Best way to pressure test black pipe?

[tarbellb]

Im looking for a way to pressure test my black pipe line running from a tank to my Mr.Heater 45k unit?

I DID A SOAP TEST ALREADY.

How can I put pressure to my system without hooking up my tank? I lost 100lbs of propane over a week!

I do have a small pancake compressor? Any ideas how and what I could use to hook this up to the system? Do the heater and regulator have anything not rated for higher pressure ie 40, 60, 80 psi? Will I blow out a diaphragm?

Thanks for the help.

 

[ddookie]

if you know the system pressure you should go 1.5 times the working pressure and hold it at this pressure for approx 10 minutes, best with an inert gas such as Nitrogen , and use snoop or soapy water on all the joints a presence of bubbles would indicate leakage on the joint, hope this helps.

 

[b uddy555]

If you lost 100 lbs of propane you should have been able to detect that with a soap test.

Did you test all the joints? Did you test the joint inside the heater at the control valve?

 

[ddawg16]

Disconnect everthing from the pipe....as in heater and tank.

Cap one end....screw a 1/4 fitting on the other end so you can connect your air hose. Fill that baby fully of compressed air....140 PSI is no problem for black pipe.

Now do the soap test. If thats good....then install a ball valve and gauge on the hose end....fill her up and then close the ball valve.....you want the gauge on the pipe side. Let it sit a few days....it should not bleed down.

If all is well....then hook back up to your tank and heater....soap test those items.....

 

[acmikee]

valve off at the tank then on the other end add fittings to connect to your air compressor. pressurize to 100lbs and leak check with soap. should hold pressure overnite without any problems. to lose 100lbs in a week you should smell or hear it. does the tank have a hole or bad relief valve?

 

[Sureshot]

If you lost 100 lbs of propane you should have been able to detect that with a soap test.

Did you test all the joints? Did you test the joint inside the heater at the control valve?

Also check the vent hole on the regulator. That is alot to lose. I doubt you need air or any more pressure than you have.

Maybe slow down when looking for the bubbles?
I have found some ulta tiny leaks but you need to really watch and wait. That seems like a big leak.

 

[philjafo]

I have found pin holes in made in China or tiawan ftgs, not at the threads but in the side of the ftg.

 

[tarbellb]

Thanks guys! I didnt think about capping off the end where the heater unit is at. I will do this first to check for line leaks.

100lbs is ALOT to loose! I filled up my 100lbs tank right before the holiday week, everything seemed fine. I had a small leak right at the regulator to tank fitting but tightened it up.

I did several laps and re-soaped all my joints all the way from the tank to the OE heater fitting, found nothing?

So, question: whats the best method for attaching my 3/8" compressor hose to the black pipe?

 

[jhelrey]

Reducer... I would use either brass or copper. Hell, even PVC

 

[Mike007]

Wow, 100 lbs would have to be a large leak even over a week. I would think you would smell it.

 

[chevelle67]

Make sure your tstat isn't mounted on an outside 2x4 wall. Had a friend went through two 100 lb tanks in three weeks because he moved all the insulation aside to put a box in the exterior wall to put a stat in.

 

[trvshonda]

Go to menards and in the gas line section they have a gauge that you can thread straight onto your steel pipe and it has a air valve on it to allow you to put air in the system just like a tire. I just did all my steel line yesterday and put pressure to mine and it has held pressure. Mine lost 1 pound when i went out and checked it today but as it warmed up outside i gained my 1 pound back so now i will plumb it up to the tank and start up my new 80,000 btu mr. heater.

 

[tarbellb]

Make sure your tstat isn't mounted on an outside 2x4 wall. Had a friend went through two 100 lb tanks in three weeks because he moved all the insulation aside to put a box in the exterior wall to put a stat in.

No, no. Its mounted right where it should be, or where I think it should be. I dont think I wouldve lost that much gas heating over the week?

I did a "nose" test and soap test on all the joints and lines? Nothing seemed suspect? I agree that it seems that would be enough to smell. Im starting think that maybe my tank has a leak? or the valve? Which are both outside the shop. My propane source tells me they will pressure test it for free.

When you say " reducer", what do you mean? Im using 1/2"id black pipe, and have 3/8" hose, what kind of reducer am I looking for? does it couple with the std house couple, threaded, etc....?

We dont have Menards in Colorado... pics or a name of said fitting?

 

[regguy1]

I made a test jig with 1/2" pipe use a tee and stubs with caps, drill and tap for 1/8" pipe and install a valve and pressure gauge in each plug and use compressed air to pressurize . it should hold pressure, any loss will show up quickly. Do Not pressurize your gas valve it will damage it.

 

[kbs2244]

Are you sure the tank was not over filled and then you lost your 100lbs when the sun hit the tank?
After a day or so do you still have the loss?

 

[Sureshot]

It doesn't sound like you soap tested the tank valve or the connections to it.

To get air into it if needed use an air fitting for an air tool and adapt it to the pipe. Sounds like a 1/2" collar and 1/2"x1/4" bushing or if you can get it a 1/2"x1/4" bell reducer. Then simply hook up your compressor line. But I would just use the propane pressure and soap test everything.

 

[Norcal]

Buy a test gauge, cap off one end & put the test gauge on the other, they have a tire fitting to put air into the system & the test gauge is pretty cheap, should be less then $10.

For gas piping, it's a must IMO to test before putting into use & in most areas a inspection is required, some do not require inspections & anything goes like buried black pipe (not wrapped).

 

[jimp]

They have these at Home depot, $10.00 to 15.00.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00838J7WI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The pressure should not change for over an hour, if you wait for much longer temperature can have an effect on pressure.

