Big Tap and Die Sets, What's going on?

[BarrelRoll]

Is anyone actually selling a 9/16"-1" and 14mm-24mm tap and die sets these days? The Irwin kits aren't available anywhere in stock and I don't believe Snapon is selling them either though I'll check with my rep Tuesday.


I've got an Irwin tiny to to 1/2"/ 12mm tap and die set at work which is "good enough" though I could use some sets of bigger sizes. If I was always next to my tool box and knew what I was working on ahead of time I'd just buy bigger taps and dies individually. Unfortunately I work on everything without wheels on a mine site and am often times throwing a bag of tools into the bed of a truck and working 1/2 an hour away from my tool box. Blow molded cases and assortments with every common size just works better for the type of work I do.

Any ideas where to find an in stock set?

 

[Ricky Joe]

I have a hodgepodge set of large taps and dies. If you are interested I will sell them. Let me know.

 

[Bill T]

Go to: Grainger.com

 

[Grant Gunderson]

I started with standard sets, and then just add what I need as I need it. I now have a pretty full set. I find that I never break dies or wear them out as they don’t see the use Taps do. So when I buy taps I almost always buy multiple of each as it ***** if you break one mid project after store hours. Also I’d highly recommend buying Spiral Taps. They are light years better than the standard hardware store taps and because they actually pull the chips from the hole are way less prone to breaking. I wish I had known about the spirals years ago. It’s all I’ll buy now and have been adding them to the collection anytime I need a tap.

 

[blazemaster83]

Sure they are out there, just be sitting down when you look up the price. I am always on the lookout for older used sets, but they are hard to find complete.

 

[nadogail]

Keep in mind that when you look at a used set you are going to see the remainders that were left after somebody worked that set like it was a rented mule.

A used set might be a place to start from if you are prepared to shell out for the worn and broken common sizes.

If you have an employer who will replace broken or worn out tools; let them fill up your used set.

 

[DadsTools]

Is anyone actually selling a 9/16"-1" and 14mm-24mm tap and die sets these days? The Irwin kits aren't available anywhere in stock and I don't believe Snapon is selling them either though I'll check with my rep Tuesday.


I've got an Irwin tiny to to 1/2"/ 12mm tap and die set at work which is "good enough" though I could use some sets of bigger sizes. If I was always next to my tool box and knew what I was working on ahead of time I'd just buy bigger taps and dies individually. Unfortunately I work on everything without wheels on a mine site and am often times throwing a bag of tools into the bed of a truck and working 1/2 an hour away from my tool box. Blow molded cases and assortments with every common size just works better for the type of work I do.

Any ideas where to find an in stock set?

If you haven't already, I'd post this question in the General Tool Discussion section where all the tool enthusiasts hang. That's where I usually hang. I just happened onto this thread because I was killing time waiting for wifey to get off the phone, otherwise I don't browse the section of the forum. Give it a try.

 

[dr_clyde]

Why do you need a “set”? Just buy the taps and dies you need. They even come in plastic boxes to keep them sharp.

Sets usually are filled with mediocre or less than stellar quality tools and aren’t even close to being competitive in quality for the money.

If you really want a fancy case, just buy a Plano tackle box and fill it with good tools.

Buy your taps and dies from an industrial supply house.

 

[RoninB4]

+1 to the above post. I've been employed as a toolmaker for decades and I don't have what you'd call a "complete set" of taps/dies. I have quite a few inch/metric taps but nothing for some sizes. A 1/4" tap is a fairly common size I've used hundreds of times but only as 1/4-20, I'll bet I've only used a 1/4-28 less than 20 times over 35 years in dozens of machine shops. Sets may be ok for cleaning out crud from threads but that's about it. Cutting new, crossed threads, or in difficult material (SS for eg.) a tap from a set has a good chance of breaking because the quality of steel in sets, tap and/or die, flatly *****. If it doesn't clearly state HSS then it's plain carbon steel and not very good.

Will the lower quality taps suffice for the one or two time you use them? Maybe, maybe not. Many/most of the non-magnetic flavors of stainless steel (300 series) have an aggressive rate of work hardening up to 5 times the original condition. So when you run the drill RPM too fast, most people do, and/or use a dull drill (most are), it will likely work harden. Now you try to run a **** tap through that work hardened hole and there's a good chance you'll break the tap off in the hole.

I understand wanting a full set of tools to do whatever you may encounter but buying taps/dies in a set, especially from makers like Irwin, is asking for trouble. Do you know how a dull tap feels when using it and when it's going to break? Ever have to dig the remains of a tap out of a hole? Sometimes it can/will ruin the project. Buy the common sizes a few at a time in HSS, from an industrial supply house, and from known makers. I don't buy/use **** wrenches on vehicles and I don't use **** tooling on machining projects. It's your work and your choice.

 

[brownbagg]

i buy singles, with the drill bit so i get what i need. my common is a 1/8 nf pipe

 

[tarbellb]

singles

eBay for a deal, Mcmaster or Grainger for new non bs

 

[LXCam]

Magna makes complete sets. I’ll agree singles are a better way to go but it’s nice having an all inclusive set to have when the going gets tuff at 2 in the morning.

