Best Tool For Screw Removal

[zendriver]

Worked on a problematic disc brake today, on a Kia Sedona, that uses two P3 tapered screws to hold the rotor in place.

pads down to the metal (and then some) so the rotor got plenty hot for sure with the usual corrosion.

The screws would not turn with a screwdriver, but I found a P3 3/8 bit that I put on the 1/2" impact. One loosened, but the other would not budge and was starting to distort. I tried to hit the backside with a torch briefly, but when I tried again the bit snapped off and tip stuck requiring chiseling and drilling to get out.

Anyway, if something like this happens again (why wouldn't it?), what is the best way to get them knocked loose?

Are there 1/2 Impact bits for this?

 

[cstmg8]

Not sure how it would hold up, but:

They definitely make 1/2" impact bit holders as well, may have more use for multiple bit options.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You need a manual/hand impact driver, and a hammer to whack it. Get the 1/2 drive lisle one.

 

[JRC3]

If they end up not coming out then drill off the head down to the hub and leave thee rest in place without replacing it. They often don't go back on the rotors anyways.

 

[ex-x-fire]

I heat the head, bolt gets slightly longer and usually turns out easy. Sometimes nothing helps.

 

[Machinitect]

You want the Wivco shake n break in your air hammer. They really work well.
Amazon or usually less expensive on ebay.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BHJ7JM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

They work even better in an aircraft style pneumatic rivet gun/ rivet hammer.

 

[ChefRex]

You used a air impact? A hand impact would be my weapon of choice.

 

[rlitman]

Definitely the hammer impact FTW.

 

[gizardlizard]

Machinitect has it. Shake and brake is the way to go. Old school impact drivers are ok but when there is rust involved, the shake and brakes excel.

 

[RKA]

Step 1: don’t put a cordless impact driver on it, you’ll likely break the bit in the screw - more work.

Heat/torch - hasn’t worked for me but I only have a propane torch.

Drilling off the screw head is easiest. Once the head of the screw is gone and the rotor is put, you’ll be able to put some pliers on what’s left of the screw and back it out. If you must get it off intact, manual impact driver will make quick work of it.

 

[plinker]

Usually the hand impact driver works for me, the shake & break air hammer bit also has it's place (mine has a wrench hex, no handle). Drilling out the head works if it's rounded.

IF you put them back in, use a good amount of antiseize and they really only need to be finger tight as they arent going to fall out with the wheel in place.

 

[M635_Guy]

Another vote for hand impact.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

with good screw bit

 

[richfinn]

Treat yourself to a Ko-Ken attack driver

 

[CoogarXR]

This is a dumb question... I've never used a hammer-impact. Do you turn them as you whack them? Or just whack them? How do they work?

 

[The Cobbler]

^^^ you turn it to change directions (tighten or loosen) then snug the tool in the direction you are going ( tighten or loosen) , whack with a hammer. it pushes down & twists in direction you set it for

 

[Machinitect]

Coogar, a hammer impact has an internal eccentric cam that locks either left or right. To loosen a mechanical fastener, you rotate the cam to turn upon impact in the desired direction. When you hit the end of the tool, the downward pressure engages the fastener and turns at the same time.

 

[iajonesy]

This is a dumb question... I've never used a hammer-impact. Do you turn them as you whack them? Or just whack them? How do they work?

Just whack them and the impact driver does the rest. They are designed to turn the fastener automatically.

Mike

 

[xOccupantx]

Mac has a manual impact driver on sale in their latest flyer.

 

[dogdog]

You need a manual/hand impact driver, and a hammer to whack it. Get the 1/2 drive lisle one.

^^^
This

 

[Felines4231]

Another vote for the hand impact driver. Put a bit of valve grinding compound on your bit, it helps them really stick and not slip in the fastener. Even with a regular screwdriver, valve grinding compound works great for any screw you’re worried about stripping.


