Hello I am new on here my name is Kayla. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to dampen sound or sound proof between floors. We live in a bungalow and have a basement apartment with tenants. They/ the girlfriend keeps complaining about our dogs being loud when they play in the living room. We tried putting foam under the rug in there but that didn't help apparently. I would like our dogs to be able to be dogs and not just have to sit still all day and night unless they are outside, especially since one is only 5 months old. Thanks for any suggestions.
Between floors soundproof
- Thread starter Kayla
- Start date
rlitman
Well-known member
The term soundproof is as silly as waterproof. One day it's going to bite someone. I just finished renovating a basement apartment of mine, and did a lot to reduce noise transmission through my floor to it. The difference is pretty significant, but with good ears, you can still hear my cats walking on the floor above. My point is, there is no way to completely stop sound. At best, you can reduce it. But saying that foam under the carpet "didn't help" is an indication to me that your tenant may be expecting unreasonable results.
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
It would take a considerable amount of effort to reduce sound transmission effectively.
Much depends on the construction methods used and would mean tearing off the ceiling below (be it sheet rock or plaster) filling the space with mineral wool insulation. Then applying RC channel perpendicular to the joists and hanging new sheetrock. You might have to use multiple layers with "green glue" in between.
You also have to be very detailed in sealing openings around electrical boxes and if any ductwork passes through that space it makes matters worse.
Even with these extraordinary efforts, noise will still get through.
You might want to research sound deadening techniques on home theater forums for additional information.
It might be cheaper to put down more carpet with heavy padding, buy soft boots for your dogs, play with them outside or get new tenants.
Much depends on the construction methods used and would mean tearing off the ceiling below (be it sheet rock or plaster) filling the space with mineral wool insulation. Then applying RC channel perpendicular to the joists and hanging new sheetrock. You might have to use multiple layers with "green glue" in between.
You also have to be very detailed in sealing openings around electrical boxes and if any ductwork passes through that space it makes matters worse.
Even with these extraordinary efforts, noise will still get through.
You might want to research sound deadening techniques on home theater forums for additional information.
It might be cheaper to put down more carpet with heavy padding, buy soft boots for your dogs, play with them outside or get new tenants.
Bluedodge
Well-known member
If you have access to the floor joists via a drop ceiling, Owens Corning makes insulation designed for sound deadening between floors. Home Depot, Lowes, Menards all carry it and/or can order it for you.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-C...ion-Batt-15-in-x-93-in-10-Bags-QF01/205471568
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-C...ion-Batt-15-in-x-93-in-10-Bags-QF01/205471568
kj_mustang
Well-known member
Foam insulation attached to the floor joists and then the sheetrock will help decouple the sound transmission from the floor through the basement ceiling. There are several acoustic construction products that you can try but you will have to spend mucho bucks and still not soundproof it.
rlitman
Well-known member
I ripped down my drop ceiling, and applied spray foam in between every single gap in the subfloor. Added more mechanical fasteners to every floor joist, and sistered any areas that had cracks around knots.
I then put two layers of Roxul Safe-n-sound (this has a higher density than typical insulating rock wool, so it is better at sound isolation) between the 2x10 floor joists, put a strip of sound isolation foam tape on the underside of every joist, and hung 5/8 sheetrock. The difference from before is palpable, but yes, you can still hear my cats walking around if you have good ears and if the background noise is low enough. But that's just the nature of sound.
rlitman
Well-known member
You want something that decouples the two parallel surfaces. In my case, I had hardwood that was not being lifted. But yeah, a floating floor on a padding layer will certainly help, if lifting the floor is easier than replacing the ceiling.
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
Exactly. Ideally you want multiple layers of different densities. Padding used for floating floors is one example. Some people have used Homosote as an intermediate layer. There are other products such as Serena: https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/product/serena-underlay-tested-soundproof-floors/
The most straightforward method is using green glue to decouple layers of subfloor:
The best way would be to build a structure with decoupling in mind, but that is very costly to do as a retrofit. Various schemes exist, but the concept is the same. Alternated densities of material, use a product for mechanical decoupling (green glue, a mat, RC channel):
You have to be very thorough, as noise can be transmitted easily through other structural and mechanical elements in a building. Partition walls can be built with staggered studs - you could do the same with floor / ceiling joists with a big enough budget.
They even produce a gypsum board product with a decoupling membrane called QuietRock: https://www.quietrock.com/products
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The only way you are going to significantly reduce the noise is to pull down the ceiling and install insulation. The best sound deadening insulation is probably Rockwool Safe'n'Sound.
