Best precision 1/4" drive bits?

[cgv69]

I need some good 1/4" drive, standard 1" (25mm) long drive hex bits. I don't need/want impact rated. When I say good I mean not made in China and most critical is I need the sizes to be dead on so there is no slop/play in order to prevent damage to the fastener head. This is for precision work.

I need standard Philips, torx, SAE and Metric Hex and my OCD requires they be from the came company, same finish etc.

I was thinking Wiha but they appear to have gone Chinese so now I'm thinking Wera? They aren't German anymore either (Made in Czech Republic now) but should be OK unless you guys tell me different?

What other brands should I be considering and also, please list a source for whatever you recommend? I'm looking at KC Tool for the German stuff and they seem to have everything I need in the Wera line. Thanks

 

[Paul_The_Builder]

I've had really good results with both Wiha and Wera bits. Most of my bits are Wiha - they have a larger variety and are really not that pricey if you order them in bulk from KCToolco or directly from Wiha. They are both CNC milled - you can see the milling marks on them.

 

[Outahere]

.....standard 1" drive hex bits.....

Never heard of 1" drive hex bits. Are they used for building bridges?

 

[Steve_P]

Never heard of 1" drive hex bits. Are they used for building bridges?

Yeah, that got me also. I assume he means 1" long.
I'm a fan of Wiha

 

[username2]

PB Swiss?

 

[cgv69]

Yeah, that got me also. I assume he means 1" long.
I'm a fan of Wiha

Yes, 1" (25mm) long. I thought that would be obvious but I guess not so I edited my original post.

I'm not opposed to Wiha as I have other tools from them that I've been happy with but reviews on Amazon claim that Wiha has gone made in China with their bits and they are not what they used to be?

The big thing for me is I need bits that are precision ground to exact sizes. I have some Chapman MFG bits which are awesome and fit that description. When you insert them into a screw head, they go all the way in (some other bits are tapered so they don't seat to full depth) and once seated, there is almost zero play before engaging. The problem with the Chapmans is their design doesn't play well with my drivers (ratcheting & torque). I have other standard bits that are decent quality S2 steel bits but they are not made to the same precision so they don't always seat fully into the screw head and have more slop then I would like before engaging. Even my Snap-On bits (Apex?) are not as precision as the Chapman bits

Basically I need Chapman quality but in a design that's meant for standard 1/4" drivers.

Thanks

 

[cgv69]

PB Swiss?

Those look real nice but Ouchy price wise! lol

Do know of a good (i.e. less expensive) source for those?

 

[billspreston]

PB Swiss bits (Made in Switzerland) are second-to-none in my biased opinion! If you want precision and a reputable COO you can’t miss.

 

[Kscardsfan]

Yes, 1" (25mm) long. I thought that would be obvious but I guess not so I edited my original post.

I'm not opposed to Wiha as I have other tools from them that I've been happy with but reviews on Amazon claim that Wiha has gone made in China with their bits and they are not what they used to be?

The big thing for me is I need bits that are precision ground to exact sizes. I have some Chapman MFG bits which are awesome and fit that description. When you insert them into a screw head, they go all the way in (some other bits are tapered so they don't seat to full depth) and once seated, there is almost zero play before engaging. The problem with the Chapmans is their design doesn't play well with my drivers (ratcheting & torque). I have other standard bits that are decent quality S2 steel bits but they are not made to the same precision so they don't always seat fully into the screw head and have more slop then I would like before engaging. Even my Snap-On bits (Apex?) are not as precision as the Chapman bits

Basically I need Chapman quality but in a design that's meant for standard 1/4" drivers.

Thanks

You tried the Brownell’s magna-tip bits? I’ve had good luck with them overall.

 

[Steve_P]

Yes, 1" (25mm) long. I thought that would be obvious but I guess not so I edited my original post.

I'm not opposed to Wiha as I have other tools from them that I've been happy with but reviews on Amazon claim that Wiha has gone made in China with their bits and they are not what they used to be?

