Big @ss direct drive fan question

[strength_and_power]

Looking at the 12’ model and wondering if anyone has one and their thoughts on it. It requires 110v 10 amps. The 14’ gear drive fan I’m looking at requires 220v 25amps. Price is within $150 . Space I’ll be using it in is 40’x60’, 14’ walls, 20’ peak. It’s a big spend and something I’d like to get right on the first try.
Thanks in advance.
Scott

 

[mm08822]

What type of speed control?

I would expect 2 or 3 smaller fans would be more user friendly than having to batten down the hatches before use.

25A @ 220v ??

 

[Shiftless]

Although asking fellow garage fanatics (pun intended) for advice, I’d certainly include consulting the company. They have serious engineering type employees and not just suede shoe salespeople. The big amperage quotes are probably just the required breaker size to accommodate start up power requirements. I’m sure the power consumption is not that bad once those big heavy blades get up to speed.

 

[zmotorsports]

We have about a half dozen Big *** Fans at work, granted it is a warehouse environment and not a home shop though. They have been great fans and have been very reliable. Ours are 3ph versions however and use frequency drive to control speeds and directions, not sure what the single-phase fans use for speed control, maybe VFD's if the motors are designed for it from the onset.

 

[manwithtools]

Ours are 3ph versions however and use frequency drive to control speeds and directions, not sure what the single-phase fans use for speed control, maybe VFD's if the motors are designed for it from the onset.

It's almost a certainty that the single phase versions are using a VFD to control the fan speed. They would then use the same 3 phase motors on all the fans, utilizing a single phase input VFD would make the overall designs simpler.

 

[Firebrick43]

We had some of them at work as well with terrible results.

They worked so well that women auditors would complain it was too cold and try to turn it down over the objection of the assemblers who were sweating their asses off.

One day I thought there was going to be all out war.

Management caved and we uninstalled it because they wouldn’t tell people to put more clothes on it they were cold

 

[zmotorsports]

It's almost a certainty that the single phase versions are using a VFD to control the fan speed. They would then use the same 3 phase motors on all the fans, utilizing a single phase input VFD would make the overall designs simpler.

That is what I was "assuming" but I've assumed things in the past and been wrong, so I was hoping the OP could verify the speed control used VFD and 3ph motor. Yes, it would also be a simple design in today's world.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Just an observation from the outside looking in...

I've never owned, nor ever experienced, a BA fan or anything similar. My first thought was, "Why?"
What would be the argument for one expensive huge unwieldy fan as opposed to perhaps several smaller units?

Besides the potential for hurricane-force air movement, I can only think of two possible advantages: (1) Noise (or lack thereof) - one large, slow-moving fan is almost certainly much quieter than several smaller fans; (2) Energy consumption - one large fan uses less power overall than a bunch of smaller fans.

What are the other pros & cons of these oversize fans?

 

[manwithtools]

@kbuhagiar Your assumptions are correct, they are almost silent and quite energy efficient. They move large volumes of air slowly (if you like) and that translates to a much more comfortable working environment. We've had them in a couple of our plants at work and they work well.

 

[zmotorsports]

@kbuhagiar Your assumptions are correct, they are almost silent and quite energy efficient. They move large volumes of air slowly (if you like) and that translates to a much more comfortable working environment. We've had them in a couple of our plants at work and they work well.

^^Ditto. The energy savings (ROI) was how our company justified them, the smooth and quiet operations was the cherry on top.

 

[LopezBart]

We have two of Big *** 7' airplane propeller-style bamboo fans in our house (very high ceilings, so for when we use the wood stoves as our radiant floor heat makes them unnecessary otherwise). You can see one in the upper left below. Simple, reliable, variable speed, silent. No complaints, phone or remote control interface. Since the desired result is overall air exchange, moving a large quantity of air slowly is going to be quieter and more efficient than accelerating a smaller volume to a higher speed, much as modern higher bypass jet engines are more efficient than those noisy high speed exhausts in the 727 planes.

Men and women, and older and younger people have distinctly different reactions to air movement; people in motion will want far more cooling than those sitting at a desk.

 

[Firebrick43]

Just an observation from the outside looking in...

I've never owned, nor ever experienced, a BA fan or anything similar. My first thought was, "Why?"
What would be the argument for one expensive huge unwieldy fan as opposed to perhaps several smaller units?