James-W
Well-known member
Frst of all, welcome to the forum.
I doubt there is anything you can do to solve this problem with the tenants. I am sure the things mentioned above will all help to a degree, but I am also sure it won't solve the problem. I just don't think the tenants will be happy with the situation regardless of what you do.
I doubt there is anything you can do to solve this problem with the tenants. I am sure the things mentioned above will all help to a degree, but I am also sure it won't solve the problem. I just don't think the tenants will be happy with the situation regardless of what you do.
ard
Well-known member
Agree. You can spend $10-15k on re-engineering that floor and the ceiling below to get something approaching soundproof. But there is no simple, cheap fix. Actually there isnt even a 'medium cost' solution. IMO
This alone will do surprisingly little. The joists transmit sound vibrations to the ceiling of the basement which acts like a speaker cone or a drum head.
The above solutions that speak of 'decoupling' can be very effective, but not 'soundproof'.
I agree with those who suggest your tenant might have unrealistic expectations.
Last edited:
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
Perhaps reduce their rent a bit in an effort to placate them.
Or better yet - raise the rent to get them to move.
Radix2
Well-known member
I'd be a little less negative than the above depending on where you are starting from.
If you have hard floors above fastened directly to the floor joists, no insulation and a ceiling fastened directly to the floor joists ( standard interior construction), then I think you can improve it quite a bit.
Full carpet upstairs. Remove ceiling, insulate, re-drywall with resilient channels or acoustic panels.
Soundproof? No, but certainly softer and more muffled than a hard connection that brings every claw clack right down.
If you have hard floors above fastened directly to the floor joists, no insulation and a ceiling fastened directly to the floor joists ( standard interior construction), then I think you can improve it quite a bit.
Full carpet upstairs. Remove ceiling, insulate, re-drywall with resilient channels or acoustic panels.
Soundproof? No, but certainly softer and more muffled than a hard connection that brings every claw clack right down.
gnpenning
Well-known member
Welcome.
ROI is something you need to consider. Noise reduction can be very expensive and will be very inconvenient trying to live around the construction process. The end result as mentioned may still not be enough to satisfy your renter. Weather you do the work or having to pay someone it will still be expensive. How long will the rent take to cover the expense and still create income for you? Will the current rent account for the sound deading?
I appreciate the fact you are trying to help your renter, but will it pencil out for you?
Good luck with what ever you choose to do.
ROI is something you need to consider. Noise reduction can be very expensive and will be very inconvenient trying to live around the construction process. The end result as mentioned may still not be enough to satisfy your renter. Weather you do the work or having to pay someone it will still be expensive. How long will the rent take to cover the expense and still create income for you? Will the current rent account for the sound deading?
I appreciate the fact you are trying to help your renter, but will it pencil out for you?
Good luck with what ever you choose to do.
Viper98912
Well-known member
You will need to invest significantly in time, money, and effort to get anything to work well. Tell them that you will try to "keep it down", but for the most part if they don't like it, then tell them to submit their letter to break the lease. If you have terms that they cannot break the lease due to certain length of time (months) restrictions, then waive the terms.
For the next renter, I recommend that you let them hear your dogs first before they sign.
Rental income is nice, but having to deal with people just stinks. I prefer my own privacy to do whatever I want to do. Only the gf needs to put up with it
For the next renter, I recommend that you let them hear your dogs first before they sign.
Rental income is nice, but having to deal with people just stinks. I prefer my own privacy to do whatever I want to do. Only the gf needs to put up with it
Exactly. Ideally you want multiple layers of different densities. Padding used for floating floors is one example. Some people have used Homosote as an intermediate layer. There are other products such as Serena: https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/product/serena-underlay-tested-soundproof-floors/
The most straightforward method is using green glue to decouple layers of subfloor:
The best way would be to build a structure with decoupling in mind, but that is very costly to do as a retrofit. Various schemes exist, but the concept is the same. Alternated densities of material, use a product for mechanical decoupling (green glue, a mat, RC channel):
You have to be very thorough, as noise can be transmitted easily through other structural and mechanical elements in a building. Partition walls can be built with staggered studs - you could do the same with floor / ceiling joists with a big enough budget.
They even produce a gypsum board product with a decoupling membrane called QuietRock: https://www.quietrock.com/products
No price and no body sells it... it does sound good on all the reports on their website...