 

[Shop-hound]

I started with standard sets, and then just add what I need as I need it. I now have a pretty full set. I find that I never break dies or wear them out as they don’t see the use Taps do. So when I buy taps I almost always buy multiple of each as it ***** if you break one mid project after store hours. Also I’d highly recommend buying Spiral Taps. They are light years better than the standard hardware store taps and because they actually pull the chips from the hole are way less prone to breaking. I wish I had known about the spirals years ago. It’s all I’ll buy now and have been adding them to the collection anytime I need a tap.

Nice organization bin for those. Just to clarify for the OP, there are 2 types of spiral taps:

1- spiral tip or gun tap (good for through holes, Ejects chips ahead of the tap and

2 - a spiral flute (good for blind holes, pulls the chips out towards the chuck, but significantly weaker than a regular plug/taper/gun tap which is less than fun to remove when it breaks. (though the deep flutes make getting a tap extractor in easier)

 

[Shop-hound]

And +1 for buying in singles. Spiral point and bottoming/spiral flute in the key sizes (generally coarse thread is most common so start with those). PITA to need to carry both metric and imperial systems in everything but here we are.

 

[nadogail]

Good taps cut good threads, Cheap taps might cut OK threads and they might be OK if you are lucky.

 

[tyyost]

Back in the 1990’s Sears had a Craftsman add on set for larger sizes. I got it for Christmas one year, as I asked for it for cleaning up U bolts that were 5/8 fine thread and other suspension work. You couldn’t buy the bigger sizes in the store, and as a teen I didn't know about the industrial suppliers that were local.

The best part of the set was the tap wrench and die stock as they were heavy duty. I can count on one hand how many times I have used beyond the it bedsides the 5/8 die and tap. Buy quality ones for projects, with McMaster a good tool is a day or so away.

 

[Zewnten]

Blow molded cases and assortments with every common size just works better for the type of work I do.

Only one poster, Dr Kylde, bothered reading this part before and offered an alternative in the plano boxes, but I will second it. I had 2 large sets of taps from tiny to 3/4. Rarely had a spot to lay them out especially in the field and more than once the whole thing slid or flipped and I got to spend a lot of time finding taps and cleaning them. So I switched to Plano boxes of similar sizes. 5/8 to 3/4 with 16mm to 19mm was one box, next box had 3/8 to 9/16 with simalr sized metrics. Easy toopen grab what I needed and close it again. I also kept them in the little protective sleeves to keep dirt and rain off of them.

 

[ItsNemo]

I have the big Gearwrench 114pc set, goes up to 3/4" and M18 which is more than most. I don't know of any sets that come with larger sizes.

Also, ignore all the just get "single taps" people here...start with a set and then add in singles of the ones you use a lot or wear out in the set. I'd much rather have a tap set with all the sizes then not having the tap I need at all when it's 6pm on a Sunday and I need to finish the job.

 

[bmwrd0]

McMaster has sets running up to around 1" and 24mm. But it's two separate sets and they will cost you a grand together. But they will be good quality sets, not junk.

But I get where you are coming from with wanting sets, as I used to be mobile too. Although I never needed anything that big. But, does your company have any common use tools? A lot of places take care of major stuff like that, I would look into it.

 

[BarrelRoll]

A little more about my job. I work at a mine off the road system in Alaska, there's no 1 day shipping. I don't know I need something till equipment is broken and some times it needs to be up right away. I'm not buying for hobby projects that can sit for a week while tools come in. There are days I'm in the middle of one job, something breaks and I get pull off that job and on to an emergency job.

Go to: Grainger.com

got a link to a set in stock?

Why do you need a “set”? Just buy the taps and dies you need. They even come in plastic boxes to keep them sharp.

Sets usually are filled with mediocre or less than stellar quality tools and aren’t even close to being competitive in quality for the money.

If you really want a fancy case, just buy a Plano tackle box and fill it with good tools.

Buy your taps and dies from an industrial supply house.

Half the time I don't know I'll NEED something till I'm getting a call a piece of equipment is down. I work on everything including our port facility, crusher, mill, batch plants, water treatment plants, and everything in between. The mine owns some stuff though it's picked over/ not in an easy configuration to grab and go. We are allowed X amount of down time before it starts effecting our department's bonus. Running back to my tool box can eat up an hour plus so having everything together makes life easier when someone has changed 1 bolt of a different size than the rest. There's such a variety of equipment there's no common sizes/ threads. Grabbing the majority of my taps in 1-3 boxes makes it a lot easier. A kit is a good baseline for the more common stuff is what I want/ need. I use McMaster Carr bags for some of the odd stuff like bspp.

The plano boxes are an option, I have a ton at home. My experiance with them in the back of a jeep has been mixed, they don't always last.

Back in the 1990’s Sears had a Craftsman add on set for larger sizes. I got it for Christmas one year, as I asked for it for cleaning up U bolts that were 5/8 fine thread and other suspension work. You couldn’t buy the bigger sizes in the store, and as a teen I didn't know about the industrial suppliers that were local.

The best part of the set was the tap wrench and die stock as they were heavy duty. I can count on one hand how many times I have used beyond the it bedsides the 5/8 die and tap. Buy quality ones for projects, with McMaster a good tool is a day or so away.

