I put my Euco on today, I used a new push broom to spread it around. Tried to keep it wet per instructions but it was hard to do with no building over it and a warm sunny day. Its shiny but somehow not slippery. Made the mistake of walking in it and then onto an uncoated area. It left a footprint. Used the whole 5 gallons on my 30 by 34. Really made sure it was coated in front of my overhead door. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow
best sealant. not epoxy
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Congratulations, Walrus!
Guys, I had my heart set on applying applying Euco Diamond Hard on my 50-yr old untreated floor. But two phone calls yesterday have me rethinking this.
While calling around for prices on Diamond Hard, a local cement guy recommended by Euclid discourage using EDH because it requires regular maintenance). So, I called Euclid tech support again to ask what they recommend. They tech support people at Euclid are great.
I told Amy my goal is an easily cleaned, maintenance-free surface, resistant to spills, not too slippery. She said EDH only repels water, is not waterproof, and because the pores are not sealed, "stuff gets in there, which you have to clean out". She said EDH is more suited for warehouses and forklifts than residential garages, because, I think she said, they maintain floors regularly in warehouses.
She recommended a good silane/siloxane-based sealant.
I'm reconsidering my choice of EDH. Instead, I'm considering laying down clear epoxy on top of VCT, hopefully for $1 sq/ft, as member mgriggs on did:
My VCT/Epoxy Install from a Disaster (lots of pics)...$1 sq/ft
Please, I invite your comments.
Guys, I had my heart set on applying applying Euco Diamond Hard on my 50-yr old untreated floor. But two phone calls yesterday have me rethinking this.
While calling around for prices on Diamond Hard, a local cement guy recommended by Euclid discourage using EDH because it requires regular maintenance). So, I called Euclid tech support again to ask what they recommend. They tech support people at Euclid are great.
I told Amy my goal is an easily cleaned, maintenance-free surface, resistant to spills, not too slippery. She said EDH only repels water, is not waterproof, and because the pores are not sealed, "stuff gets in there, which you have to clean out". She said EDH is more suited for warehouses and forklifts than residential garages, because, I think she said, they maintain floors regularly in warehouses.
She recommended a good silane/siloxane-based sealant.
I'm reconsidering my choice of EDH. Instead, I'm considering laying down clear epoxy on top of VCT, hopefully for $1 sq/ft, as member mgriggs on did:
My VCT/Epoxy Install from a Disaster (lots of pics)...$1 sq/ft
Please, I invite your comments.
Walter
Active member
This IS breaking news!
I gave up on the Euco Diamond Hard as well. If it will not seal out oil, etc. then I may as well leave the floor as it is. Every few months, I can clean any oil drips with a bit of degreaser and then mop it up. The really good solutions are too expensive, and the cheaper stuff either degrades or needs maintenance. Think I'll go with bare concrete which can be occasionally cleaned.
Walter
Active member
I can't imagine what regular maintenance needs to be done. My reason for choosing this product was to eliminate the concrete dust. This was an alternative to painting the floor which would require regular maintenance. And I wasn't going to pay the high price of epoxy on 2000 sq/ft. One of the bennies was that it is resistant to spills but you must wipe them up if you don't want it to stain. All in all it is still a concrete floor and I don't regret having applied it, not for $184. Best of luck guys!!
Well, I've decided to apply Euco Diamond Hard after all. I've been every which way, and come back full circle. <Whew!>
MrWhy19: Don't give up on Euco because of what I said earlier about maintenance. I called Euco tech support, again, and talked to Amy, again. Upon second examination, she said EDH DOES NOT require maintenance, and is a "good compromise" to doing an epoxy project. She also said EDH does a better job sealing than sealers... Sealers leave pores open, but leave a coating on the inside. Densifiers leave pores open, do not coat anything, but chemically react with the concrete, making the pores smaller. EDH sounds like less maintenance, provided you wipe spills up promptly, and longer lasting than sealers. And a heck of a lot cheaper than epoxy.
So, I'm back, sipping the Euco Kool Aid with you all. I manually scrubbed the floor twice and w/Behr cleaner (That stuff's caustic as hell. Burned my leg. "Biodegradable" my foot.) Rinsed w/power washer til midnight. Wow, what a job!
Next step, maybe Thursday, lay down the Euco! You'd think I was getting a new roof, or something. It's my first house, and feel like I'm doing something.
Walter, thank you in advance for turning me on to the Diamond Hard.