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[joshmodelskidoo]

Those things are a great asset. Hardly used and well worth the $. Hf has them cheap but the bits ****. Lisle and tekton carry them, Also believe performance tool to. Im sure any autoparts store will have something. Probably even menards, lowes, ace ore any hardware store. I have paid anywhere from $5 to $20. I just upgraded a few months ago from the hf one.

 

[rlitman]

This is a dumb question... I've never used a hammer-impact. Do you turn them as you whack them? Or just whack them? How do they work?

^^^ you turn it to change directions (tighten or loosen) then snug the tool in the direction you are going ( tighten or loosen) , whack with a hammer. it pushes down & twists in direction you set it for

You get it, but for those who don't, I'll elaborate.

Imagine dropping a ball on a playground slide. It bounces off to the side, right?
That's kind of what happens with these hammer impacts. You strike the cap on top with a solid blow, and it bounces off of an inclined plane inside and rotates a little in one direction. But there's conservation of momentum to be upheld, so when the cap turns one way, the body must turn the other. It takes a good solid whack to slam the back cap into that inclined plane, because it's held back by a strong spring. I find that a 16oz hammer is the absolute minimum worth using, but it's really too light for this. 24-32oz is the sweet spot for my Vessel impact driver (not an Impacta screwdriver, which works fine with a lighter touch).

In a regular impact wrench/driver, the impact is purely in the direction of rotation, with no forward impact. In a shake-n-break, the impact is hammering directly along the axis of the screw, and rotation is handled by your wrench (but there's no impact in that direction.

With the hammer impact driver, the impact is both forward as well as rotational. It's really the best tool to remove these screws cleanly (drilling, being the other good option), since the forward impact not only loosens the screw, but prevents the bit from jumping.

Most of these drivers are reversible (the Impacta screwdriver being one exception). You push the back cap far enough, and you can turn it by hand to reverse the action. This sets the cap on the opposite side of the inclined plane, so it rotates the other way. One word of caution here is that I've often hit these hard enough to cause them to flip into reverse. That's fine, so long as you pay attention to it happening, and don't end up tightening the fastener with the next blow.

 

[CJM8515]

So FYI anything with those screws arent phillips. P3 does fit but isnt correct. you want a JIS screwdriver from vessel. will take them right off.



me, i just drill the heads out worst case and dump them. the screws do literally nothing but hold the rotors on at the factory

 

[CoogarXR]

Thanks for the explanation guys. Funny thing is, I own one, I've just never used it. I bought it sight-unseen about 25 years ago. I was buying a bunch of air tools from a store that was going out of business. There was a plain box marked 'impact screwdriver" and I thought it was an air powered driver. I opened it later and saw it was not, and it's been back in the box ever since.

Then, just last year, I thought I was buying some Vessel JIS bits for my 1/4" impact and when they showed up, they were big ol' bits for a hammer-impact. I have yet to see if they'll fit my old impact driver, but if they do, I'm accidentally all set, lol.

 

[JRC3]

Thanks for the explanation guys. Funny thing is, I own one, I've just never used it. I bought it sight-unseen about 25 years ago. I was buying a bunch of air tools from a store that was going out of business. There was a plain box marked 'impact screwdriver" and I thought it was an air powered driver. I opened it later and saw it was not, and it's been back in the box ever since.

Funny you say that; Last year a buddy asked me if I had one, I said nope...Then a month or so later I found one sitting in a bottom drawer I didn't even know I had. That's some TGJF sheet right thar. LOL

 

[zendriver]

I actually already had one as well but I could not get it to work. It was a “buffalo” brand and I had to think back but I think I bought it from homier tool 43 years ago. Made in Taiwan

I ran across a YouTube video that shows how to take them apart and lubricate with new grease, Which seems to fix a lot of money probably add if there’s simple mechanism.. I got a halfway apartment in tear some of the metal Edges had de forum inside so I just bailed on it. I was trying to remember what I was working on so hard to distorted but it didn’t have any good grease in it..