I work at a mine off the road system in Alaska, there's no 1 day shipping. After it arrives in town it needs to get on the crew boat (personal packages under 8 pounds ship 2 days a week) or on the weekly barge (once a week). Piecing a set together from McMaster Carr of the economy carbon steel taps is roughly the same price as a kit. Working on mining equipment we use the bigger sizes often, my 15/16" wrench and socket (5/8" bolts) get used the most though my 1 1/8" stuff (3/4" bolts) get a decent workout as well, we have a lot of bigger metric stuff on our crushers.

Only one poster, Dr Kylde, bothered reading this part before and offered an alternative in the plano boxes, but I will second it. I had 2 large sets of taps from tiny to 3/4. Rarely had a spot to lay them out especially in the field and more than once the whole thing slid or flipped and I got to spend a lot of time finding taps and cleaning them. So I switched to Plano boxes of similar sizes. 5/8 to 3/4 with 16mm to 19mm was one box, next box had 3/8 to 9/16 with simalr sized metrics. Easy toopen grab what I needed and close it again. I also kept them in the little protective sleeves to keep dirt and rain off of them.

Thanks, people don't realize the environment I work in. Many times I'm in my tool box in the morning to load up the truck, maybe at lunch to grab things I've forgotten, and at the end of the day to put things away. Some days I'm within 100 yards of my tool box all day. We don't have our own trucks with service beds, it's 2 crew cab flat beds for 7 mechanics so your tools aren't always packed and you don't do the same jobs day in day out.

The plano boxes might be an option and price wise it isn't much different.

I'll see what the snapon guy has to say about them offering a kit. Their warranty/ convenience is great for me. Most of my crew and myself stop by his shop on our go home day.


Back to the topic, does anyone know of a kit in stock or why Irwin is out of stock everywhere?

 

[BarrelRoll]

McMaster has sets running up to around 1" and 24mm. But it's two separate sets and they will cost you a grand together. But they will be good quality sets, not junk.

But I get where you are coming from with wanting sets, as I used to be mobile too. Although I never needed anything that big. But, does your company have any common use tools? A lot of places take care of major stuff like that, I would look into it.

McMaster Carr is out of stock on all the sets with 1" and 24mm taps and dies. Cost doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

The mine has some stuff and fastenal stocks our common sized course thread standard/ metric taps. We have a couple picked over tap and die sets that go to 1" though are missing a bunch of stuff. It's a lot easier to buy your own and try and get them to replace something when it breaks than hope the last guy put it back. The mine gives us a yearly tool allowance and I make sure I spend it all.

 

[tyyost]

Thanks for the clarification on the need/usage. l thought Matco had some sets, and looking at thier site they do - Matco Sets

 

[wafrederick]

Snap On is in the process of making their taps and dies.Irwin cut them off after the locking pliers made by Malco came out.

 

[64C10]

I came up in a similar role (mining support), and started out with an Irwin set. As the Irwin stuff wore out/got lost/broke, I gradually replaced all the sizes I regularly use with quality stuff (mainly Greenfield and Cle-Line) and built an old Kennedy 520 into my tap/die set.

 

[sk farmer]

good lord........ this subject again?

hats off to all of you guys who can wait for what you need or magically know what size you need before you need it.

do the same guys buy one wrench or socket at a time, or do they start with a set? how many of those same guys have every socket and wrench size by 1/32 to 2 inches or 50mm including half sizes or better just in case they need it?

my advice and i think it is pretty solid. buy a set that covers a broad range of sizes, it will include taps, dies, thread pitch gauges, handles and keep them all organized and safe while offering sight inventory. far better to have an ok or acceptable tool when you need it than a top of the line tool you don't have. why handicap yourself?

absolutely replace broken and missing pieces with better stuff if and when you can. they are correct on that part but for normal run of the mill work general purpose tap and dies sets will do just fine when used with care, patience and cutting fluid.

i also cringe when i see taps and dies thrown randomly in a box. in my very limited machinist training i was taught that taps where to be stored as to not touch either to avoid unintended wear and chipping. maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

 

[dr_clyde]

You know, you’re allowed to buy more than one tap at a time.

Just go in the industrial supply, hand them a list of all the taps and dies in the set, and say: “One of each, please.” Then put them in a Plano tray or similar and presto! Tap and die set made from QUALITY taps and dies.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

good lord........ this subject again?

hats off to all of you guys who can wait for what you need or magically know what size you need before you need it.

do the same guys buy one wrench or socket at a time, or do they start with a set? how many of those same guys have every socket and wrench size by 1/32 to 2 inches or 50mm including half sizes or better just in case they need it?

my advice and i think it is pretty solid. buy a set that covers a broad range of sizes, it will include taps, dies, thread pitch gauges, handles and keep them all organized and safe while offering sight inventory. far better to have an ok or acceptable tool when you need it than a top of the line tool you don't have. why handicap yourself?

absolutely replace broken and missing pieces with better stuff if and when you can. they are correct on that part but for normal run of the mill work general purpose tap and dies sets will do just fine when used with care, patience and cutting fluid.

i also cringe when i see taps and dies thrown randomly in a box. in my very limited machinist training i was taught that taps where to be stored as to not touch either to avoid unintended wear and chipping. maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

The problem is 99% of the time the taps that come in those sets are garbage, plus they are always plug taps. I’d much rather buy a full set of singles, but in both tapper and bottoming configuration. Btw the YG1 brand spiral taps on Amazon are surprising very good for the price. I’ve been very impressed with them so far.