Besides the potential for hurricane-force air movement, I can only think of two possible advantages: (1) Noise (or lack thereof) - one large, slow-moving fan is almost certainly much quieter than several smaller fans; (2) Energy consumption - one large fan uses less power overall than a bunch of smaller fans.

What are the other pros & cons of these oversize fans?

And better air circulation and comfort. Smaller fans effects are usually felt right underneath them.

The BA fan you could feel a breeze 50’ away.

Add those three things together and it’s a question of “why wouldn’t you”

 

[strength_and_power]

Just an observation from the outside looking in...

I've never owned, nor ever experienced, a BA fan or anything similar. My first thought was, "Why?"
What would be the argument for one expensive huge unwieldy fan as opposed to perhaps several smaller units?

Besides the potential for hurricane-force air movement, I can only think of two possible advantages: (1) Noise (or lack thereof) - one large, slow-moving fan is almost certainly much quieter than several smaller fans; (2) Energy consumption - one large fan uses less power overall than a bunch of smaller fans.

What are the other pros & cons of these oversize fans?

Here are my reasons, most of which have already been stated,

Noise, the drone of a/several pedestal fans is annoying and can be a bit of a distraction.

Airflow: smaller fans are very directional, moving a foot or two out of the path pretty much makes the fan worthless. If I stop and aim a fan where I’m working, it’s guaranteed that I’ll end up somewhere outside the airflow

Clutter: a ceiling mounted fan will never be in my way. Nor will I ever have to contend with rolling over an extension cord.

 

[strength_and_power]

Although asking fellow garage fanatics (pun intended) for advice, I’d certainly include consulting the company. They have serious engineering type employees and not just suede shoe salespeople. The big amperage quotes are probably just the required breaker size to accommodate start up power requirements. I’m sure the power consumption is not that bad once those big heavy blades get up to speed.

I have reached out to the manufacturer and spoke to two different people. And got two different suggestions, the two I’m referencing above. My buddy has the 14’ in his shop which is roughly the same square footage but has a slightly lower ceiling. So I know that fan would be adequate. The slightly smaller fan is rated by the manufacturer to be suitable for up to a 60’x60’ so that should suit my needs as well.
Big *** Fans doesn’t list CFM for their products according to who I talked to. I’m sure the way that number is derived varies from manufacturer to manufacturer so the comparison isn’t apples to apples. Within their own products, I’d think k they would use the same formula so the comparison would be more accurate.

 

[LopezBart]

CFM ratings would depend on fan diameter wrt fan height from floor as well as other factors. There are some CFM ratings on the website for some of their large HVLS fans (54K CFM in one case I saw). If you're considering a purchase, talking with their technical support folks would be the way to proceed; they'll likely have nomographs, etc. to help estimate actual delivered CFM.

 

[cvairwerks]

What are the other pros & cons of these oversize fans?

Another big advantage is being able to tailor the air flow to the need. You can run a BA at near zero rpms and get airflow with it being almost silent. You can dial it up to max and get tons of air flow and still be able to carry on a conversation at normal voice levels while standing within a foot or two of the face of the fan. The total noise package, no matter what speed you are running it at, is a huge reduction in environmental stress when you are working in the shop. Work around one of those massive noise generation barrel fans for a while and notice how tired and stressed you get vs working in an environment without the noise levels.

 

[alfredeneuman]

In 1 building where I worked we installed BA fans in the Shipping/Receiving Dept, sized by BA fans (20 ft fan, 480 3 phase) mounted inside a 30' high building at about 25'.
We had to limit the speed to 20% because it blew all the papers off the desks.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Looking at the 12’ model and wondering if anyone has one and their thoughts on it. It requires 110v 10 amps. The 14’ gear drive fan I’m looking at requires 220v 25amps. Price is within $150 . Space I’ll be using it in is 40’x60’, 14’ walls, 20’ peak. It’s a big spend and something I’d like to get right on the first try.
Thanks in advance.
Scott

I've been around a number of these fans. They work fantastic and the noise level is extremely low.

That 12' fan will move too much air at the main location. I know that sounds crazy. You have a relatively low ceiling height so the area underneath is in the direct stream. You'll end up running it at lower speeds because of the amount of air it is moving in that area.

Go with two smaller fans. Nothing too small. I'd still run 7-10' range with two. That will allow you to move air around the whole building without heavy concentration around the one fan.
I'd also recommend running speed controls on each so they can run independently.