 

[regguy1]

These would be easier than making your own

 

[tarbellb]

Jimp, thanks for the link! Thats exactly what I needed.

No pipe is buried, and I did soap test all the joints including the regulator to tank and OEM fitting to black pipe.

I did not test the regulator pressure release? I will try that once im able to source a gas pressure gauge.

 

[Smiliesafari]

In liquid measure that's 23 gallons. You should be able to smell that. Propane is extremely dangerous if not handled correctly. It's a heavier than air gas and will settle on the floor. If you have a gas water with a pilot light and the propane migrates to it your house will disappear in a ball of flame. Shut off the tank valve until you find the leak.

 

[tdkkart]

Your regulator is at the tank, so your line pressure between the regulator and heater is very low which makes soap testing harder. 100lbs of air pressure will make it much easier to find any leaks.

 

[tarbellb]

I went and got the exact part Jimp linked me to. Testing as we speak. Nothing like working on metal pipe in 20 degree weather. Im a wuss.

Thanks for the safety concerns all, im well aware of the dangers of propane. First thing i did was shut off the electrical and gas.

Mr.Heater owners- has anybody come across a leaky unit?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

From the earlier poster's 23 gallon math:

23 gallon X 92,000 BTU/Gallon divided by 45,000 BTU/Hr = 47 Hours run time.

47 hours/7 days X 24 hours/day = 28%

So...if your heater ran 28% of the time, you'd have gone through 23 gallons of propane.

I'm not saying you don't have a leak, because I personally haven't checked for a leak at your garage. I'm just saying that soap testing is a great way to find almost any sized leak (even those that can't be smelled) and any leak of consequence should be able to be smelled.

So...if you can't smell it, and you can't find it...that may mean your "leak" is your heater.

Just sayin.

Phil

 

[Steevo]

When I pressure tested my plumbing (prior to connecting to MrHeater), I couldn't figure out where I was losing 1~2 psi/day. I'd pump it up to 15#, shut off the valve where I had the air fitting, and watch the gauge for a day or two, and even accounting for cold/heat fluctuations of day/night, it would drop 1~2 psi/day. I soaped every connection, and watched them for any bubble at all.

Finally, I determined that the only place pressure could be escaping my piping was through my gauge!
I picked up a new gauge, removed the old one, teflon taped the fitting on the new one, and screwed it into place, aired up the system, and waited. And waited. Three days later, it hadn't lost a psi.

Damned cheapo gauge had a leak.

 

[tarbellb]

From the earlier poster's 23 gallon math:

23 gallon X 92,000 BTU/Gallon divided by 45,000 BTU/Hr = 47 Hours run time.

47 hours/7 days X 24 hours/day = 28%

So...if your heater ran 28% of the time, you'd have gone through 23 gallons of propane.

So...if you can't smell it, and you can't find it...that may mean your "leak" is your heater.

This is a excellent point Hoosier! I was gone for about a week, the temps did drop while I was gone. And this is my first tank.

Im testing still. Noted the cheap pressure gauge leaking, will check that as well. We will see what happens.

I just figured from others notes that a 100lb tank with sufficient insulation should last me much longer then a week?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

This is a excellent point Hoosier! I was gone for about a week, the temps did drop while I was gone. And this is my first tank.

Im testing still. Noted the cheap pressure gauge leaking, will check that as well. We will see what happens.

I just figured from others notes that a 100lb tank with sufficient insulation should last me much longer then a week?

At work, I get calls regarding "my gas usage is higher than I expected so I must have a leak". In 20 years of checking these out, I don't recall there was ever one that actually was a leak.

Even very small leaks should be detectable by odor...which is what happens. People smell gas and call in leaks. More than 90% of the people that call in saying they smell gas have a gas leak. Roughly 0% of those that say their bill is too high, but they haven't smelled anything unusual, have a leak.

Again, that doesn't mean you couldn't have a leak. If you do though, you should be able to smell it...and certainly it should show up on a soap test if you know what you're doing. (For instance, you're using "leak detection solution" not actual dish soap?)

Phil

 

[tarbellb]

Sounds like you know what your talking about. Experience is priceless.
I did end up buying one of those pressure testing units and I do indeed have a leak. I am losing about 1-2 psi every 30 min. So now I need to locate the leak, problem is I AM USING SOAPY water.

Where do you pick up testing solution?

 

[ddawg16]

Soapy water?

Get a spray bottle.....I find the cheap liquid dish detergents work best....put about 1/2 of detergent at the bottom of the spray bottle....then fill about 3/4 with water. Your solution will be REAL soapy....

Make sure the spray bottle gives you a fine water spray....

Go have fun.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

They sell leak test solution at the Box stores (HD, Lowes, etc.)

I have used dishwashing soap at home, when I didn't have access to the real deal...and I was amazed to discover that it really doesn't work as well. I missed a couple of leaks I ended up finding later with Leak Seek. I can't explain why. But since then I've sworn off Dawn.

Phil

 

[ponjohn]

In for solution. Thanks.

 

[tarbellb]

UPDATE:!

So it turns out that I had 2 leaks! What happened is I accidentally spun the manufactures 6" extension pipe that resides inside the heater when connecting my black pipe to it. Classic case of not using the right (or enough) tools and learning from your first time installing gas pipe.
If I had used two wrenches when tightening the pipe then I wouldnt have spun the heater tube and cracked the white seal.
Also, somewhere along my line I had a much smaller leak, so had to disassemble half my run and rebuild. Not bad considering it was only 3 joints.

So lesson learned and a good thing for Mr.Heater owners to watch and check for.

The 6" or so black pipe that extends to out of the box that you run your own line to can spin and break the white seal that mfg applies. Be careful, use two wrenches and stay warm.

Thanks GJ!