Scott
MrWhy19: Don't give up on Euco because of what I said earlier about maintenance. I called Euco tech support, again, and talked to Amy, again. Upon second examination, she said EDH DOES NOT require maintenance, and is a "good compromise" to doing an epoxy project. She also said EDH does a better job sealing than sealers... Sealers leave pores open, but leave a coating on the inside. Densifiers leave pores open, do not coat anything, but chemically react with the concrete, making the pores smaller. EDH sounds like less maintenance, provided you wipe spills up promptly, and longer lasting than sealers. And a heck of a lot cheaper than epoxy.
So, I'm back, sipping the Euco Kool Aid with you all. I manually scrubbed the floor twice and w/Behr cleaner (That stuff's caustic as hell. Burned my leg. "Biodegradable" my foot.) Rinsed w/power washer til midnight. Wow, what a job!
Next step, maybe Thursday, lay down the Euco! You'd think I was getting a new roof, or something. It's my first house, and feel like I'm doing something.
Walter, thank you in advance for turning me on to the Diamond Hard.
Scott
Walter
Active member
Well, good Scott. I think if you spray on a bit heavy and do not use the buffer to work it in it will look fine and do it's job. Then buff it afterward.
Mine looks fine. I was over-analyzing everything I did. This isn't rocket science. I've not had a single comment on my floor asking about foot prints or that brown color I told you about. It's blended in.
I have since moved on to other things. Landscaping and sod. I had the shock of paying the electricians $6100 to wire it up (I have T5 light fixtures) and the power company $2100 for underground cable and a new meter. Building a workbench. Cut the grass. Saturday I have a guy coming to install the door operators and that will just about complete my project.
Mine looks fine. I was over-analyzing everything I did. This isn't rocket science. I've not had a single comment on my floor asking about foot prints or that brown color I told you about. It's blended in.
I have since moved on to other things. Landscaping and sod. I had the shock of paying the electricians $6100 to wire it up (I have T5 light fixtures) and the power company $2100 for underground cable and a new meter. Building a workbench. Cut the grass. Saturday I have a guy coming to install the door operators and that will just about complete my project.
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This is what my floor looks like after Euco was put on. It was put on before the building was built obviously
, I think that made it dry to quick as it was a sunny day. This is going to be a working shop, no fridge, no tiles, no tv, so function is what I want. I was looking for something to help keep the floor clean and keep dust down
, I think that made it dry to quick as it was a sunny day. This is going to be a working shop, no fridge, no tiles, no tv, so function is what I want. I was looking for something to help keep the floor clean and keep dust downAttachments
Walter
Active member
It looks fine.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
This may cost you more in the future if you decide to upgrade to a better system. Usually to remove such sealers, some contractors charge anywhere from $.50 to $1 sqft for removal. Good luck with your project.
Tom, is it worth buying a small sprayer to apply it as you did, or do you think I can spill a pail of Euco on the floor and brush it around for 30 minutes, then squeegee or rinse off?
That project of yours seems like something for the Army Corps or TVA! After recovering from the shock of the electrician's fee, and digging life with the landscaper and letting the doorman in, you'll be getting down to some real work?! Muchos Kudos. Scott.
Chris Adams
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
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- 2,117
On the Euco Diamond Hard, does it make the floor slippery?
Is it good for outdoors slabs?
I read what I could but nothing is said about how it makes the floor, and on the outdoors the search hits seem to say yes, no, maybe.
I going with Epoxy in the shop, but I have 320 square foot in two new slabs that I would like to protect a little.
I need to avoid making them too slippery if possible.
Is it good for outdoors slabs?
I read what I could but nothing is said about how it makes the floor, and on the outdoors the search hits seem to say yes, no, maybe.
I going with Epoxy in the shop, but I have 320 square foot in two new slabs that I would like to protect a little.
I need to avoid making them too slippery if possible.
Didn't make mine slippery although that might change with water on it?. Is your ourdoor slab really smooth, did they power trowel it?
Chris Adams
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,117
Not super smooth, like the inside of the shop. Not real rough like my sidewalks either.
No way to add grit or sand with the EDH, is there?
No way to add grit as the EDH sinks in.
Walter
Active member
Tom, is it worth buying a small sprayer to apply it as you did, or do you think I can spill a pail of Euco on the floor and brush it around for 30 minutes, then squeegee or rinse off?
That project of yours seems like something for the Army Corps or TVA! After recovering from the shock of the electrician's fee, and digging life with the landscaper and letting the doorman in, you'll be getting down to some real work?! Muchos Kudos. Scott.
Scott,
The pail thing might work but I really don't have any experience doing it that way. Yeah, I think the sprayer would be best. Make sure you attach the wand so it will be easier on your back. (I just found the wand in the box earlier this week. 2 weeks after I sprayed it on.) I can't remember how many Sq/ft you have but I think spraying will allow you to better judge how much you are applying.