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
Green Glue? You can get it on Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/Case-Green-Glue-Noiseproofing-Compound/dp/B000SKWD8Y/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1540233746&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=green+glue&psc=1&smid=A2LXBKOLL3J3K6
Or here: https://isostore.com/product-catalog.html#green-glue-compound
Menard's and Lowes both carry it it as well
If you are talking about Quietrock, Lowes can order it and you can use their dealer locator: https://www.quietrock.com/dealer-locator There are 14 dealers within an 60 minute drive of here.
Don't want to use Quietrock - make your own using gypsum board sandwiching a layer of homosote.
Or here: https://isostore.com/product-catalog.html#green-glue-compound
Menard's and Lowes both carry it it as well
If you are talking about Quietrock, Lowes can order it and you can use their dealer locator: https://www.quietrock.com/dealer-locator There are 14 dealers within an 60 minute drive of here.
Don't want to use Quietrock - make your own using gypsum board sandwiching a layer of homosote.
Gray, good call on the quietrock - I was doing a consult on an owner-built studio (new house build, HOA just outside of Phoenix) and the owner asked about quietrock - At that time, 5/8 sheet rock was @ $8 a sheet, quietrock was over $40 - so he stayed with my recommendation of 2 layers 5/8 rock and green glue, full double framed with 12" air gap, lightly compressed un-faced fiberglass (NOT the compressed 3 PCF, just 2 layers of R23) - I had his contractor double coat the outer stucco walls.
End result: the "evil HOA people" wouldn't believe his band was playing in the studio til he opened the door(s)... Steve
End result: the "evil HOA people" wouldn't believe his band was playing in the studio til he opened the door(s)... Steve
rayra
Well-known member
The easiest and least expensive solution is to not renew their lease. You've already done the reasonable thing. Anything else is economically unreasonable.
Just be sure your next tenants are aware of the dogs and the noise potential.
The next least expensive option is to determine what if any insulation is in that floor / ceiling space and possibly injecting some low-expansion foam into the voids thru many small holes in the downstairs ceiling. And even that won't stop sound transmission thru the joists. It will only muffle ambient noise form above, not the clatter of toenails or jumping around.
And even that will cost a couple hundred dollars and several days' disruption to you and your tenants.
Just be sure your next tenants are aware of the dogs and the noise potential.
The next least expensive option is to determine what if any insulation is in that floor / ceiling space and possibly injecting some low-expansion foam into the voids thru many small holes in the downstairs ceiling. And even that won't stop sound transmission thru the joists. It will only muffle ambient noise form above, not the clatter of toenails or jumping around.
And even that will cost a couple hundred dollars and several days' disruption to you and your tenants.
Last edited:
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
Here is a link with a phone number:
https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/product-category/soundproofing-products/serenity-mat-flooring-underlay/
That page also has a link titled "contact" if you click there you can submit your query using a web form if you don't want to talk to someone.
Chris4x4Gill2
Well-known member
White noise machine for downstairs?
A while back I helped a buddy do this. He already had insulation in his floors.
In his basement we another layer of sheetrock to the ceiling with green glue in between it. Then another layer of sheetrock with mass loaded vinyl in between it. He had 8 ft ceilings in the basement so height wasnt a big deal.
It made a huge difference but wasn't cheap or easy to do
His eventual plan was to do more on the upstairs side of things when he got the chance.
The reason he did this was his renters paid enough to cover his entire mortgage but he hated having to be quiet. So in between renters we did all this. He could watch a movie upstairs at a reasonable volume level
( nice home theatre setup) and have no complaints.
I don't recollect the total cost but the mass loaded vinyl was a couple grand or more by itself
In his basement we another layer of sheetrock to the ceiling with green glue in between it. Then another layer of sheetrock with mass loaded vinyl in between it. He had 8 ft ceilings in the basement so height wasnt a big deal.
It made a huge difference but wasn't cheap or easy to do
His eventual plan was to do more on the upstairs side of things when he got the chance.
The reason he did this was his renters paid enough to cover his entire mortgage but he hated having to be quiet. So in between renters we did all this. He could watch a movie upstairs at a reasonable volume level
( nice home theatre setup) and have no complaints.
I don't recollect the total cost but the mass loaded vinyl was a couple grand or more by itself
rlitman
Well-known member
I just bought a roll of MLV on Amazon. IIRC, it was almost $2/sq-ft for 1lb/sq-ft. Two layers of Roxul Safe-N-Sound gave me a higher weight at a lower cost per square foot, but I had some places where I needed a thinner barrier.