Big Mistake?

[Durasmack]

My concrete guy may have installed the wrong Pex tubing....
He put in tubing that does not have an oxygen barrier.
Tubing is Sioux Chief PowerPEX 665XA.
I now know it is not the 100% correct tubing to use for radiant heat setups per my HVAC guy, but can it be used?

Below is what i copied off the Sioux Chief website.
*****************************************
PEX TUBE
664X, 665X, 664XA & 665XA SERIES PowerPEX® SPECIFICATION
Sioux Chief PowerPEX crosslinked polyethylene tubing shall be used in hot and cold potable water distribution or for approved non-potable system applications. PowerPEX tubing is for residential, commercial or industrial facilities. PowerPEX tubing is offered as Type-B tubing for 1⁄2", 3⁄4", 1" and 11⁄4" tubing. PowerPEX tubing is offered as Type-A tubing for 11⁄2" and 2" tubing. Tubing is copper tube sized (CTS) SDR-9 tube made to ASTM F876 and ASTM F877 standards for use with ASTM approved connection systems.
MATERIALS
Type-B PEX (Silane Graft Process): 1⁄2", 3⁄4", 1", 11⁄4" tube Type-A PEX (Engel Process): 11⁄2" & 2" tube
APPLICATIONS
Plumbing, Radiant, Fire Suppression, Geothermal, Water Reclamation, Turf Conditioning, Irrigation
*******************************

Says its good for Plumbing, Radiant, etc.....
Please help!

 

[ctfjr]

The last resort, if you have anything ferrous in the heating loop (like the boiler), would be to use a heat exchanger between this pipe & the heating source. Everything located on the pex loop must be non-ferrous, like stainless circs, bronze valves, etc.

 

[Durasmack]

Thanks so much for the reply!
How will the heat exchanger help? Or will that be a / the sacrificial element?

 

[ctfjr]

The exchanger is typically stainless steel so it will be unaffected by any O2 in the water on the pex side. The other side is completely isolated from your heating source.

This may all be moot if your heat source is non-ferrous - like an aluminum or stainless boiler, but all the components in the system need to be non-ferrous.

 

[BillK]

APPLICATIONS
........ Radiant .............,

It says that one of the applications is "radiant" ??? What is the problem ? If you are not 100% sure, why not call the people who can tell you for sure .... the manufacturer ?? Everyone here, including me, is just guessing unless we work for the people that make the tubing and know for sure.

 

[pstnbly]

It says that one of the applications is "radiant" ??? What is the problem ? If you are not 100% sure, why not call the people who can tell you for sure .... the manufacturer ?? Everyone here, including me, is just guessing unless we work for the people that make the tubing and know for sure.

Read it again, that's the B pex, he has A

 

[Durasmack]

It says that one of the applications is "radiant" ??? What is the problem ? If you are not 100% sure, why not call the people who can tell you for sure .... the manufacturer ?? Everyone here, including me, is just guessing unless we work for the people that make the tubing and know for sure.

I did call the manufacturer, right before i posted here........ they aren't open on Saturday which is when I learned of the potential problem. Why you gotta be all that? isn't this forum about helping others? Sorry i'm bothering you.
Just looking for helpful advice friend..... thinking some kind soul on here might have run into the same problem.... i'm sure i'm not the only one who's ran into this.

 

[Durasmack]

The exchanger is typically stainless steel so it will be unaffected by any O2 in the water on the pex side. The other side is completely isolated from your heating source.

This may all be moot if your heat source is non-ferrous - like an aluminum or stainless boiler, but all the components in the system need to be non-ferrous.

OK, thanks much for the info. Know who makes an aluminum or stainless boiler?

 

[Jackfre]

Most all of the mod-com boilers are AL/SS. Make sure your circs are as well.

 

[Chris705]

Somewhat on topic.... Could the new waterless antifreeze I saw installed on one of the powerblock shows last weekend potentially be a viable solution? Can't have a automatic water makeup (not supposed to add any water to the mix) but I have seen tanks that get attached to a boiler system that dose a glycol mixture as needed. I think the waterless antifreeze will not cause any rusting. Any opinions from the hydronic heat gurus?

 

[Durasmack]

Hey Chris!
From what the HVAC guy told me the Pex tubing without the oxygen barrier will let air/ oxygen bleed thru the tubing. that is what will cause the corrosion.... the oxygen barrier keeps oxygen/ air on the outside and does not let oxygen pass thru the tubing.

I plan to put glycol in the system.

I agree, an expert opinion form a hydronic guru would be much appreciated!

 

[BillK]

Why you gotta be all that? isn't this forum about helping others? Sorry i'm bothering you.
.

DS,
You are not bothering me at all and I am not trying to be a smart arz, I just want to make sure that you get the correct information and unless one of the people who answered actually works for the manufacturer and can guarantee you that it either will or will not work, you are NOT getting the information you need. Period.

That's all I am trying to say,

 

[Durasmack]

The pex was purchased at Menard's. The label says
1/2" ID x 300' Oxygen Barrier Pex Type A
*Common for open or closed loop radiant heat applications

From what the label says, i should be good to go. I hope.

 

[PT Doc]

Confirm with the manufacturer for sure. No matter what you are told, unless the manufacturer confirms it all just an opinion.

 

[Reflex]

Durasmack,

Either way, you should be OK. Barrier pipe is preferred, but radiant can be done without a problem if the tubing doesn't have a barrier as well. However, there's a big difference in what you use to plumb the system if it doesn't have a barrier. Double check your pipe as leading manufacturers of PEX A, B, & C all make both barrier and non-barrier tubing (Wirsbo, Zurnpex, Reahau, Viega, etc.).

If it has a barrier, it sounds like you're good to go.

If it doesn't have a barrier, you can't use anything that is ferrous anywhere in the system. In other words, without barrier you need a copper or stainless heat exchanger, pumps, expansion tanks, etc. that are OK for potable water, etc. The glycol mix isn't the issue, air penetration is.

I see non-barrier tubing used quite a bit as it's quite a bit cheaper than barrier. What people don't realize is that what they save on non-barrier tubing they'll more than make up for higher cost heat exchangers and pumps that can be used on a potable system.

One thing that absolutely cannot be used on a non-barrier system is a cast iron boiler.

In short, even if you screwed up by putting in non-barrier tubing, you can still have a system that will last longer than you do! Just do some research and you'll be able to enjoy your floor.

Best of Luck,

Reflex

 

[BD1]

Confirm with the manufacturer for sure. No matter what you are told, unless the manufacturer confirms it all just an opinion.

Yes on this ^^^^^ , call manufacture.
HVAC guy ? Why didn't the HVAC guy do it instead of the concrete guy ?

 

[brewchief]

Did the concrete guy properly insulate under the slab? If not it won't matter what type of pipe was used.

 

[Thumper68]

I have done several with the non barrier pex since I knew that a SS boiler was already spec. then the only up grade was to a alum or SS pump. My personal system uses the SS pump.