I also found that using the squigee was a pain in the ***. The liquid would start to gell and stick to the squigee and the excess would come out at both ends. Then when I set down to pull the excess off again it would create a line of gell on the floor that I would have to squigee off again. So I had to constantly mess with it. BUT, it did remove the excess and smooth the surface perfectly. I found using the squigee was a pain on 2000 sq/ft but if you have less area then it may be worth the effort.
As far as being slipery, I don't think so. I still feel plenty of friction under my feet. I remember in the late 1960's when I was a kid and my neighbor would bust his chin every year (or so it seemed) requiring stitches from running and slipping on the concrete. This was a very smooth trowelled concrete driveway that was wet from us running in and out of the pool. My point being that when wet, a smooth trowelled concrete surface can be be slippery anyway. But yours is 50 years old and probably has plenty of surface friction.
benjamming
Well-known member
Can it successfully be applied to a broom finish concrete such as a driveway/sidewalk or will the appearance be bad?
Tom,
Thanks much. I plan to apply my Euco tomorrow. The Diamond Hard liquid is quite caustic - alkaline pH13-14. Did you use a chemically resistant sprayer? Home Depot has a bunch of crappy sprayers, might not be safe with the Euco. I can't wait to get this done!
Thanks for all your good words. I hope your project is everything you hoped it would be.
Scott
Benjamming,
Euco tech support keeps saying there won't be much difference in the look after applying EDH. Unless you polish it. I would think it would be beneficial to put it down on your concrete driveway/sidewalk.
Walter
Active member
No problem. I also applied it to the apron which has a broom finish and it soaked right in without a problem. You'll probably see the lines where you applied it but the lines will go away in a couple of weeks.
Walter
Active member
Yeah get a Home Depot sprayer for 30 bucks. I had no problems with it being caustic or fumes or anything. Just don't drink it.
Thank you. This project exceeded all my expectations, including the cost, but it is a most excellent garage. Once again, I will try to post some pics soon. There is not much to see as far as the floor is concerned but the pics should give you an idea what I've been dealing with.
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Tom,
Did you use a chemically resistant sprayer?
2 gal size sprayer better than 1 gal size?
Scott
Walter
Active member
No, it was an every day variety garden sprayer. I think I had a 3 gal but 2 gal will be better than a 1 gallon sprayer.
benjamming
Well-known member
Walter,
So on the broom finish just clean it with a pressure washer, apply with a sprayer, let sit until begin to gel & hose off into the grass/dirt?
So on the broom finish just clean it with a pressure washer, apply with a sprayer, let sit until begin to gel & hose off into the grass/dirt?
Walter
Active member
I would not use water to remove the excess. I would sweep it off. I don't think it will hurt the grass. Have you read the "Directions for Use" yet?
Hey, guys, I did my floor on Sunday. Never really seemed to gel, but did get more slippery. I used a floor buffer w/white polishing pad to help work the Euco in. Didn't seem to make a difference, and tore the pad to shreds within a few minutes. I continued just with the nylon bristles out of sheer stubbornness for one side. Then continued working the material in using the push broom. After letting it set for a few hours I washed it off (which is recommended for existing floors*). Plus, I didn't want to wrestle again with the buffer after it dried. (It wasn't anywhere close to drying... strange.) My wife sprayed water while I scrubbed with a push broom. Then I squeegeed it (the floor, not my wife!). It's still damp in there - been very humid here. It looks good. But not very much different. A little darker, a little more like granite. I hope so.
*According to detailed "Applying Ashford Formula" instructions, attached.
Walter (Tom),
I want to thank you for the encouragement and guidance in what you already know to be a simple project.
Thanks again!
Scott(Albi)
*According to detailed "Applying Ashford Formula" instructions, attached.
Walter (Tom),
I want to thank you for the encouragement and guidance in what you already know to be a simple project.
Thanks again!
Scott(Albi)
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Walter
Active member
I'm glad it went well.
I am curious as to why you followed the instructions for Ashford Formula instead of the instructions for Diamond Hard.
I am curious as to why you followed the instructions for Ashford Formula instead of the instructions for Diamond Hard.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Doesn't sound like it went too well. Are you being facetious?
Walter
Active member
No, I wasn't being facetious. I had my own problems when I did mine. I used the black buffing pads. Though tougher, using the buffer with the black pad was still difficult to operate until after the product dried. Scott used the white pad which is a less coarse and lighter weight.