The big thing for me is I need bits that are precision ground to exact sizes. I have some Chapman MFG bits which are awesome and fit that description. When you insert them into a screw head, they go all the way in (some other bits are tapered so they don't seat to full depth) and once seated, there is almost zero play before engaging. The problem with the Chapmans is their design doesn't play well with my drivers (ratcheting & torque). I have other standard bits that are decent quality S2 steel bits but they are not made to the same precision so they don't always seat fully into the screw head and have more slop then I would like before engaging. Even my Snap-On bits (Apex?) are not as precision as the Chapman bits

Basically I need Chapman quality but in a design that's meant for standard 1/4" drivers.

Thanks

Wiha has moved some production to Vietnam. If you have an issue with that, then I'd suggest Wera. PB Swiss is just too expensive in the US and not worth the premium IMO. People here swear they're the best, but the limited test results show they're, at best, at the middle of the premium brands.

 

[cgv69]

You tried the Brownell’s magna-tip bits? I’ve had good luck with them overall.

Their flat blade drivers are reportedly very nice (they're hollow ground which is a good thing). I was thinking about getting some actually but I think may just stick with my Chapmans for flat head screws. I don't trust Brownell's hex and torx bits though. Too many reports of them being soft and damaging easy. Some argue that's a good thing (rather mess up the bit then the screw) but IMO, a quality made bit shouldn't do that and won't strip a screw if it fits precisely and is used correctly (unless maybe its just a junk screw to start with?)

Wiha has moved some production to Vietnam. If you have an issue with that, then I'd suggest Wera. PB Swiss is just too expensive in the US and not worth the premium IMO. People here swear they're the best, but the limited test results show they're, at best, at the middle of the premium brands.

The only 2 COO's I have an issue with is China and India because I've never gotten anything of quality from those places. I read somewhere people stating Wiha's were made in China now but I know some people think anything that comes from Asia means China (or at least the same quality level as Chinese) but I do know better. I may order some from Amazon as they have a good and easy return policy

Those PB's are pricey but if they were the best I could maybe **** it up. I do like the color coding on them but if they are only middle of the road then no thanks, especially at that price.

I think what I'm going to do is just order a few bits from each MFG in the most common sizes I use to see for myself which one seems to be the most precise before investing in a full kit.

 

[bob15]

Yes, 1" (25mm) long. I thought that would be obvious but I guess not so I edited my original post.

I'm not opposed to Wiha as I have other tools from them that I've been happy with but reviews on Amazon claim that Wiha has gone made in China with their bits and they are not what they used to be?

The big thing for me is I need bits that are precision ground to exact sizes. I have some Chapman MFG bits which are awesome and fit that description. When you insert them into a screw head, they go all the way in (some other bits are tapered so they don't seat to full depth) and once seated, there is almost zero play before engaging. The problem with the Chapmans is their design doesn't play well with my drivers (ratcheting & torque). I have other standard bits that are decent quality S2 steel bits but they are not made to the same precision so they don't always seat fully into the screw head and have more slop then I would like before engaging. Even my Snap-On bits (Apex?) are not as precision as the Chapman bits

Basically I need Chapman quality but in a design that's meant for standard 1/4" drivers.

Thanks

Why not stick with Chapman by taking their extension and cutting to a shorter length, then use a magnetic 1/4 drive socket to hold the chapman extension/bit? It has worked just fine for me for the past 20 or so years.

Take this and cut it to the depth of a magnetic holder and insert into holder. now you can use the Chapman bits. Sanp On and Apex both sell magnetic holders. There are also holders with a set-screw.

 

[dnschmidt]

How could this thread go so long without a mention of VEGA or Zephyr? Both American made and top of the line. I buy Vega from R. S. Hughes.

 

[Odd-job]

I think the Vega I bought from Zoro last time around is Taiwan made if that matters. At least the impacting stuff.

Have bought Zephyr bits off of McMaster Carr which have treated me good and are good quality.

Trying to source Mac rbrt in Allen and Torx, but all the popular sizes have been sold out on the website. Made in Taiwan, but they work so good (especially on semi stripped stuff) I stopped caring where they came from.

 

[cgv69]

Why not stick with Chapman by taking their extension and cutting to a shorter length, then use a magnetic 1/4 drive socket to hold the chapman extension/bit? It has worked just fine for me for the past 20 or so years.

That's just not the way I roll. I'm not cutting up nice tools to try and make them work in a way they weren't designed to work. Not when I can just buy some new bits that will work for my other drivers.