One of my work locations installed eight 20' fans and two 25' versions that were initially tied together. Thirty five foot flat ceiling. Eighty to hundred foot spacing. They initially went cheap on the controllers without true variable speed. People working around the 25 footers started looking for steel blocks to hold paperwork. (We ran the whole works on medium click.)
In the end we put in dial controllers on the 25' fans and dialed them way down.

I know it's a chunk of change to do two fans vs. one bigger version. I think it's still worth the ability to manage the air. Two smaller fans will hit the whole area with low to medium speed. It also gives you the ability to use "sweep the dust" airflow if you want.

 

[vavet]

I was floored to see them in the international gates area of BWI.
In theory, a large diameter, slow speed fan will move more air and be more comfortable than a smaller, faster turning fan. I looked into them for my detached garage and was amazed by how expensive they were. I bought a mini split instead.

 

[strength_and_power]

I've been around a number of these fans. They work fantastic and the noise level is extremely low.

That 12' fan will move too much air at the main location. I know that sounds crazy. You have a relatively low ceiling height so the area underneath is in the direct stream. You'll end up running it at lower speeds because of the amount of air it is moving in that area.

Go with two smaller fans. Nothing too small. I'd still run 7-10' range with two. That will allow you to move air around the whole building without heavy concentration around the one fan.
I'd also recommend running speed controls on each so they can run independently.

One of my work locations installed eight 20' fans and two 25' versions that were initially tied together. Thirty five foot flat ceiling. Eighty to hundred foot spacing. They initially went cheap on the controllers without true variable speed. People working around the 25 footers started looking for steel blocks to hold paperwork. (We ran the whole works on medium click.)
In the end we put in dial controllers on the 25' fans and dialed them way down.

I know it's a chunk of change to do two fans vs. one bigger version. I think it's still worth the ability to manage the air. Two smaller fans will hit the whole area with low to medium speed. It also gives you the ability to use "sweep the dust" airflow if you want.

Interesting thought about two fans, definitely something to consider. The second fan would need to be a bit higher up as 1/4 the fans area would be over the future mezzanine.

Looking at BAF’s warranty, the direct drive has the shortest warranty, interesting to know why.

 

[nadogail]

We had some of them at work as well with terrible results.

They worked so well that women auditors would complain it was too cold and try to turn it down over the objection of the assemblers who were sweating their asses off.

One day I thought there was going to be all out war.

Management caved and we uninstalled it because they wouldn’t tell people to put more clothes on it they were cold

Often I appreciate women who are wearing less clothes, so I would encourage them to dress to accommodate the production workers who are generating the product that produces the business income they are auditing.

No product means there will be no need for Auditors.

 

[BillK]

I dont know where you are located, what the space will be used for and how the space is built but I would have to wonder if it would be better to put in a AC unit to keep the place cool ?

Disclaimer ....... that comes from someone who really does not like fans very much. I simply don't like moving air when I am working.

 

[Adaylate]

This not about your question but something to think about when installing a large, slow moving fan.
If there are lights mounted above it, the blade movement can cause a strobe effect in the area below.
Good luck with your project!

 

[Fav Onefour]

Interesting thought about two fans, definitely something to consider. The second fan would need to be a bit higher up as 1/4 the fans area would be over the future mezzanine.

Looking at BAF’s warranty, the direct drive has the shortest warranty, interesting to know why.

I missed the part about having a mezz. Will you have headroom? I'm thinking about lumping product up to the upper level. I mention moving product because I've seen too many forklifts hit things they forgot about above them.
I'm not sure about your vertical space on the mezz.
I would verify the mounting height specs before tucking it too high. They work well but they lose effectiveness without proper airflow clearance. It's hard to describe if you have not been around them. The fans simply move a lot of air in a large flow pattern. There's no drama, it's just air moving. It's not like those little fans that make a racket and give you a jet of air.

The difference in warranty is interesting. I have no idea why the direct drive is shorter duration. Don't the direct drive units have a dial speed control?

 

[mm08822]

This not about your question but something to think about when installing a large, slow moving fan.
If there are lights mounted above it, the blade movement can cause a strobe effect in the area below.
Good luck with your project!

Even off to the side it can still be seen causing a stroke effect.

