best way to remove polyspartic coating?

[Dave-H]

Hi all -

Last fall I had my garage floor done with a polyspartic coating. It looks great, with a nice granite appearance. The problem is, we have an odor problem and after quite a bit of testing it appears that the VOCs (mostly Xylene) are coming from the floor.

A few bits of info:

- No, it's not possible to know for sure that it's the floor causing the off-gassing. The only way is to remove the floor and see if it mitigates the odor.

- Yes, I've had professional air testing and consultation and they suspect the floor is causing the odor. Their recommendation is to remove the floor.

Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to remove the floor. The contractor has offered to come out and simply grind it off. I really worry about this because it could distribute dust/debris all over the place, and I also worry that it could somehow get the off-gassing substances pushed further into the concrete, etc.

Does anyone have any experience with removing polyspartic coatings, with solvents/strippers/grinding/blasting, etc? I have a call in to the manufacturer but haven't heard back yet.

thanks!

 

[Shea]

Grinding is the way to remove the coating. If you are worried about solvents, chemical stripping will just introduce more. Check with the contractor to verify they are using a vacuum system when grinding. While not completely dustless, a proper vacuum system produces only a small amount of dust. These type of systems are very common for floor coating contractors that grind indoors. I've never before heard of off gassing getting pushed into concrete from grinding. Even if it could happen, the open pores of the concrete that are created from the grinding would allow any off gassing, vapors, and etc to escape out of the concrete.

 

[Radix2]

If you are at this point, Have you tried scraping up a small area of coating and putting it in a clean sealed container to see if the smell follows (or test it) ?

A narrow sharp chisel can pull up any coating.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

A conscientious contractor with a proper diamond grinder using PCD tooling and a good vac system can remove the material with minimal issue.

As Shea mentioned the solvents required to even soften this slightly would be a haz-mat nightmare. If you can't find a good contractor look under "blasters" in the yellow pages.

 

[James-W]

What are you planning on doing to the floor once you get the old coating removed?

 

[lakeroadster]

Dave-H, who did the original coating application?

Floor coating guru's... is the off-gasing issue Dave-H is having with his floor typical with floor coatings, a issue just with polyspartic coatings, or a symptom of a bad installation.

 

[Dave-H]

If you are at this point, Have you tried scraping up a small area of coating and putting it in a clean sealed container to see if the smell follows (or test it) ?

Yes, I have a mason jar of scraped up flooring (about 2 sq inches) and if you put your nose in there, it has a sort of sweet and solvent smell. No formal testing as that's getting expensive now.

What are you planning on doing to the floor once you get the old coating removed?

That seems about 1000 years into the future, as I've been dealing with this odor now for almost a year. Once the floor is gone, I'm going to vent the room aggressively until the smells are gone and my little consumer grade VOC detector isn't reading anything unusual.

At that point, I'm going to have an ugly floor to deal with. Truth be told, I'd just love to have the exact same appearance and style of floor. I'm very happy with it. But, having the identical product reinstalled seems like a dumb move.

Or maybe not - there is evidence that the cold weather install is causing the odor. For example, two floor samples from different places had different results - near the warmer part of the room, no odor. Near the garage door floor that was left open in 20 degree winter weather, it stinks.

I just don't know what to do now but getting rid of the source is my current focus.

A conscientious contractor with a proper diamond grinder using PCD tooling and a good vac system can remove the material with minimal issue.

As Shea mentioned the solvents required to even soften this slightly would be a haz-mat nightmare. If you can't find a good contractor look under "blasters" in the yellow pages.

Ok, you are now the 3rd person said the same thing so I'm inclined to have them grind it off. It does seem like a reasonable precaution to put plastic sheeting on a lot of surfaces, though. I have a lot of sound baffles and foam features that are porous and absorbent.

 

[Dave-H]

Dave-H, who did the original coating application?

Floor coating guru's... is the off-gasing issue Dave-H is having with his floor typical with floor coatings, a issue just with polyspartic coatings, or a symptom of a bad installation.

The contractor who did the job has been very resistant to the idea that he is responsible for any of this, but has also agreed to remove the floor and has been sluggish but responsive to me in general.

So, I'm not inclined to share his identity until everything is done and I know whether he came through on removal and reimbursement or not. As a business owner myself, I want to give him a chance to do the right thing.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Dave-H, who did the original coating application?



Floor coating guru's... is the off-gasing issue Dave-H is having with his floor typical with floor coatings, a issue just with polyspartic coatings, or a symptom of a bad installation.

IMO this is a freak/unusual situation. Our install team uses Polyaspartic topcoats on every garage floor completed. There is a light smell but dissipates quickly. No complaints.

The cold temps coupled with a mix error could be to blame.





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[lakeroadster]

Thanks Dave-H and Legacy..

 

[Dave-H]

If you are at this point, Have you tried scraping up a small area of coating and putting it in a clean sealed container to see if the smell follows (or test it) ?

A narrow sharp chisel can pull up any coating.

By the way, I did a very amateur series of tests using some very amateur equipment, and it definitely added to my confidence that the floor is causing the odor.