I actually really like the Chapman stuff and they have some unique features too. For instance, for really stuck fasteners, I like to set it up this way...



That allows me to use one hand to keep pressure down into the fastener to keep the bit from "jumping" and potentially damaging the the head while your other hand has the leverage it needs to turn the screw. This works great for stuck/stubborn screws.

Basically I will keep and use the Chapman set for situations where it excels and get the new bits for my standard drivers for new work/everyday type tasks (and torque work)

 

[cgv69]

I think the Vega I bought from Zoro last time around is Taiwan made if that matters. At least the impacting stuff.

I've been pretty happy with stuff I've gotten that was made in Taiwan. Kind of hate to say it but often its as good if not better then some US made tools I've had.

I will look into the Vega and Zephyr brand bits as well. Thanks

 

[Steve_P]

I've been pretty happy with stuff I've gotten that was made in Taiwan. Kind of hate to say it but often its as good if not better then some US made tools I've had.

I will look into the Vega and Zephyr brand bits as well. Thanks

The better brand (Tekton, VIM, Capri...) Taiwan sockets, ratchets, and bit sockets are as good or better than anything else- less maybe Snap On- I don't have anything recent from them. They really have figured this out.

 

[ChapmanMFG]

That's just not the way I roll. I'm not cutting up nice tools to try and make them work in a way they weren't designed to work. Not when I can just buy some new bits that will work for my other drivers.

I actually really like the Chapman stuff and they have some unique features too. For instance, for really stuck fasteners, I like to set it up this way...



That allows me to use one hand to keep pressure down into the fastener to keep the bit from "jumping" and potentially damaging the the head while your other hand has the leverage it needs to turn the screw. This works great for stuck/stubborn screws.

Basically I will keep and use the Chapman set for situations where it excels and get the new bits for my standard drivers for new work/everyday type tasks (and torque work)

Hi, glad to hear that you really like our stuff, and thanks for posting the handle/extension/ratchet combo picture! Not many people know about that feature of our tools and I've been trying to inform people for a few years. Personally it's not a combination that I use frequently, but it is useful in certain applications.

As you probably know, we're a small shop (about 15 of us) and the majority of our new customers learn about us from existing customers. I really appreciate you plugging our tools on here, it helps us compete against the giant conglomerate manufactures with huge ad budgets in our industry.

Joel
Chapman MFG

 

[Boogerman]

MRO Tools

Zephyr screwdriver bits. All Zephyr Bits are heat treated in small lots for consistent quality and are proudly made in the USA.

mrotools.com

Like Zephyr best all bits I try. Chapman make very good bits, like tip design flats better than Zephyr. Have decent price, and USA made, which requirement for me. Where they lose competition is not have good drivers, only bits, and bits not fit other drivers.

Joel, if Chapman make line of standard 1/4" hex bits, would be very successful gunsmiths. Really like bit tips, especially flats. But, included drivers can't compete for usability with Snap-on ratcheting handle and MAC mini ratchet. If fit my good drivers, I'd buy every bit you make.

Here my Chapman, and one of my user sets. Have 4 of these sets different locations in shop.




Here buy Chapman:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IT4WU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IT4WU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[KnurledNut]

@cgv69
Did you decide on a set yet?

 

[Iridium rand]

Wera is exactly what you’re looking for and their bit cases are awesome too, i use the gold colored diamond bits, not cheap but surprisingly they do work really well and even more surprisingly the coating doesn’t just wear off after a few uses, only bits I’ve been able to use to drive self-tapping philips screws into aluminum without slipping for instance.

 

[Crabman]

Joel and all,

thanks for posting the handle/extension/ratchet combo picture!

Reminds me of the Swallow Airplane Company Tuffy screwdriver, very historic piece.

Here is an example:

Vintage 1940's Tuffy Swallow Airplane Co. Aluminum Hi-Torque Lever Screwdriver | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage 1940's Tuffy Swallow Airplane Co. Aluminum Hi-Torque Lever Screwdriver at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Don't want to steal the OP's thread, I was glad to learn about Chapman.

Bruce

 

[cgv69]

@cgv69
Did you decide on a set yet?

I tried some Wiha and some Wera bits. They weren't bad but not as good IMO as the Chapman bits.

