Well-known member
It smells great but it's best not to snort it.
Anybody remember or know of the move The Wraith? It came out in 1986 the year I turned 16 and started driving. The movie is cheesy but this thread and talk of smell makes me think of the character, *****, especially 4:15 when he snorts some knock off WD40.
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAzNzY5NjQ4Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTAzMTkzMQ@@._V1_.jpg
thatonedude
Well-known member
I use Howes. Buy it off the mac truck. Use it at work and home. Ive seen it unfreeze motors that have been stuck for over 30 years. 8 to 50 dollars depending on size
Interesting.
Here are some numbers to consider, water has actually very low viscosity.
viscosity @25c°
SAE40 motor oil has cp=319
SAE10 motor oil = 65
Water =0.894
acetone = 0.306
Note the viscosity of acetone in comparison to water the difference is not great. Even if the number is 1/3 that of water it means acetone will just creep in faster. Not that it can. I included acetone since it has been mentioned in this tread. I don't have any numbers for "penetrating" oils.
I think the size of the H2O molecule in comparison to hydrocarbon chains found in oil is just as relevant factor.
The major compenents of most of these "penetrating" oils are white naptha (smells like kerosene) and/or benzene (that's the stuff that smells sweet) which on that scale have a viscosity of about .4xx at 20C.
I imagine that their sensitivity to heat and etc also play a role but organic chemistry isn't my strong suit.
Yep, this^^^. If you can get just a small amount of movement, then working back and forth with a good penetrating oil works beautifully. A torch or bottle of Mapp gas is my first choice for seized fasteners but there have been quite a few times when it has not been possible due to sensitive and/or flammable components/materials right next to the bolts/nuts.
merlinlee75
New member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2014
- Messages
- 2
Zep 45nc best stuff I've ever used. Live up in salt belt, northern Alberta and put it to good use daily.
thor
Active member
Kearny Rust Cutter.
I don't know much about how penetrating oils function, but what I'm thinking is that the fluid simply "penetrates" as much as it is capable into the gaps between the threads. The rust more or less blocks the fluid at some depth into the gaps and that is where the lubrication effect ends. For example, on a 1" rusted bolt the oil may only reach the top 1/4" and leave the lower 3/4" untouched. Am I on the right track so far?
If this is what is happening, the best penetrating fluid would seem to be one that dissolves some of the rust so that it could travel farther into the gaps, thus allowing the lubrication to be more effective. Is anyone aware of any type of oil, fluid, etc. that would dissolve rust so as to open up that space between the threads but still allow the oil to take effect?
I think some type of acid would dissolve the rust -- but what could it be combined with to create an effective penetrating oil?
If this is what is happening, the best penetrating fluid would seem to be one that dissolves some of the rust so that it could travel farther into the gaps, thus allowing the lubrication to be more effective. Is anyone aware of any type of oil, fluid, etc. that would dissolve rust so as to open up that space between the threads but still allow the oil to take effect?
I think some type of acid would dissolve the rust -- but what could it be combined with to create an effective penetrating oil?
nicksnothereman
Well-known member
PB usually. I use a heat gun if I have a problem anyway. Extra step though.
Acetone isn't something you want to play with to much, but in small doses it is not bad. We used to use it to clean the jig table and as a hand cleaner in the shop. Works great, but not good for you. I now have a sensitivity to it and my hands dry up and crack really badly if I'm around it. I recommend treating any chemical with a some respect and wearing gloves.
You do know the sun and oxygen are both bad for you right. Be sure to avoid both.
For other things too. I used a torch not only to heat up stuck fasteners. To braze and metal and practice oxy actly welding. The only other thing I've seen a mini ductor do is cook hotdogs.
FYI benzene, due to being highly reactive, reacts to often result with free radicals in a body. Making benzene carcinogenic. The greater of the evils when compared to acetone, although acetone is not as reactive, many things are soluble with acetone.
Farmall450
Well-known member
Kroil, like the others said, kinda expensive though, so I honestly use PB B'laster more with good results. I can get a gallon for less than a tall can of Kroil.
dlcwent
Member Emeritus
Probably I missed it but Deep Creep (put out by Sea Foam) is by far the best I've used. Sometimes it takes two or three applications, but it does work well.
JKennedy
Well-known member
Kroil. Using this is like having God himself come down and bust nuts loose for you.
Also it's a decent wasp repellent...
Also it's a decent wasp repellent...
lakota
Well-known member
CRC Freeze does work on small stuff. Rear brake pads held in by two pins about the size of #6 nail. Rusted solid to caliper after 5 years of New York State rust. Overnight soak with PB Blaster did nothing. Remember the can of CRC Freeze Off I got for free. Used about a 1/4 can on each side of vehicle and the pins broke free.
A friends mechanic used a CO2 fire Extinguisher to freeze up a seized suspension part that needed replacement. Heavy duty Freeze OFF.
lakota
Well-known member
Yes, in Texas but as others have mentioned it's not "magic in a can" in the rust belt on vehicles.
It failed me a number of times , even after soaking for a day.
Spudland_Dave
Well-known member
Oh I disagree...NY is not a rust area...not compared to Maine and I stand by my statement that Kroil is just as JKennedy said...the Good Lord himself is there working with me...
The Mill where my dad worked stocked Kroil in the tool crib...he often tells stories of how Paper Machine Dryer heads being a BEAR to pull apart...it would give his 3/4" IR a workout. With Kroil...they would spray down the bolts...go have a coffee and then blow it apart with a 2135Ti no prob.
At the end of the day, lets be honest here...using SOMETHING is probably better then nothing..they all seem to work to some degree. Access is the biggest thing, and while it may seem counter intuitive, I think the Kroil distribution method allows for better access to it for ALL of us. If you live in New Mexico or Maine, you can order some up. Some of the brands I've seen listed here just are hard to get or stupid shipping to even try em...
All of the Kroil/Kano Labs products are excellent.
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FMC1959
Well-known member
Based on other similar threads I have read in the past, I bought a couple of cans of Kroil, but have yet to use it.
In the past I have used just about all the other brands, WD-40, Liquid Wrench, PB, 3 in one, and some others that do not come to mind now. They all worked OK but nothing was that much better that the rest, nor any or them worked in really bad rust situations.
I'll see how Kroil makes out in comparison over the next few months.
**** While reading through this last night, I had to run down to the garage, grab some PB to spray and smell it. Smells pretty "ordinary" to me
In the past I have used just about all the other brands, WD-40, Liquid Wrench, PB, 3 in one, and some others that do not come to mind now. They all worked OK but nothing was that much better that the rest, nor any or them worked in really bad rust situations.
I'll see how Kroil makes out in comparison over the next few months.
**** While reading through this last night, I had to run down to the garage, grab some PB to spray and smell it. Smells pretty "ordinary" to me
Dust Devil
Well-known member
If I am gonna tear down something nasty I douche it with Kroil first. It always delivers.
The guy in Iceland needs to try some. To the rest of the haters....there's one in every crowd. When a product has such a strong reputation there always has to be a few that say it does not work or their home made ******** is better.....LOL Kroil is an awesome product, anyone that actually uses it knows. I have been using it for 30 years..at least with satisfaction every time.
Thank you Kano labs.
The guy in Iceland needs to try some. To the rest of the haters....there's one in every crowd. When a product has such a strong reputation there always has to be a few that say it does not work or their home made ******** is better.....LOL Kroil is an awesome product, anyone that actually uses it knows. I have been using it for 30 years..at least with satisfaction every time.
Thank you Kano labs.