Biscuit Joiner/Jointer

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I’m finding I have wanted this tool for some time now. I borrowed my buddy’s Porter Cable and find this tool to be indispensable. I started to look at my options I was surprised to find lumber/tool stores very limited. Some don’t even have them in stock. Our Lowe’s/Rona was limited to one choice a Dewalt. Home Depot had 4 corded models but again only the Dewalt was stocked. The other 3 were not sold in store but only on line. I found the biscuits also to be in a low stock or some sizes unavailable at certain locations. Could be the Covid situation.

Is it possible that anyone wanting a joiner has one already? Or is there some new tool available to get the job done?

I ordered a Makita PJ7000 from a tool supply company. From now on any corded tool purchases or replacements will either be Bosch or Makita.

 

[DHCrocks]

biscuit jointers are not all that popular now days. I too have a porter cable and it works just fine. Back in the day this was the brand to get before they went down the cheap junk sector of tools. The replacement superior tool now is the domino but then that ****** will set you back a grand kitted out not to mention the dominos are very pricy.

 

[Git]

Biscuit jointers still have a place and I use mine quite often. A lot of woodworkers have moved on to pocket holes or on the upper end - something like a Festool Domino that cuts pockets for loose tenons. I still have a couple of very nice, dowelling jigs like that come in handy from time to time. When it comes to Biscuits if you really want a high quality tool, you will need to look at one of the Lamello's. I have an older Lamello Top 21 that I would never get rid of

 

[slowtwitch73]

They are on their way out, that's why there's not many in stores. Craigslist is full of them.

 

[dogdog]

Why ? What is the new method of joining two piece of board 180deg

 

[turbowoodworker]

They may be on their way out, but I use my PC a lot. They’ve replaced dowels in my shop completely because of the speed and ease. With the high cost of the Festool dominos, I doubt the biscuit will be replaced. I still use full length splines on occasion but the biscuit is my go to.

 

[gnpenning]

While I don't use it everyday I love my Freud. You only get 90s and 45s with it, but it's accurate. I also have kreg and doweling jigs, each has its place depending on the work you do.

 

[TailGunner3000]

The biscuit joiner ( yes, it's joiner, not jointer. A jointer is a tool/machine that flattens one face of a piece of wood ) is not dead. But it was never really alive either. It's reason for existing is to to provide stability to pieces of wood being joined together. And it does that adequately within a large tolerance range. But there are better methods for doing the same thing. The biscuit connection leaves a lot of play within the joint, which means long boards require cawls to maintain an acceptable first level of joinery. But that same level can be achieved with a simple glue joint and cawls. So the biscuit step is redundant as a glue joint will last longer than the surrounding wood. And older, simpler woodworking techniques like grooves and splines can accomplish the same thing.

But the truth is the biscuit joint is so easy to create compared to things like splines and dowels that there's almost no reason not to use it in basic wood joining operations. There are times when external factors may degrade glue connections and having biscuits in place can be the difference between a joint failure and not.

 

[didit]

Still use mine when ever there is a need. It's a 25 year old occasional use tool that has paid for itself many times over. Looks like a Makita knockoff. I have been using it for doing hardwood floor replacement repairs, cutting new tongue & grooves where needed. I will use dowelling jigs and pocket screws or the biscuit cutter when ever it suits. Its nice to have options without laying out a lot of cash for something not used every day.

 

[rsanter]

I have the dewalt biscuit jointer and that thing is great.
This is the first thing I have heard of them being on their way out????
I have not see what has replaced them with the ease that they work

I stock biscuits that I get from amazon

 

[bob15]

I bought a used PC 557 on ebay. No complaints

 

[MushCreek]

I had one job I needed one for, so I bought a Harbor Freight. It works just fine, and I've since found many times to use it. If I were using it commercially, I'd spring for a better one, but mine works just fine. I guess I'd better stock up on biscuits before they become obsolete!

 

[gungatim]

LGR!

 

[slowtwitch73]

Why ? What is the new method of joining two piece of board 180deg

Kregg, Festool, probably some others.

 

[lardy1]

Nothing faster and easier for joining end grain in my shop. I use the #0 biscuits to join miter joints that wouldn't hold up at all simple glued. I keep reading about biscuit joiner obsolescence and I just don't see that at all.