 

[dr_clyde]

Mechanics REALLY like sets. Fancy blow molded cases, all the sizes laid out there for you to admire. Shining chrome, all lined up. I get it. I like sets too. When I started in the machining world, I very much wanted to buy SETS of all the bits and cutters I needed. I figured, "I don't have ANY end mills, so a set is a good place to start". I was pretty wrong about that.

Turns out, the machining world doesn't really sell cutters in sets. If they do, they're generally bottom of the barrel garbage sold to people who don't know any better. These tools are NOT like screwdrivers and sockets. Part of the reason for this is taps, dies, end mills, drills and inserts are CONSUMABLES. They get dull, you can sharpen them a few times, then you throw them out. Coatings wear off, teeth chip and dull, etc. This is something a lot of home guys don't understand. They assume a nice tap will last a lifetime if you don't snap it off. Eh, depends. Maybe if you tap one hole a year. But taps wear out. Especially the cheap carbon steel ones found in sets.

They're also very purpose specific, and as such aren't really feasible to be sold in "sets". In taps, there are half a dozen or more different styles of taps that you can use for any given thread. Same for dies. It would be nigh impossible to sell a "complete" set, there'd be THOUSANDS of parts. A spiral flute tap is different than a spiral point, which is different than a roll form tap which is different than an ACME square thread, etc. What do you include in the set? You'll never have a tap for EVERY eventuality.

If you want to be prepared for MOST things you may need to thread, look at a typical drill and tap size chart. There are about 64 different common threads in use for general machining. Size ranging from 0-80 to 1-1/2-12. This includes coarse and fine threads, metric and inch. Pick out the ones you might actually see on a day to day basis. Buy those taps and dies. Buy the tap drills for the taps. Leave them in the little plastic boxes they come in, then stick them in your tray/box/case of choice. Make your own if you like. Greenfield used to supply theirs in nice wooden fitted cases. Very nice.

If you're on the road and worried about damaging the taps, that's why you keep them in their individual boxes. In the shop just put them in the drawer. They won't be damaged by touching each other. Remember, they CUT metal, so they're very hard. Ever try to cut a tap? Takes real work, even with a grinder. They won't hurt each other just laying on each other in the drawer. On a service truck or in a rough environment, maybe. But in the shop? Naw.

I really wish I understood why specific tools get this weird aura of mystique and mystery, as well as old adages and wives tales. Taps, files, drills, chisels and cutters in general seem to have it the most. It's like there is this weird barrier with them that a screwdriver just doesn't have. No one ever worries about their pliers coming in a "set". And yet there are HUNDREDS of styles of pliers, some VERY specific and necessary for jobs. Same with sockets. I suspect it boils down to a combination of general ignorance coupled with hearsay from old timers or trusted mentors who may or may not know what's the best option available.

Want machining stuff? Look at what machine shops do. They don't buy taps in "sets", so that tells me it isn't the best way to buy taps.

 

[ItsNemo]

Mechanics REALLY like sets. Fancy blow molded cases, all the sizes laid out there for you to admire. Shining chrome, all lined up. I get it. I like sets too. When I started in the machining world, I very much wanted to buy SETS of all the bits and cutters I needed. I figured, "I don't have ANY end mills, so a set is a good place to start". I was pretty wrong about that.

Turns out, the machining world doesn't really sell cutters in sets. If they do, they're generally bottom of the barrel garbage sold to people who don't know any better. These tools are NOT like screwdrivers and sockets. Part of the reason for this is taps, dies, end mills, drills and inserts are CONSUMABLES. They get dull, you can sharpen them a few times, then you throw them out. Coatings wear off, teeth chip and dull, etc. This is something a lot of home guys don't understand. They assume a nice tap will last a lifetime if you don't snap it off. Eh, depends. Maybe if you tap one hole a year. But taps wear out. Especially the cheap carbon steel ones found in sets.

They're also very purpose specific, and as such aren't really feasible to be sold in "sets". In taps, there are half a dozen or more different styles of taps that you can use for any given thread. Same for dies. It would be nigh impossible to sell a "complete" set, there'd be THOUSANDS of parts. A spiral flute tap is different than a spiral point, which is different than a roll form tap which is different than an ACME square thread, etc. What do you include in the set? You'll never have a tap for EVERY eventuality.

If you want to be prepared for MOST things you may need to thread, look at a typical drill and tap size chart. There are about 64 different common threads in use for general machining. Size ranging from 0-80 to 1-1/2-12. This includes coarse and fine threads, metric and inch. Pick out the ones you might actually see on a day to day basis. Buy those taps and dies. Buy the tap drills for the taps. Leave them in the little plastic boxes they come in, then stick them in your tray/box/case of choice. Make your own if you like. Greenfield used to supply theirs in nice wooden fitted cases. Very nice.

If you're on the road and worried about damaging the taps, that's why you keep them in their individual boxes. In the shop just put them in the drawer. They won't be damaged by touching each other. Remember, they CUT metal, so they're very hard. Ever try to cut a tap? Takes real work, even with a grinder. They won't hurt each other just laying on each other in the drawer. On a service truck or in a rough environment, maybe. But in the shop? Naw.