You can see my attempt to DIY the test here:

 

[Radix2]

By the way, I did a very amateur series of tests using some very amateur equipment, and it definitely added to my confidence that the floor is causing the odor.

You can see my attempt to DIY the test here:

That looks pretty convincing to me too!

Only thing amature about that is you aren't getting paid

For the sticklers, I suppose you could have put the jar in empty in case the rubber seal was wonky, but I doubt it.

Good luck on getting this resolved

 

[Dave-H]

Good point about the rubber seal, I didn't think of that!

That little jar is at least 8 years old and has been left open for a long time (i.e. 2 or 3 years) before I washed it and used in the test. So, hopefully it wasn't offgassing at all.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Agree, grind it off, make sure whoever does it uses the proper vac with hepa filters.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Just a thought but how about super heating the space with either 1500w halogen lights close to the surface or propane heaters. My thinking is higher heat might cure out some of the smell.

 

[mainered]

Polyaspartic is a humidity cure product and the colder the ambient temperature the slower the cure due to the amount of moisture cold air can handle. My guess would be that the areas in question are possible to thick and the top layer skinned over before the underlying material had time to cure. The other question I would ask is just the clear coat an aspartic or the whole system. Most times the first coat or color coat is an epoxy. If this is the case, the applicator can grind down the clear and reapply.
If you are dead set to remove the coating the only option you have is to have the material removed by grinding which with the proper vacuum system. The dust is minimal. with the exception of the edge grinding.

 

[mainered]

Heating the areas in question could work for sure. And its not the xylene you are smelling. Xylene is only used to extend the pot life and normally flashes of quickly

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Polyaspartic is a humidity cure product and the colder the ambient temperature the slower the cure due to the amount of moisture cold air can handle. My guess would be that the areas in question are possible to thick and the top layer skinned over before the underlying material had time to cure. The other question I would ask is just the clear coat an aspartic or the whole system. Most times the first coat or color coat is an epoxy. If this is the case, the applicator can grind down the clear and reapply.

If you are dead set to remove the coating the only option you have is to have the material removed by grinding which with the proper vacuum system. The dust is minimal. with the exception of the edge grinding.

If he did this in the 20s and 30s, it's likely pap all the way through and I am with you, it's partially cured.


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[Dave-H]

Just a thought but how about super heating the space with either 1500w halogen lights close to the surface or propane heaters. My thinking is higher heat might cure out some of the smell.

It's been 9 months and I've heated up the room for long periods of that. So, baking-off the fumes doesn't seem to be working and I'm pretty much decided to remove the floor and move on.

Heating the areas in question could work for sure. And its not the xylene you are smelling. Xylene is only used to extend the pot life and normally flashes of quickly

That may be, but a certified lab has found that the primary VOC that they find in very high levels in the room is Xylene. So, while we don't know that the floor is the source of the odor, we do know that the odor is caused by Xylene for sure.

The smell of the Xelene is distinctive and if you chip off a piece of the floor and put it to your nose, you'll immediately get that same odor.

 

[Dave-H]

Room has been draped/covered with plastic on all walls/ceiling, and the original installer is due to come by tomorrow and remove the floor. They don't seem to be taking this very seriously and say that they'll come by after all the other jobs are done tomorrow.

I, however, really want every last speck of this stuff removed to ensure that the odor is gone. That means hand-grinding it off of the stem walls, and into the crack between the bottom of the dry wall and the top of the stem wall. That's gonna take some time.

If they don't do a good job, I've already got another company lined up to install a new floor and they'll re-remove the odorous floor if need be.

 

[Dave-H]

Update on this, if anyone is interested:

The original installer made two attempts to remove the floor, both of which were pretty unimpressive. I did get them to hit the stem walls well with a hand grinder, so most of that was removed. They got frustrated and abandoned the job.

Meanwhile, I brought back an installer who originally bid the job to have another look. They pointed out a few things that were wrong with the floor, and showed me how the previous team was clearly using the wrong grinder heads to remove the floor. They came by yesterday with the proper gear and had the bulk of the floor removed in around 2 hours. They will apply a 100% solids epoxy floor with a clear coat of polyaspartic in about two weeks.



Now I need to finish removing all the leftover floor from before, and take down all the plastic sheeting I put up (thank god I did!). I am using a product called Citristrip to remove the leftover floor in the inside corners and cracks, etc. So far so good.

Once all the coating is gone (or at least, 99% of it), I plan to hose down the floor and get as much dust as possible off of it, and ventilate the room. I have 5 windows plus can leave the garage door cracked open on the bottom so even without fans it should ventilate nicely.

Then the moment of truth - will the smell really be gone?? Right now the smell is still there but there is a lot of dust around and little areas of the floor that need touch-up. Seems much reduced, though, so I'm hopeful.

 

[DSA87GN]

So Dave, did you get a new floor in ? Smells gone ?

 

[Dave-H]

Final update:

The original installer sent me a refund check, and I am about to send them a huge bill for all the expenses I've incurred. We'll probably wind up in small claims court, which i'm sort of looking forward to.