On another point, he still kept the floor wet and used a broom to break the surface tension. He should be confident that it soaked in properly.
Walter is quite right - I kept brooming, more or less for about an hour. The instructions (for both Euco Diamond Hard and Ashford Formula) recommend brooming or power scrubbing for about 30 minutes to break the surface tension, until the material gels.
The instructions for Ashford Formula were nearly identical to Euco DH, but more detailed: they include slight modifications depending on your floor's condition. Ashford's instructions for existing floors with the Euco not soaking in entirely are:
II. INSTRUCTIONS FOR EXISTING CONCRETE:
...
Step 2 Option 2. If after 30 40 minutes the majority of the Ashford Formula is still on the surface, wait until it becomes slippery underfoot, then
thoroughly flush the entire surface with clear water and squeegee completely dry to remove all Ashford Formula residue.
...
I may have gotten best results waiting overnight and buffing, but I had neither the time nor energy to spend the next day. I had spent weeks researching "the Garage Floor solution" and days washing the floor already. As this was only one of many tasks to moving into our new (50-year old) home, time was up. I really don't regret doing it this way.
I do recommend using a 2 or 3 gal sprayer, a large push broom and a large squeegee. Whew, it's done. The floor is definitely not going to produce dust, and will probably maintain integrity for a long time.
Chow, Hounds!
Scott
Walter
Active member
Well good. After applying the concrete densifier I am confident that concrete dust will not be tracked into my home or inhaled by children. I am relieved!! Think of the money we have saved instead of using more expensive alternatives.
The next thing we need to do is list our lessons learned in order to help others who are considering this much lower cost application.
The next thing we need to do is list our lessons learned in order to help others who are considering this much lower cost application.
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My Euco has been on for a month now. I applied it before the building was built. Well my building is water tight now, roof, windows, no garage door yet but.... The carpenters are gone for a week waiting for some special order stuff. I was out there today doing some electrical. I got fed up with the mess and cleaned up. The floor is great, can't tell I did anything to it but it sweeps up like a dream. It looks great
Great thread. Thank you.
I am considering the Euco Diamond densifier as well for a garage pour that is happening in the next few weeks.
What surface finish is best for the Euco Diamond product? Light broom or smooth troweled?
Anybody know how well it blocks moisture drive from below?
For new pours the application information says wait at least 7 days before applying. Has anybody applied it sooner?
Has anyone considered the Eucosil?
The instructions also mention if it contacts wood to wash it immediately. Anyone know what it does if you do not clean it off wood?
Thanks,
Tim
I am considering the Euco Diamond densifier as well for a garage pour that is happening in the next few weeks.
What surface finish is best for the Euco Diamond product? Light broom or smooth troweled?
Anybody know how well it blocks moisture drive from below?
For new pours the application information says wait at least 7 days before applying. Has anybody applied it sooner?
Has anyone considered the Eucosil?
The instructions also mention if it contacts wood to wash it immediately. Anyone know what it does if you do not clean it off wood?
Thanks,
Tim
to whom it may concern... i have three 55 gal drums of EUCO diamond hard i am selling for $600 dollars a drum. i picked it up at the end of our walmart job.... they hit the floors with a scotch brite like buffing pad then brushed on the diamond hard and it looks beautiful. 425-876-5648
Walter
Active member
I used it on both. The barn floor is smooth troweled and the apron is broomed. It did well on both.
I think you'll need to do some of your own reasearch to see if it blocks moisture from under the concrete. I thought I read something about that but I'm not sure.
I applied diamond hard to my new 1800 sq ft. shop two weeks ago. The application process was not smooth, and I want to talk about what went wrong, so perhaps others can benefit. I still like the product, and if I had to do it over again, I'm not sure exactly what I would do differently, but certainly my expectations about the process, going in, were not met.
The stuff apparently creates an instant reaction with concrete, and I'm not sure why, but when they talk about don't step on untreated areas with wet shoes, they are right! In fact, squeegie marks, all kinds of things, will leave lasting areas of treated concrete that you cannot change, even when you come back with new Euco. Same with drops from the sprayer. Even if you are moving stuff with a squeegie and it splashes some product on a new area, you just got splash marks that aren't going away.
The instructions talk about wetting it down and pushing all the water to a new area to be treated -- I did this, but its part of why the process just doesn't go well...I think the watered down Euco isnt quite as strong as the original stuff. I did leave some areas that were a little thick, and they show now.
I think the basic problem was that I was working solo, and trying to treat one area at a time. So, I often had to stop and go back to the areas I had already treated, wet down, move water, etc. My opinion is that the whole thing would be much better done with a team, and doing it all at once...spray the entire surface, wet the entire surface, and then get it all off using squeegies and perhaps some mops.