I really wish I understood why specific tools get this weird aura of mystique and mystery, as well as old adages and wives tales. Taps, files, drills, chisels and cutters in general seem to have it the most. It's like there is this weird barrier with them that a screwdriver just doesn't have. No one ever worries about their pliers coming in a "set". And yet there are HUNDREDS of styles of pliers, some VERY specific and necessary for jobs. Same with sockets. I suspect it boils down to a combination of general ignorance coupled with hearsay from old timers or trusted mentors who may or may not know what's the best option available.

Want machining stuff? Look at what machine shops do. They don't buy taps in "sets", so that tells me it isn't the best way to buy taps.

Most people aren't machinists...they're using taps and dies to clean up existing holes or tap one or two holes, not making new parts all day every day. The taps in sets aren't any better than the singles from an equal brand, you get an irwin tap set, it's the same ones you get when you buy singles.

Machinists also have the luxury of getting a print in advance, knowing the threads they need to make, days lead time to purchase any necessary tooling from their next day supplier, and do the job. There are thousands of different taps yes, but having any tap of the right thread pitch is better than no tap at all, and nobody is going to go buy thousands so they have everything imaginable in their service truck. Budgets are not unlimited, you live in a dream world where the only solution in your mind is to buy a single tap each time you need one, geeze.

A set is the best place to START for anyone short of a production machine shop.

 

[2oolhound]

Here you go - Qual-tech

I've had one of these for 5 years or more and they aren't bad tools. Made in Taiwan. Sears used to sell them so shop around for the best price. They used to make 2 types, a carbon steel and a tungsten set (3 times the price). It's the last set on the link provided. When I got mine the carbon set was around $150 but it's $350 today. Back then the tungsten set was around $350.

They've been worth their weight in gold for the times I've needed the larger sizes. Money well spent. Here's what my set loos like (but I ditched the blow molded case and keep tap & dies in drawers in a roller cabinet).

Manufacturer Part Number: DWT45PC-SETTap and Die Sets, 1/4-1 NC and NF CS Tap and Die Set

 

[dr_clyde]

Most people aren't machinists...they're using taps and dies to clean up existing holes or tap one or two holes, not making new parts all day every day. The taps in sets aren't any better than the singles from an equal brand, you get an irwin tap set, it's the same ones you get when you buy singles.

Machinists also have the luxury of getting a print in advance, knowing the threads they need to make, days lead time to purchase any necessary tooling from their next day supplier, and do the job. There are thousands of different taps yes, but having any tap of the right thread pitch is better than no tap at all, and nobody is going to go buy thousands so they have everything imaginable in their service truck. Budgets are not unlimited, you live in a dream world where the only solution in your mind is to buy a single tap each time you need one, geeze.

A set is the best place to START for anyone short of a production machine shop.

What part of buying multiple taps at the same time are you guys not getting? You can buy a whole "set" of good taps in one transaction. You don't have to drive back to the store each time to get a new one. Just fukkin buy the variety at once, stick them in a box and call it a day.

FFS, you guys make this so hard. Good lord.

I have to LOL about the part about getting prints in advance. Sure. It happens occasionally. But more often than not, jobs just show up. I need to keep a large variety of tooling on hand to handle hot jobs. If I am quoting a job, I absolutely will put tooling in the budget and buy accordingly. But you'll be hard pressed to find a REAL machine shop that doesn't have at least one drawer of most common taps, drills, counterbores, couuntersinks, inserts, end mills, and some HSS lathe tool bits. Because you need them a LOT.

Why the heck would you buy an Irwin tap single?? That's not even close to a good deal. Those taps ****. Yeah, a tap is 4 bucks vs 8 bucks but the 8 buck tap is actually a good tap. At least the Irwin tap set has the case, which is apparently more valuable than I gave it credit for.

This isn't even a budget thing. Good taps are NOT that much more in price than the ****** ones. Near as I can find, a 1/2-13 carbon steel Irwin Hanson 4 flute hand tap is about $10. A GOOD quality 1/2-13 spiral point TiN coated HSS tap is only $23 on McMaster. And McMaster is far from the cheapest option in town. 1/2" taps are also pretty decent size for a home shop. I would expect most home shop guys would be using taps that cost HALF that for the good stuff.

I have budgets. I can't just YOLO every time I buy tooling. My tooling HAS to make me money or it is a waste. Hobby **** doesn't even have to turn a profit. It is 100% loss. Maybe you can break even on repairs, but even then, you act like I just spend money willy nilly. I wouldn't advise people to spend money I wouldn't. Just because I have a machine shop doesn't make the economics of durable goods any different. The good stuff is less money in the long run because it lasts so much longer. I'd go out of business if I had to buy ****** tools and try to make money.

A good tap IS more money. But it is SO WORTH IT. No question. An average home shop might need a variety of let's say 30 taps. Let's say they average 10 bucks a pop (most taps under 1/2" are less). That's only $300 bucks for good tools. You'd spend that on a set from most of the big box stores, and those taps will be made of cheese compared to a TiN coated HSS tap.

The part that absolutely slays me on this is the good taps aren't that expensive. Guys will drop $30 on a case of ****** beer and piss it out in two hours, but a 1/2" tap that will last years is somehow too expensive? Give me a break...