Here's what happened:

The new team removed the floor, but in doing so they produced a ton of dust and the whole placed reeked of xylene. It was hard to tell if it was from the dust in the air, the dust on surfaces around the room, or dust that was ground into the floor. The grinders work well but they do tend to push tiny bits of dust into the newly polished floor.

I decided the only way forward was to push on, so I worked for hours on the stem walls and the concrete joints with an angle grinder. The xylene smell was ******** whenever I was getting little bits out. Then I used a heavy solvent to dissolve the leftover floor in the little crack beneath the drywall, between the wall and the top of the stem wall. It was a deep crack, so that was a stinky mess.

After that, the whole place smelled like solvents, dust, and xylene but I was pretty sure I got it all. I broke out the pressure washer and hit the floors, the walls (painted drywall!) , and the plastic sheeting over the ceiling and other gear. I spent a long time just washing the place with water.

Then I let it ventilate. Over a period of about 3 days it went from smelling like solvents and xylene, to smelling like wet concrete, and finally smelling like.. nothing!! The smell was gone!

The new team came and poured a new floor. It looks nearly identical. For about 12 hours it smelled a bit, and i started to stress, but by the next day it was zero smell. My little VOC detector says there are no VOCs floating around in there!

I repainted, reinstalled the moulding, fixed up a window sill that I trashed with the pressure washer, and called the movers to bring in my office furniture. I'm happy to announce that the whole situation is resolved.

Total damage was around $5,000 - moving, storage, paint, floor removal, solvents, moulding removal and replacement, and air quality engineering testing (the big expense).

Lesson learned: follow the instructions! Don't lay the new floor when it's 22 degrees if the instructions say minimum floor temp is 50. And, if you are going to pour it on a cold floor, don't want 30 minutes and lay another layer!

 

[Shea]

Wow! Glad to see you finally resolved the problem.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Wow, what a saga! Glad resolved...

 

[AP514]

Too bad the Installers did not have a clue on how to do the Job correctly or maybe they did...Just wanted the money.

Really happy you got it figured out....

Makes me think twice/3 times about having my 1,600 sq. Garage done.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Yes, this is the lesson here, best not to do a coating unless the temperatures are within range. We do offer low temp coatings which can cure down to zero, but warmer is better as a general rule of thumb.

 

[Dave-H]

Final update: filed a small claims case against the contractor. His insurance company settled for the full amount of around 6k in damages.

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[LegacyIndustrial]

Take aways...

Be careful of temps

Be sure your coating is cured before adding another

Mix properly

Ventilate properly when working with solvent based products


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[sdscottsdalelmt]

Final update:

The original installer sent me a refund check, and I am about to send them a huge bill for all the expenses I've incurred. We'll probably wind up in small claims court, which i'm sort of looking forward to.

Here's what happened:

The new team removed the floor, but in doing so they produced a ton of dust and the whole placed reeked of xylene. It was hard to tell if it was from the dust in the air, the dust on surfaces around the room, or dust that was ground into the floor. The grinders work well but they do tend to push tiny bits of dust into the newly polished floor.

I decided the only way forward was to push on, so I worked for hours on the stem walls and the concrete joints with an angle grinder. The xylene smell was ******** whenever I was getting little bits out. Then I used a heavy solvent to dissolve the leftover floor in the little crack beneath the drywall, between the wall and the top of the stem wall. It was a deep crack, so that was a stinky mess.

After that, the whole place smelled like solvents, dust, and xylene but I was pretty sure I got it all. I broke out the pressure washer and hit the floors, the walls (painted drywall!) , and the plastic sheeting over the ceiling and other gear. I spent a long time just washing the place with water.

Then I let it ventilate. Over a period of about 3 days it went from smelling like solvents and xylene, to smelling like wet concrete, and finally smelling like.. nothing!! The smell was gone!

The new team came and poured a new floor. It looks nearly identical. For about 12 hours it smelled a bit, and i started to stress, but by the next day it was zero smell. My little VOC detector says there are no VOCs floating around in there!

I repainted, reinstalled the moulding, fixed up a window sill that I trashed with the pressure washer, and called the movers to bring in my office furniture. I'm happy to announce that the whole situation is resolved.

Total damage was around $5,000 - moving, storage, paint, floor removal, solvents, moulding removal and replacement, and air quality engineering testing (the big expense).

Lesson learned: follow the instructions! Don't lay the new floor when it's 22 degrees if the instructions say minimum floor temp is 50. And, if you are going to pour it on a cold floor, don't want 30 minutes and lay another layer!

Take aways...

Be careful of temps

Be sure your coating is cured before adding another

Mix properly

Ventilate properly when working with solvent based products


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dave, I have had a similar issue and posted here about it. You are saying you used a solvent around the base walls? Was it the denatured alcohol? My issue has been going on for four months now. Same with chemical testing show high levels of xylene, benzene and alcohol. The vendor takes no responsibility. I’m 8hours into grinding the product out myself but am realizing the grinder and blade selection is important. I’m determined to get this fixed! Thank you for sharing.