Probably the bottom line is that the process just isn't that smooth (others on the forum mention problems too) and you will add imperfections to the floor...but, who cares? My floor already has all kind of imperfections from the troweling, and its destined to be a working garage and shop. Some of the problems I introduced -- a few footprints, some places it gelled up because I didnt get it off, well..no big deal.
I bought 10 gallons and only used about 6 on the first coat, perhaps due to the density of the concrete or my technique. Given that I had extra, I put down a second coat about a week later. For that, what I did was use a mop and simply lay down another coat on top. Now that I had experience, I knew to watch very closely for any areas where there were drops on the surface -- I went back on my hands with rags and dried off where I could...I'm sure I missed some areas but the mop left it pretty thin anyway.
The second coat *does* make a difference as to how it looks, left it a bit darker after the 2nd coat.
I'm hoping I can forget about the floor now, and it does clean up very well...also, water soaked a bit in after just one coat (mopped it clean) but after 2nd coat, water just stands on the surface and sits, even after hours. Not at all slippery. Epoxy was not an option, this still seems like a pretty good choice.
-Todzo
The stuff apparently creates an instant reaction with concrete, and I'm not sure why, but when they talk about don't step on untreated areas with wet shoes, they are right! In fact, squeegie marks, all kinds of things, will leave lasting areas of treated concrete that you cannot change, even when you come back with new Euco. Same with drops from the sprayer. Even if you are moving stuff with a squeegie and it splashes some product on a new area, you just got splash marks that aren't going away.
The instructions talk about wetting it down and pushing all the water to a new area to be treated -- I did this, but its part of why the process just doesn't go well...I think the watered down Euco isnt quite as strong as the original stuff. I did leave some areas that were a little thick, and they show now.
I think the basic problem was that I was working solo, and trying to treat one area at a time. So, I often had to stop and go back to the areas I had already treated, wet down, move water, etc. My opinion is that the whole thing would be much better done with a team, and doing it all at once...spray the entire surface, wet the entire surface, and then get it all off using squeegies and perhaps some mops.
Probably the bottom line is that the process just isn't that smooth (others on the forum mention problems too) and you will add imperfections to the floor...but, who cares? My floor already has all kind of imperfections from the troweling, and its destined to be a working garage and shop. Some of the problems I introduced -- a few footprints, some places it gelled up because I didnt get it off, well..no big deal.
I bought 10 gallons and only used about 6 on the first coat, perhaps due to the density of the concrete or my technique. Given that I had extra, I put down a second coat about a week later. For that, what I did was use a mop and simply lay down another coat on top. Now that I had experience, I knew to watch very closely for any areas where there were drops on the surface -- I went back on my hands with rags and dried off where I could...I'm sure I missed some areas but the mop left it pretty thin anyway.
The second coat *does* make a difference as to how it looks, left it a bit darker after the 2nd coat.
I'm hoping I can forget about the floor now, and it does clean up very well...also, water soaked a bit in after just one coat (mopped it clean) but after 2nd coat, water just stands on the surface and sits, even after hours. Not at all slippery. Epoxy was not an option, this still seems like a pretty good choice.
-Todzo
thegarageguy
Well-known member
I see these type of "sealers" applied in warehouses with foot traffic only and they still stain like crazy. In a garage, your first point of wear will be where the wheels roll in and out. I know it's cheap and maybe anyone can apply it but just understand what you are getting. This product will not resist oil or harsh chemicals like an epoxy-poly or polyaspartic, nor have the strength or durability these systems offer.
Just understand you are getting a dust proofer and thats about it. Its really a densifier or concrete hardener but you'll never realize the difference. Most people I know use it during their polishing process. If you decide to upgrade to a real system in the future, you may end up paying more, since the removal of it will take longer in order for any system to penetrate and anchor the concrete properly.
An acrylic sealer would be a much better choice but even that will eventually wear from the weight of the wheels.
Just understand you are getting a dust proofer and thats about it. Its really a densifier or concrete hardener but you'll never realize the difference. Most people I know use it during their polishing process. If you decide to upgrade to a real system in the future, you may end up paying more, since the removal of it will take longer in order for any system to penetrate and anchor the concrete properly.
An acrylic sealer would be a much better choice but even that will eventually wear from the weight of the wheels.
Walter
Active member
Read this thread from the beginning "thegarageguy". All of these points were discussed at length. What is your purpose for this last post? The wording you chose is negative and condescending. You are just another vendor trying to sell his warez. Vulture!