Joel, if Chapman make line of standard 1/4" hex bits, would be very successful gunsmiths. Really like bit tips, especially flats. But, included drivers can't compete for usability with Snap-on ratcheting handle and MAC mini ratchet. If fit my good drivers, I'd buy every bit you make.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I love Chapman bits but I also love Snap Ratcheting drivers so the idea that I could have the best of both worlds (standard 1/4" hex bits made by Chapman that work properly in my SnapOn and Torque drivers) would heaven.

So baring that, looks like I need to try some Zephyr's

 

[Pexto]

Another name that hasn't been mentioned yet is Felo. I've got one of their bit ratchet kits and the bits are very nice. The only complaint I have is that some of the hex bits are ground completely square on the end (no chamfer whatsoever), so inserting them in the hex screw is a little fiddly sometimes.

I really like the few Wera bits I have as well. But my favorites are the PB Swiss; the fit and finish is the best I've seen. I particularly like the 2" bits as I don't drop them as often as the 1" bits and they don't seem to roll as far under the workbench.

 

[JradM]

Vessel too.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Try Apex.

I don't see Hoffman Group USA listing PB Swiss bits (quick glance on my phone) but they do relabel their screwdrivers under their Garant label. Maybe ask them directly.

 

[KnurledNut]

Try Apex.

I don't see Hoffman Group USA listing PB Swiss bits (quick glance on my phone) but they do relabel their screwdrivers under their Garant label. Maybe ask them directly.

I have seen rebranded PBS bits in their multi-bit stubby, but i dont know if they are sold individually.

Pic from ebay:

 

[ChapmanMFG]

MRO Tools

Zephyr screwdriver bits. All Zephyr Bits are heat treated in small lots for consistent quality and are proudly made in the USA.

mrotools.com

Like Zephyr best all bits I try. Chapman make very good bits, like tip design flats better than Zephyr. Have decent price, and USA made, which requirement for me. Where they lose competition is not have good drivers, only bits, and bits not fit other drivers.

Joel, if Chapman make line of standard 1/4" hex bits, would be very successful gunsmiths. Really like bit tips, especially flats. But, included drivers can't compete for usability with Snap-on ratcheting handle and MAC mini ratchet. If fit my good drivers, I'd buy every bit you make.

Here my Chapman, and one of my user sets. Have 4 of these sets different locations in shop.




Here buy Chapman:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IT4WU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IT4WU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Hi, not sure what you mean? We do make a 14 different size/shaped flathead bits https://chapmanmfg.com/products/slotted-insert-bits?_pos=2&_sid=09fee9236&_ss=r

 

[KnurledNut]

Hi, not sure what you mean? We do make a 14 different size/shaped flathead bits https://chapmanmfg.com/products/slotted-insert-bits?_pos=2&_sid=09fee9236&_ss=r

I think what he is saying is that your bits are proprietary and only work with your handle and driver, that are antiquated.

 

[Boogerman]

Hi, not sure what you mean? We do make a 14 different size/shaped flathead bits https://chapmanmfg.com/products/slotted-insert-bits?_pos=2&_sid=09fee9236&_ss=r

I think what he is saying is that your bits are proprietary and only work with your handle and driver, that are antiquated.

Yes, KnurledNut, you have it right. Antiquated is a kind term for that "North Brothers Yankee 3400 Screwdriver" design ratchet used by Chapman. Repeating to be clear:

Chapman makes good quality bits, really like tip shape. Put those features on bit that is same shape as rest of the world standard, and you'd be quite competitive. As it is, your drivers ****, and a person has to use those to utilize the good bits you make. If you made good bits that fit other makers excellent drivers, you'd be immersing yourself in a sea of competitors, but would immensely increase your market to those that want both good bits and good drivers.

Put all the features on the left hand column "Chapman 1/4" drive bits" onto a bit shaped like the right hand column "Other 1/4" drive bits" sized package and you'd have a great product instead of a good, but nearly unusable one.

I've probably bought 200 Zephyr bits since I bought the Chapman set I showed in my post. I haven't bought any Chapman, although price per bit is similar and I think they are superior bits. I take the time to grind or machine standard bits to shape, that I could just buy Chapman if they made them with the right shank.