I just went ahead and ordered my very first “Tekton” tool hey 1/2 inch drive set. 20 bucks

I need something quick

Thanks everyone and I’ll post a picture of the Buffalo tonight



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[RKA]

Lol! This serves as confirmation to all the tool hoarders on this site. Once in a blue moon that habit pays!

 

[ZRX61]

My Talco brand hammer impact is about 40 years old. It's seen so much use the end is is mushroomed over. Got a feeling it will be seeing more work when I remove the clutch cover from my ZRX11 for the first time since I bought it on May 7th 1999, 119,008 miles ago. It usually gets clobbered with a 2lb lump hammer.

 

[demarpaint]

I use a hand impact driver, it that doesn't work I drill the head off the screw and remove the rotor. Usually at that point I can get the screw out, if not, no harm no foul. The screw is there to hold the rotor in place on the assembly line and is not needed.

 

[ZRX61]

I actually already had one as well but I could not get it to work. It was a “buffalo” brand and I had to think back but I think I bought it from homier tool 43 years ago. Made in Taiwan

Put the business end against something solid & push down on the impact by hand before you use it to make it's set to loosen, not tighten.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You need a manual/hand impact driver, and a hammer to whack it. Get the 1/2 drive lisle one.

Deluxe version Shake and Break



Note: this uses 5/16" bits

 

[theoldwizard1]

I use a hand impact driver, it that doesn't work I drill the head off the screw and remove the rotor.

Left hand drill bit.

 

[SeisMec]

Hammer impact and all of what rlitman said in post 23.

As Felines4231 said valve grinding compound if you've got it. Fine dirt and a drop of water if you don't.

When there are rusted threads --- if the screw doesn't start to loosen after 4-6 good smacks it is often useful to temporarily alternate with a couple "tightening" hammer blows followed by 4-6 more loosening blows. Reverse gets harder smacks than forward. Small pieces of rust breaks loose and can jam up the threads. Reversing direction helps to beak corners off the bits of rust jamming up the threads.

Never hurts to add another shot of the thinnest lubricant you can find now and then.

 

[setfocus]

For Torx and Allen I lightly use my cordless 3/8 impact wrench, if they don't come right out, I stop (before it strips or I break the bit) and hit them with map gas torch. If that doesn't work, I'll murder the screw out with an air hammer and pointy bit

For Phillips I use the hand impact driver so I don't instantly strip it. I choke all the way up on a sledge hammer and give it a couple of decent smacks. Stop before I twist or break the bit and from there I'll either rattle it with a "shake and break" type air hammer adapter and/or torch. Final option is back to murder it out with pointy air hammer bit

If I snap one, I just grind it flush with a die grinder

You don't really need those screws anyway, the rotor centers on the hub and is sandwiched by the wheel... but can be a pain when missing on lug bolt cars, as the rotor holes can misalign from the hub holes when the wheel is pulled off

 

[RTM]

I usually use my 2# plastic dead blow hammer to whack the impact, then step up to whatever I can swing op if that fails. Drilling hammer is usually next, then something breaks.

What is your choice for whacking the impact driver?

 

[mikeinri]

Getting ready to order a Lisle 1/2 inch.

Some negative comments on Amazon about the recent build quality, though, especially relating to the socket keeper ball (sometimes missing on arrival).

HD sells it for under $30, is it worth the risk? I'm not opposed to buying a better one, but the prices jump to around $100 or more. I haven't looked at used yet.

This is not a rush purchase for an imminent project, BTW.

Mike

 

[Toold_up]

Get rid of those junk P3 screws and replace them with hex or torx. Phillips was designed to cam out and strip. JIS are better, but still... no thank you!

 

[mikeinri]

Any chance I get, I go to hardened hex. Torx are just as likely to strip as Philips, and no easier to remove. At least with a hex head, you have something thicker to grab if it rounds off.

Mike

 

[Al Borland]

Avoid the Horrid Fright Hand Impacts. Aluminum body lacks mass/inertia for breaking screws loose. Get the Lisle or similar steel one (Like the stupid-thick Honda crank bolt sockets)