I make pretty decent money removing the broken off carbon steel taps from various auto mechanics in my area. Each broken tap is a $100 bill in my pocket, as they take a couple minutes to get out with a welder or the mill. I then tap the hole with a HSS tap and hand them the part back. Done that enough times to pay for several tap sets.

In my experience, tap sets are a giant waste of money and they are targeted toward people who don't know any better. People come on here asking for advice, and then those of us who have been there, done that and got the tee shirt get **** on for telling people our opinions based on our experience. At the end of the day, its not my money, and I truly don't give two shits what people buy. Good luck, YMMV.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

The taps in sets aren't any better than the singles from an equal brand, you get an irwin tap set, it's the same ones you get when you buy singles.

Thats 100% not true.... You are failing to understand the difference in A, quality, and B, in the types of taps that come in sets.

Every set I have ever seen is Plug taps. They do nothing well. Especially for a guy working in the field as he is ALWAYS hand tapping without the aid of a drill press or mill, so he would be light years ahead using TAPPER taps for everything that doesn't require a bottom tap.

Here is the other side of it, no mfg ever just Willi-nillie chooses what tap sizes to use. They have to buy the tooling as well, and with experience you will quickly learn that EVERY mfg, no matter what it is, always uses a hand full of thread sizes for EVERYTHING with very few exceptions. For example chances are you will never need a ¼-28 tap... hell for that matter chances are you will never use 99% of the fine thread taps with the exception of 10-32 unless you work on very specific things that use those.

 

[454ragtop]

Might start with something like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/354189929532?hash=item52775d6c3c:g:LGEAAOSw-3Ri4dQT
That will get you to 3/4", then pick up what you need in the larger sizes. I too like complete sets, repair / 1 off fab work is different from mass production. It's nice to have what you need when you need it.

 

[Etchase]

I started with standard sets, and then just add what I need as I need it. I now have a pretty full set. I find that I never break dies or wear them out as they don’t see the use Taps do. So when I buy taps I almost always buy multiple of each as it ***** if you break one mid project after store hours. Also I’d highly recommend buying Spiral Taps. They are light years better than the standard hardware store taps and because they actually pull the chips from the hole are way less prone to breaking. I wish I had known about the spirals years ago. It’s all I’ll buy now and have been adding them to the collection anytime I need a tap.

Where did you get those magnificent trays and labels? Your set up would have saved me countless hours looking for stuff. Well done!

 

[RoninB4]

my advice and i think it is pretty solid. ---- in my very limited machinist training

Thank you for qualifying your opinion and how you came by it. If all a tap is asked to do is clean crud out of existing threads even a gashed/fluted screw will do just fine. It's your work and you can use whatever you want. Ganbatte.

 

[ItsNemo]

What part of buying multiple taps at the same time are you guys not getting? You can buy a whole "set" of good taps in one transaction. You don't have to drive back to the store each time to get a new one. Just fukkin buy the variety at once, stick them in a box and call it a day.

FFS, you guys make this so hard. Good lord.

I have to LOL about the part about getting prints in advance. Sure. It happens occasionally. But more often than not, jobs just show up. I need to keep a large variety of tooling on hand to handle hot jobs. If I am quoting a job, I absolutely will put tooling in the budget and buy accordingly. But you'll be hard pressed to find a REAL machine shop that doesn't have at least one drawer of most common taps, drills, counterbores, couuntersinks, inserts, end mills, and some HSS lathe tool bits. Because you need them a LOT.

Why the heck would you buy an Irwin tap single?? That's not even close to a good deal. Those taps ****. Yeah, a tap is 4 bucks vs 8 bucks but the 8 buck tap is actually a good tap. At least the Irwin tap set has the case, which is apparently more valuable than I gave it credit for.

This isn't even a budget thing. Good taps are NOT that much more in price than the ****** ones. Near as I can find, a 1/2-13 carbon steel Irwin Hanson 4 flute hand tap is about $10. A GOOD quality 1/2-13 spiral point TiN coated HSS tap is only $23 on McMaster. And McMaster is far from the cheapest option in town. 1/2" taps are also pretty decent size for a home shop. I would expect most home shop guys would be using taps that cost HALF that for the good stuff.

I have budgets. I can't just YOLO every time I buy tooling. My tooling HAS to make me money or it is a waste. Hobby **** doesn't even have to turn a profit. It is 100% loss. Maybe you can break even on repairs, but even then, you act like I just spend money willy nilly. I wouldn't advise people to spend money I wouldn't. Just because I have a machine shop doesn't make the economics of durable goods any different. The good stuff is less money in the long run because it lasts so much longer. I'd go out of business if I had to buy ****** tools and try to make money.

A good tap IS more money. But it is SO WORTH IT. No question. An average home shop might need a variety of let's say 30 taps. Let's say they average 10 bucks a pop (most taps under 1/2" are less). That's only $300 bucks for good tools. You'd spend that on a set from most of the big box stores, and those taps will be made of cheese compared to a TiN coated HSS tap.

The part that absolutely slays me on this is the good taps aren't that expensive. Guys will drop $30 on a case of ****** beer and piss it out in two hours, but a 1/2" tap that will last years is somehow too expensive? Give me a break...