 

[Boogerman]

I use insert bits a lot. Tried many; arrived mostly at get old MAC SPMR123 bit sets, toss the drivers, keep MAC bit ratchet, and substitute Snap-on drivers. When bits break, replace with Zephyr. Have a Chapman set that good bits, but weird bit shank, poor driver handles. Have expensive but proprietary Wadsworth Falls Mini ratchet system(https://wfmc.shop/collections/all). Also have Brownells set bought years ago before found could get wide range Zephyr and MAC instead. Nothing wrong Brownells, just mediocre driver and pain to buy if not buying all time for gunshop anyway. Nothing compares to plain 1/4" hex and 5/16" hex insert bits with good drivers.

Here's a few of my sets in use and the chapman and WFR sets that don't get used much because of odd bit design.

 

[BTL-A4]

The big thing for me is I need bits that are precision ground to exact sizes. I have some Chapman MFG bits which are awesome and fit that description. When you insert them into a screw head, they go all the way in (some other bits are tapered so they don't seat to full depth) and once seated, there is almost zero play before engaging. The problem with the Chapmans is their design doesn't play well with my drivers (ratcheting & torque). I have other standard bits that are decent quality S2 steel bits but they are not made to the same precision so they don't always seat fully into the screw head and have more slop then I would like before engaging. Even my Snap-On bits (Apex?) are not as precision as the Chapman bits

Basically I need Chapman quality but in a design that's meant for standard 1/4" drivers.

Chapman makes screwdriver handles and ratchets. Maybe I missed something, but have you considered buying those?

I'm curious about how the Chapman bits aren't fitting your other 1/4" drive tools?

 

[AirMech#406]

PB Swiss?

+1
The fit of PB Swiss bits is incredible. If you can afford to take a swing at them I highly recommend. I try to reserve my PB Swiss bits for removing delicate or hard to reach screws like the ones that hold avionics trays/equipment in.

Otherwise I use the Milwaukee impact bits in my driver for running screws on inspection panels. So far I have been impressed with the fit and longevity of the milwaukee bits, but I know you said that you'd like to stay away from China so that might not suit you.

 

[cgv69]

Chapman makes screwdriver handles and ratchets. Maybe I missed something, but have you considered buying those?

I'm curious about how the Chapman bits aren't fitting your other 1/4" drive tools?

Yes, I have them but my prefered drive is the SnapOn ratching drivers...



The problem with the bits is trying to use them with most other non-chapman drivers is the nub on the end of them. It does not allow them to be fulling inserted into most other drivers...



This is as far in as they can be inserted into a SnapOn driver and just about every other non-Chapman driver I've tried...



The bit has to be inserted deep enough to engage the ball detent but that's not possible with most drivers because most of them are designed for standard 1/4" drive bits which do not have a ball detent so instead, the drivers have a magnet at the correct depth for standard hex bits. That magnet, combined with the nub I circled above keep the Chapman bits from working other drivers.

 

[silkman]

Witte bits are great, Made in Germany and in good price but good luck finding them...

 

[KnurledNut]

@cgv69
Here’s a few options I personally have that are Chapman friendly:

Anex No. 397 Ratcheting Screwdriver
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KYL5J5Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Vessel 270BW Stubby Screwdriver
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E55DNGY/?tag=atomicindus08-20
GearWrench MicroDriver
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0062FSAVI/?tag=atomicindus08-20
VIM RFB400K (lots of other brands that use the same ratchet mechanism)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GL29FCJ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It would be nice if we had a comprehensive list of different options people are using.

 

[Boogerman]

A person can shop for obscure drivers that accept Chapman bit, hope they better than Chapman drivers. Or, can just buy standard 1/4" bit used by rest of world and industry and use with whatever driver they prefer, including obscure ones that accept Chapman bit. Makes Chapman hard rationalize buy for me, even though I like quality and design and made USA. Sometimes being stuck in rut while rest of world takes different road isn't where you should be, but I know nothing about finances and market share Chapman has, and how good a business model for them. Might be niche that they're filling??? I'll be first concede they're decent quality bits, just don't work for me because of compatibility. If you're willing to build your system around odd configuration, they would be good choice.

 

[AndreaW]

Just wanted to report that the 711L bit driver ratchets work with Chapman bits.