 

[BigMike782]

Porter Cable 557 for me. The only one I could find with a fence that would do 135 degrees. It also does face frame biscuits. I don't use it a lot but when I need it it works great.

 

[Showkey]

Biscuit jointers still have a place and I use mine quite often. A lot of woodworkers have moved on to pocket holes or on the upper end - something like a Festool Domino that cuts pockets for loose tenons. I still have a couple of very nice, dowelling jigs like that come in handy from time to time. When it comes to Biscuits if you really want a high quality tool, you will need to look at one of the Lamello's. I have an older Lamello Top 21 that I would never get rid of

biscuit jointers are not all that popular now days. I too have a porter cable and it works just fine. Back in the day this was the brand to get before they went down the cheap junk sector of tools. The replacement superior tool now is the domino but then that ****** will set you back a grand kitted out not to mention the dominos are very pricy.

Agree biscuits have lost their popularity.........I have 30 year old Porter Cable and box of 1000 biscuits ......it does not get used much

I have doweling jig that gets used even less than the biscuits.

As far the lost popularity.........biscuits might help in assembly alignment but offer little in the joint strength over time. The other variable is in case work veneered plywood is used more. Biscuits are slow so production time/cost is part of the equation in a cabinet shop ( pro or hobby) .

 

[Git]

For me, this is where a biscuit joiner really shines - edging a plywood type top with hardwood

 

[neophyte]

Most of the relative points have been covered, but basically;

“High end” woodworking has mostly switched to the Festool Domino, since woodworkers who can afford it seem to like Festool, and because the wood connector pieces are available in both Beech wood, and Sipo wood and sipo is a “rot resistant” wood.
Biscuits for Biscuit Joiners have always bern a beech plywood, other than some specialty metal and plastic connectors, so the biscuits were never really appropriate for work that might get wet.
The Domino connectors also emulate the strength characteristics of traditional mortise and tenon joints( or at least gloating mortise and tenon joints) so the Domino joints should be stronger than Biscuit joints, even possibly when using weaker glues.
Festool now also manufactures an assortment of specialty connectors for the Domino slots, thereby bringing some of the same advantages of Biscuits yo the Domino joiner.
The domino wood connectors are also a fairly easy shape for a woodworker to make, in case they run out of connectors, or want a different wood for decorative reasons, ot maybe the just have a lot of time on their hands at the moment.

Otherwise, some woodworkers have switched to the Mafell Duo Dowel Joiners, which allow dowel joints to be done with the same ease as using a biscuit joiner or the Festool Domino.
Mafell enthusiasts think the dowell joints are as strong as biscuits or Domino joints.
While most Dowel connectors are also made from Beech wood, like the standard biscuit connectors and regular Domino connectors, rot resistant dowel stock is easy to purchase, and “pressed spiral grooved Black Locust Dowels with spiral grooves are also available from a few sources for those who need rot resistance.
The main issue with the Mafell machine is it costs more than the Festool Domino in the USA.

Biscuit joiners on the other hand have been around for decades.
The best were probably the Lamello made machines, followed by the Porter Cable 557(type 3 and 4 are probably the better versions if you search for used PC 557 machines), the Makita, and Virutex, and Dewalt, and maybe Mafell and Bosch if you’re in Europe.

Bosch and Elu also made “groover” joiners, that could be used to cut biscuit joints, but could also be used for making grooved joints you would glue a strip on wood or plywood in.
I don’t believe either machine is still in production, but the Elus sometimes turn up used in the USA, and more frequently turn up in Europe, along with the Bosch.

The main issue for biscuit joiners, was gluing solid wood, since biscuits cut horizontally on a vertical piece of wood( such as you might do for a bookshelf) will not have proper grain direction for a glue joint.
Basically, the biscuit joints wer designed more for plywood and reconstituted wood sheet goods than for solid wood, but the biscuits are excellent for the sheet goods.

Also, minor gripe, but Lamello discontinued the metal hinges they used to make.
Anybody know of a replacement?