Welding and paint finishing don't necessarily go well with air flow.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Some of the factories I installed fire sprinklers in had big azz fans, they had to have a shunt trip tied to the flow alarm, if water flowed for fire protection, the fan would turn off.

They sure are quiet and move some air

 

[Stuart in MN]

Here are my reasons, most of which have already been stated,

Noise, the drone of a/several pedestal fans is annoying and can be a bit of a distraction.

Airflow: smaller fans are very directional, moving a foot or two out of the path pretty much makes the fan worthless. If I stop and aim a fan where I’m working, it’s guaranteed that I’ll end up somewhere outside the airflow

Clutter: a ceiling mounted fan will never be in my way. Nor will I ever have to contend with rolling over an extension cord.

I think the person you were responding to was suggesting multiple ceiling fans, not pedestal fans. When I was still working as an engineer we would often put a number of smaller ceiling fans in a large industrial room. It was less expensive than going with one of the giant fans, and you can get a single controller that will operate multiple fans so it's not like you have a whole bank of control knobs on the wall.

 

[strength_and_power]

I missed the part about having a mezz. Will you have headroom? I'm thinking about lumping product up to the upper level. I mention moving product because I've seen too many forklifts hit things they forgot about above them.
I'm not sure about your vertical space on the mezz.
I would verify the mounting height specs before tucking it too high. They work well but they lose effectiveness without proper airflow clearance. It's hard to describe if you have not been around them. The fans simply move a lot of air in a large flow pattern. There's no drama, it's just air moving. It's not like those little fans that make a racket and give you a jet of air.

The difference in warranty is interesting. I have no idea why the direct drive is shorter duration. Don't the direct drive units have a dial speed control?

Based on their mounting requirements, the distance from the mezzanine to the fan would be in the 9-10’ range. If I go by what they spec’d on their quote, I’d have about 6’ which I wouldn’t do. A smaller diameter fan in that area would have less coverage over the mezzanine but could also be mounted higher.
The direct drive does have a speed control and less moving parts so shorter warranty doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
I’ve found a few other direct drive HVLS fan companies with 3 year warranties so I’m going to reach out to them for pricing to compare. Being it’s a home shop and the fan won’t be used daily, the warranty period is probably a moot point.

 

[Jeff C]

We have 10 donkey fans at work. 3 are about 10 years old and the other 7 are about 2 years old. They run thousands of hours a year. We’ve had zero issues with them. Well, not counting hitting them with forklifts and rolling ladders. When we’ve had to replace some blades they’ve been easy to work with to get replacement blades.

 

[Stuart in MN]

What's a donkey fan?

 

[Firebrick43]

What's a donkey fan?

Their logo is the south end of a north bound donkey

 

[strength_and_power]

I dont know where you are located, what the space will be used for and how the space is built but I would have to wonder if it would be better to put in a AC unit to keep the place cool ?

Disclaimer ....... that comes from someone who really does not like fans very much. I simply don't like moving air when I am working.

It’s my shop. Welding and metal fab, a little bit of woodworking, man cave, place to work on my 74 Pontiac Ventura.
I have a thread on the shop in 1200+ sq ft

 

[strength_and_power]

This not about your question but something to think about when installing a large, slow moving fan.
If there are lights mounted above it, the blade movement can cause a strobe effect in the area below.
Good luck with your project!

I just mounted and wired 11 high bay lights with a few more to come ( ran out of time with a borrowed scissor lift)
I mounted the lights with the fan in mind so there shouldn’t be a strobe effect.

 

[strength_and_power]

Even off to the side it can still be seen causing a stroke effect.

Welding and paint finishing don't necessarily go well with air flow.

I’m happy to leave the painting of things that need to look good to someone else

At my buddy’s fab shop, he has. 14’ fan and rarely has issues with his shielding gas being blown away when MIG welding. TIG welding he usually turns it way down so unless I have it maxed out, I should be able to do most welding with some degree of comfort.

 

[strength_and_power]

I think the person you were responding to was suggesting multiple ceiling fans, not pedestal fans. When I was still working as an engineer we would often put a number of smaller ceiling fans in a large industrial room. It was less expensive than going with one of the giant fans, and you can get a single controller that will operate multiple fans so it's not like you have a whole bank of control knobs on the wall.

I already have a bank of switches for my lights so a bank of control knobs would t be out of place but I will probably end up with just one fan co troller.