I make pretty decent money removing the broken off carbon steel taps from various auto mechanics in my area. Each broken tap is a $100 bill in my pocket, as they take a couple minutes to get out with a welder or the mill. I then tap the hole with a HSS tap and hand them the part back. Done that enough times to pay for several tap sets.

In my experience, tap sets are a giant waste of money and they are targeted toward people who don't know any better. People come on here asking for advice, and then those of us who have been there, done that and got the tee shirt get **** on for telling people our opinions based on our experience. At the end of the day, its not my money, and I truly don't give two shits what people buy. Good luck, YMMV.

You contradict yourself...on the one hand you say there are thousands of kinds of taps and on the other hand you say you can buy a whole set in one transaction. With singles, you're still talking a lot of money versus a set that will cover a bunch of stuff off the bat. Not everyone wants to invest $1000+ and figure out how to build a fairly complete set when all they are doing is cleaning up holes and the occasional new thread.

Also, the guy isn't working in a machine shop yet you act like the machine shop methodology is the only acceptable one. He doesn't know day to day what equipment he is going to be fixing from dozens/hundreds of manufacturers, there's no way he can go into it knowing he has the right kit.

Nobody is saying good quality singles are bad, we're just saying realistically speaking for the normal NON MACHINIST, start with a set so you have your basis covered and then add what you need/wear out after that. A ****** carbon steel tap as you call them, will work a half dozen times just fine and if your technique ***** it doesn't matter if it's a really good tap or a junk tap, you're still going to break them.

The hollier than thou, when your use case is different, attitude needs to go.

 

[Zewnten]

A little more about my job. I work at a mine off the road system in Alaska, there's no 1 day shipping. I don't know I need something till equipment is broken and some times it needs to be up right away. I'm not buying for hobby projects that can sit for a week while tools come in. There are days I'm in the middle of one job, something breaks and I get pull off that job and on to an emergency job.


got a link to a set in stock?

Half the time I don't know I'll NEED something till I'm getting a call a piece of equipment is down. I work on everything including our port facility, crusher, mill, batch plants, water treatment plants, and everything in between. The mine owns some stuff though it's picked over/ not in an easy configuration to grab and go. We are allowed X amount of down time before it starts effecting our department's bonus. Running back to my tool box can eat up an hour plus so having everything together makes life easier when someone has changed 1 bolt of a different size than the rest. There's such a variety of equipment there's no common sizes/ threads. Grabbing the majority of my taps in 1-3 boxes makes it a lot easier. A kit is a good baseline for the more common stuff is what I want/ need. I use McMaster Carr bags for some of the odd stuff like bspp.

The plano boxes are an option, I have a ton at home. My experiance with them in the back of a jeep has been mixed, they don't always last.



I work at a mine off the road system in Alaska, there's no 1 day shipping. After it arrives in town it needs to get on the crew boat (personal packages under 8 pounds ship 2 days a week) or on the weekly barge (once a week). Piecing a set together from McMaster Carr of the economy carbon steel taps is roughly the same price as a kit. Working on mining equipment we use the bigger sizes often, my 15/16" wrench and socket (5/8" bolts) get used the most though my 1 1/8" stuff (3/4" bolts) get a decent workout as well, we have a lot of bigger metric stuff on our crushers.



Thanks, people don't realize the environment I work in. Many times I'm in my tool box in the morning to load up the truck, maybe at lunch to grab things I've forgotten, and at the end of the day to put things away. Some days I'm within 100 yards of my tool box all day. We don't have our own trucks with service beds, it's 2 crew cab flat beds for 7 mechanics so your tools aren't always packed and you don't do the same jobs day in day out.

The plano boxes might be an option and price wise it isn't much different.

I'll see what the snapon guy has to say about them offering a kit. Their warranty/ convenience is great for me. Most of my crew and myself stop by his shop on our go home day.


Back to the topic, does anyone know of a kit in stock or why Irwin is out of stock everywhere?

So Irwin has gotten kicked in the teeth over the last coupler years, cornwell has dropped them for a lot of items. Because of supply issues I think, dealer is complaining he can't get any drill bits warrantied for almost 18 months now. Snap On also dropped them or vise-versa, doesn't matter. SO dealer says it was supply issues, you may never see them back in stock for a long time.

You know, you’re allowed to buy more than one tap at a time.

Just go in the industrial supply, hand them a list of all the taps and dies in the set, and say: “One of each, please.” Then put them in a Plano tray or similar and presto! Tap and die set made from QUALITY taps and dies.

Find a quality place like Mccaster or a local welding shop, when your home, give them a list of sizes you want or would be the equivalent of any set you like and stick it in your choice of case. Might even be able to find a case from your SO dealer to stick them in. IMO that's the only realistic way you're going to get the sizes you want in a timely manner.

I have coworkers who've used the HF branded tap sets for chasing holes and haven't had a problem, but others broke a lot of them. So they "upgraded" to SO and then they don't break, but I think they either go easier on the taps or finally figured out how to tap correctly. Being as your working on equipment most of the time your going to be chasing threads almost any type of tap will work, at least that's what mine are mostly used for.