 

[tarbellb]

The biscuit joiner ( yes, it's joiner, not jointer. A jointer is a tool/machine that flattens one face of a piece of wood ) is not dead. But it was never really alive either. It's reason for existing is to to provide stability to pieces of wood being joined together. And it does that adequately within a large tolerance range. But there are better methods for doing the same thing. The biscuit connection leaves a lot of play within the joint, which means long boards require cawls to maintain an acceptable first level of joinery. But that same level can be achieved with a simple glue joint and cawls. So the biscuit step is redundant as a glue joint will last longer than the surrounding wood. And older, simpler woodworking techniques like grooves and splines can accomplish the same thing.

But the truth is the biscuit joint is so easy to create compared to things like splines and dowels that there's almost no reason not to use it in basic wood joining operations. There are times when external factors may degrade glue connections and having biscuits in place can be the difference between a joint failure and not.

This ^^^


I dont see a biscuit joiner needing to be super nice. There may be some features for alignment or such that would be beneficial, but they are a crud machine.

Better glue joints, pockets holes, and the holy$grail Festool Domino are the substitutes.

 

[neophyte]

This ^^^


I dont see a biscuit joiner needing to be super nice. There may be some features for alignment or such that would be beneficial, but they are a crud machine.

Better glue joints, pockets holes, and the holy$grail Festool Domino are the substitutes.

The main point of the higher end biscuit joiners is precision alignment, which was a known and documented issue with some of the lower end machines.
If you go thru past tool tests from woodworking magazines, issues with alignment are even mentioned for certain machine models.

Lamello has always been the gold or platinum standard in regard to this.
The Porter Cable was also well regarded and tested highly.

The other issue separating biscuit joiners was the adjustability of the fence for different angles and wood thicknesses.

The Lamello Top 20/21 and the Porter Cable 557 were generally also the most adjustable for cutting weird angled joints, while keeping proper joint alignment.

The Virutex and Makita machines were known for being well machined, but less adjustable.

The Mafell and Bosch machines were supposedly well made and adjustable, but were also not sold extensively in the USA so I don’t have much knowledge of them.

The Elu grooving joiner and the Lamello Top 20/21 biscuit joiners can both adjust the cutter vertically a bit if you want to center the joiner for thin sheet goods so you can register the joiner off the flat base.
The Lamello has shim pieces that attach to the adjustable fence for thin materials you want to register off the adjustable fence( or if you want to quickly cut two separate grooves parallel to each other)

The adjustability comes in handy if you have to do a small number of awkward joints.
There are workarounds for most things, but they can be a pain if you want to get work done quickly.

When trying to assemble and clamp a bunch of pieces with quick setting glue, biscuit alignment is actually important.

Ryobi and Skil( when the brand was USA made) both also made biscuit joiners back in the day that were accurate, but the joiners were way less adjustable than the above models.

Also, some of the cheaper joiner models had less depth settings, so some of the fancy biscuit connectors couldn’t be used.
There are workarounds, but this can be annoying.

Another thing to note;
Porter Cable uses a 7/8” arbor on theirmachines, whereas Euro machines tend yo use 22mm.
The cutters are not compatible.

 

[Git]

This ^^^


I dont see a biscuit joiner needing to be super nice. There may be some features for alignment or such that would be beneficial, but they are a crud machine.

Better glue joints, pockets holes, and the holy$grail Festool Domino are the substitutes.

I would say some of the less expensive machines are a little crude, but when you get into something like a Lamello, it is extremely accurate. One click on the dial will move the blade up or down 1 mm. That feature really comes in handy for example when your doing face frame cabinets and you want the actual face frame to protrude on the sides so when you join two cabinets together, you can a nice clean, uniform fit.

I actually was going to buy a Duo Doweller but then a Domino came up on Amazon Warehouse at a too good of a price not to pass up.

This is an old video but shows what you can do with a good biscuit joiner

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

My buddies PC is also the 557 model. Have no idea if PC made other models or not buy that seems to be the prevalent model chatted about here. The Lamelo i would think was probably the Cadillac at the time. On our local Kijiji a Lamelo was the only joiner listed. Used it was about 3 times the amount I paid for the Makita.

I realize that with the Duo Doweller, Domino or even Kreg and others is newer technology. The biscuit is quick and handy. I like the idea of using it as a router. And to reinforce mitred corners.