The majority of tool polishers that post on this site have no idea what is involved in field work and it sounds like you're situation is further different in not having a truck to keep your tools on so I get the grab and go aspect you're looking for. But sometimes like I said before those kits become more liability the reward if you don't have a good enviroment, ie work bench, to lay it out on.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Ok, there has been a handful of people in this thread post some really knowledgeable information and tips... there has been a very vocal group that has no idea what its talking about advocating for the opposite. The problem is that most of that group clearly doesn't understand that there are 3 main types of common taps and the differences and advantages of certain ones. The OP is working in a remote location (I also work in very remote locations) and I fully understand the issues with that.

First, here are the 3 main types of taps.

All sets come with only Plug taps. These things **** for hand tapping. Plug taps are a compromise and like most compromises do nothing well. A Tapper tap is way easier to hand thread, and it naturally self centers in a hole, unlike a plug tap. Its less likely to go in crooked and thus less likely to break. Bottom taps are the only way to fully thread a blind hole. If you are working remotely, and especially in the OP's case where he doesn't have access to put the part into a drills press or a mill, a Tapper tap is the best thing for hand tapping, and if he is dealign with blind holes he can follow it with a bottom tap. Plug taps are far from ideal for what he is doing.

Furthermore, Taps have improved greatly, Spiral point taps for through holes and Spiral flute for blind holes are by far the best thing going. They cut easier, and are way less likely to break as the force the chips out of the way. This is super important if you are working in a remote area. It's also easier on the hands as you are not fighting to break the chips each turn.

Most of what the OP is working with is going to be mostly Metric or Mostly SAE. Most likely its almost all Metric with a few exceptions for very common SAE sizes. As a mechanic he knows what wrenches he uses most, so its pretty easy to start with the thread sizes those coincide with... the taps missing from the sets the mine uses, is also a good indication of what he will need most often.

When buying taps, I only buy the spiral flute and spiral point versions now.. .they just work better, last longer and are less likely to break. I also always buy 3 of any tap any time I need one. They are cheap and its an insurance policy so I'm not F'd if I break one and cant get a replacement to quickly finish the job. If your hell set on buying a set, look around you can even find spiral point and spiral flutes in sets these days. Dont wait you money on the old style.

Finally if you are mostly working on metric, there is a few SAE sizes I would always have on hand such as ¼-20, 5/16-18 etc. I sure has hell wouldn't by a ¼-28 nor would I invest in a bunch of tiny tap sizes if I was mostly working with heavy machinery.

Finally if you are just trying to clean up threads, invest in a good thread chaser set. They do this job better than taps, and they will save the taps for when you truly need them.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Where did you get those magnificent trays and labels? Your set up would have saved me countless hours looking for stuff. Well done!

The trays are made by Schaller Corp. They are pretty cheap and work well. BOTT, makes the dividers for the new Festool stortainers. If I was to redo it, I'd try to find who is the NA distributor for BOTT and use their trays.... they are nicer, but clearly more $$$. The label where just done using my Brady label maker.

I like to keep the various taps, tap drill and die for each thread size together. It saves a ton of time looking for ****.

 

[dr_clyde]

You contradict yourself...on the one hand you say there are thousands of kinds of taps and on the other hand you say you can buy a whole set in one transaction. With singles, you're still talking a lot of money versus a set that will cover a bunch of stuff off the bat. Not everyone wants to invest $1000+ and figure out how to build a fairly complete set when all they are doing is cleaning up holes and the occasional new thread.

Also, the guy isn't working in a machine shop yet you act like the machine shop methodology is the only acceptable one. He doesn't know day to day what equipment he is going to be fixing from dozens/hundreds of manufacturers, there's no way he can go into it knowing he has the right kit.

Nobody is saying good quality singles are bad, we're just saying realistically speaking for the normal NON MACHINIST, start with a set so you have your basis covered and then add what you need/wear out after that. A ****** carbon steel tap as you call them, will work a half dozen times just fine and if your technique ***** it doesn't matter if it's a really good tap or a junk tap, you're still going to break them.

The hollier than thou, when your use case is different, attitude needs to go.

Eh, I frankly don’t care what you think of my attitude. OP asked my opinion. That’s my opinion. I’m not going to change it because you don’t like it.

OP is asking about taps used in field service on mining equipment. I wouldn’t be caught dead using anything less than top quality taps in a situation like that. Time is money, and the time it takes to remove a broken tap from a down machine that makes thousands of dollars a day more than justifies good taps.

Almost all taps sold in sets are ****. Why would you want that??? Spend a couple bucks more and buy the EQUIVALENT tap sizes from a reputable maker and be done with it. If you’re unable to handle not having a fitted case, buy the Irwin set, dump the taps in the trash and put good ones in the slots. There’s a time and place to be a cheapskate and taps ain’t it.

But, like I said before, it’s not my money, I don’t have to use the **** taps, and I don’t have the deal with the fallout if they break unless I’m getting paid to care.

I want to do things like a skilled professional if at all possible. Why wouldn’t I want to do things at the highest level available to me? If I want to know about how to cut meat, I’ll ask a butcher, not a guy who occasionally field dresses a deer. If I want to know about machining tools, I’ll ask a machinist.

Advice on this forum is free. You’re welcome to ignore me if you don’t like it but I’m not going to advise someone to do something I wouldn’t do.