I found some manufacturers list them interchangeably as either a joiner or a jointer. If I had said jointer someone would say no it’s a joiner and vice versa. Take a look at the pic Didit supplied and you will see what I mean.

Prior to this I would have cut a Rabbet, Halflap, Mited or whatever. Sometimes a simple glue and screw would suffice. The biscuit joints will be quick and easy.

Didit, I have a angle grinder that looks damn near the same as your biscuit tool. I’ve had it for years and sounds like it wants to fly apart. When it does it will owe me nothing and I will lay it to rest

I think biscuits will always have a spot, they are just too damn easy to use. If you think about dowels have been around forever and has a resurgence. I don’t even want to know about the Domino, just sounds expensive to me. I did notice Makita makes a cordless option, just saying.

I’m going to visit the carpenter that built our home when I was a kid. He’s got me about 15 years and I just reached out to him a couple of months ago. Was he surprised. I spent the summer being his gopher picked up a lot even then. He framed, finishing and built the cabinets on site with way less equipment than I have today. Learnt all about Philippine mahogany too.

Thanks you guys appreciate the input.

 

[The Cobbler]

I have a Freud. not used all that much but it shines when I need it. I originally purchased it to cut a groove for the latch when I had to install a bunch of cam locks in cabinets. the job paid for the biscuit joiner & then some.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Too bad we aren’t neighbours my buddy only has a Porter Cable.

 

[whateg01]

I had one job I needed one for, so I bought a Harbor Freight. It works just fine, and I've since found many times to use it. If I were using it commercially, I'd spring for a better one, but mine works just fine. I guess I'd better stock up on biscuits before they become obsolete!

Why do people who have a tool that haven't given them any problems and works as intended automatically assume that there's a better one?

 

[gungatim]

LGR

 

[lardy1]

I used my Porter-Cable on my current project. A coin bank that will get the glass set tomorrow. A gift for a friend that recently got her first grandchild (Ziggy). Those miters are all biscuit jointed. I don't have the knowledge or tools to do things like this any other way.

 

[jar944]

I have a dewalt, its ok. I also have a domino.

I should have just paid the $$ for a lamello. (Still debating a lamello zeta P2 $$$$$$)

Why, precision. I expect machined surfaces on adjustable parts, not as cast.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I used my Porter-Cable on my current project. A coin bank that will get the glass set tomorrow. A gift for a friend that recently got her first grandchild (Ziggy). Those miters are all biscuit jointed. I don't have the knowledge or tools to do things like this any other way.


Lardy that is a nice job. Plenty of experience from the number of joints required. Just wondering for the glass inset cut did you use a router or your jointer?


Jarr944
Yikes I don't even want to know what 6$s translate into. Wonder if Lamello started the whole biscuit thing.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

I bought my PC 557 biscuit jointer off CL locally. Paid $75 a few years ago. Came with the case, both cutters and a ton of different sized biscuits. I love it and believe the PC is one of the better rated biscuit jointers. I see on average 1-2 PC biscuit jointers come up on CL here locally a month. I'd try to be patient and see what you can find on CL. Good luck.

 

[jar944]

I used my Porter-Cable on my current project. A coin bank that will get the glass set tomorrow. A gift for a friend that recently got her first grandchild (Ziggy). Those miters are all biscuit jointed. I don't have the knowledge or tools to do things like this any other way.


Lardy that is a nice job. Plenty of experience from the number of joints required. Just wondering for the glass inset cut did you use a router or your jointer?


Jarr944
Yikes I don't even want to know what 6$s translate into. Wonder if Lamello started the whole biscuit thing.

Lamello did invent biscuits.

The zeta p2 is about $1650.

 

[lardy1]

Lardy that is a nice job. Plenty of experience from the number of joints required. Just wondering for the glass inset cut did you use a router or your jointer?

Thank you for the compliment. The (plexi)glass and the plywood back both set into a simple rabbet on both the front and back of the pieces. I used my router table and a straight bit for that. I didn't do it in long runs but rather I finished dry fitting all the pieces before I cut that in. The router table was easier than all those small pieces on a tables saw.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Picked up my Makita PJ700, looking forward it using it.

 

[rharman]

I have a Craftsman that I bought YEARS ago. Would not think of parting with it. When you need it, you need it. Used it on picture frames, drawer construction, etc.