Black ceiling? Affect on lighting?
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techieman33
Well-known member
It will be a noticeable reduction in overall lighting. Light bounces off every surface it hits. It'll leave the light and then bounce off the floors, walls, tools, dust, and yes even the ceiling. A black ceiling will absorb a lot more light than a white or other light color would.
KillNThrill24
Well-known member
Agreed with techie. You'll lose a lot of light in a shop that size if you paint the ceiling black. I'm a huge fan of black. Most of my cars are black, most of my furniture is black, 99.9% of my clothes are black, and I even go for black tool boxes. But in a shop, where you really want to be able to see what you're working on, the brighter you can go the better.
Sent from my Note 9 using The Garage Journal mobile app
Sent from my Note 9 using The Garage Journal mobile app
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
Black ceiling = 0% reflectance vs White ceiling = 70% reflectance in 60x80x16 results in 12% loss @ 30" work plane.
It takes 35 16,000 lumen fixtures to hit 100fc @ 30" workplane in a 60x80x16 room with white ceilings (70% reflectance).
It takes 35 19,000 lumen fixtures to hit 100fc @ 30" workplane in a 60x80x16 room with black ceilings (0% reflectance) - or you could install 40 16,000 lumen fixtures.
It takes 35 16,000 lumen fixtures to hit 100fc @ 30" workplane in a 60x80x16 room with white ceilings (70% reflectance).
It takes 35 19,000 lumen fixtures to hit 100fc @ 30" workplane in a 60x80x16 room with black ceilings (0% reflectance) - or you could install 40 16,000 lumen fixtures.
kylefitz
Well-known member
I’m sure you have answered this before but what is the reflectance level of an open rafter cealing? I’m getting ready to light a 40x70 unfinished polebarn with the typical white tin all the way around. I have been using 50/50/20 for the reflectance levels. Does that put me in the right ballpark?
Thank you for all your help. I installed 9 of the maxlight housing with led bulbs in my 20x25 garage and it’s actually brighter then daylight in there!
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
That will depend on what kind of work you're doing in there...personally I can't imagine how I'd get the ceiling dirty, maybe if you're running a diesel engine in there or something.
I watched the RR video mentioned where they put in a black ceiling in a pole building; it did look nice, but it wasn't the greatest for lighting.
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
kylefitz - I use a reflectance value of 20 for raw wood. I wouldn't go any higher than that for an unfinished open ceiling.
I didnt know if the lack of light was because most of the time they never had the lights on and they didnt look like that bright of light anyways.
sz0k30
Well-known member
Walk into any bar & see how great black ceilings are for light. In a pole barn/garage/work area you want & need as much light as possible.
I've had a black ceiling in half of my old 25x35. I liked it for the same dirt reasons, plus hides ceiling imperfections and draws youre eyes downward. Old ceiling got filthy dusty real fast.
Dont have any scientific numbers, but it seemed like about 15/20% darker with the black.
I epoxied the floor a desert tan color and that pretty much made up the difference in lighting from the old white ceiling/concrete floor to the new black ceiling/tan floor.
Its pretty well a wash now, maybe still slightly darker but its worth the tradeoff to me.
Also painted mine with a gloss black, since it was some old stuff I had on hand. Maybe slightly more shine reflected.
Dont have any scientific numbers, but it seemed like about 15/20% darker with the black.
I epoxied the floor a desert tan color and that pretty much made up the difference in lighting from the old white ceiling/concrete floor to the new black ceiling/tan floor.
Its pretty well a wash now, maybe still slightly darker but its worth the tradeoff to me.
Also painted mine with a gloss black, since it was some old stuff I had on hand. Maybe slightly more shine reflected.
wssix99
Well-known member
You've been in places like this before. Commercial buildings use this treatment all the time. If you paint the ceilings black, all you need to do is add a gorilla and your garage will look exactly like a Rainforest Cafe:
Add some video games, and you become Dave & Busters:
This treatment puts emphasis on the "things" arranged on the floor that occupy the space. It's a horrible light to work under. In a garage, it might be fine for a showroom type of arrangement, if you want people to come in and "see" the cars but it wouldn't be the optimal choice for working on them.
Add some video games, and you become Dave & Busters:
This treatment puts emphasis on the "things" arranged on the floor that occupy the space. It's a horrible light to work under. In a garage, it might be fine for a showroom type of arrangement, if you want people to come in and "see" the cars but it wouldn't be the optimal choice for working on them.
You've been in places like this before. Commercial buildings use this treatment all the time. If you paint the ceilings black, all you need to do is add a gorilla and your garage will look exactly like a Rainforest Cafe:
Add some video games, and you become Dave & Busters:
This treatment puts emphasis on the "things" arranged on the floor that occupy the space. It's a horrible light to work under. In a garage, it might be fine for a showroom type of arrangement, if you want people to come in and "see" the cars but it wouldn't be the optimal choice for working on them.
lol, that is true, but also those place have dim lighting on purpose. I will probably just go with white, i just dont like how dingy it looks when dirty. With 16foot side wall and scissor trusses the ceilings are pretty high, I didnt know how dark it would really make it with some bright high bay lighting.
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
Originally I was going for a black ceiling in my garage. I was looking for the contrast from conduit, BX cabling etc. Thought it would look great. Then for a couple of reasons I will be going white. Light refraction and dust and dirt. To me when black gets covered in dust and dirt it will be more noticeable. The same amount of dust etc on white not so noticeable. I don’t like doing a lot of dusting
Shiftless
Well-known member
Originally I was going for a black ceiling in my garage. I was looking for the contrast from conduit, BX cabling etc. Thought it would look great. Then for a couple of reasons I will be going white. Light refraction and dust and dirt. To me when black gets covered in dust and dirt it will be more noticeable. The same amount of dust etc on white not so noticeable. I don’t like doing a lot of dusting
Dusting in my garage only takes a few seconds. Just open the 16 foot wide door, plug it in, and hit the on button.
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CGT80
Well-known member
Add holy water or a bible to that black ceiling and you have a church, or workout equipment and get a gym. Yes, black is common in commercial applications.
I agree with using a light color.
On a similar but different note, I added an led t5 style light to the top of my little garage (open rafters) and it makes it look much bigger and brighter. Before, the lights were just over the work benches at about the 6' level as the upper section is just storage. I'm only 5'7", so it is just tall enough for me to work with a welding helmet on. I would like to finish of the inside of the little garage with insulation and drywall with light paint to bounce more light around in the area..........but, it isn't structurally sound and I don't want to get into permits to fix it, yet I do construction work for a living so it kills me that I don't have a good plan to repair it and make it nice.
I agree with using a light color.
On a similar but different note, I added an led t5 style light to the top of my little garage (open rafters) and it makes it look much bigger and brighter. Before, the lights were just over the work benches at about the 6' level as the upper section is just storage. I'm only 5'7", so it is just tall enough for me to work with a welding helmet on. I would like to finish of the inside of the little garage with insulation and drywall with light paint to bounce more light around in the area..........but, it isn't structurally sound and I don't want to get into permits to fix it, yet I do construction work for a living so it kills me that I don't have a good plan to repair it and make it nice.
We paint (dryfall) a lot of ceilings black/dark grey colors. Office space, Harley dealer, restaurant, etc. I don't do the lighting design (we're just Construction Managers) but those spaces never feel darker than we if we were to paint them a lighter color. I will dig p some pictures if you want.
If you want it, do it. If it's not bright enough, add more lights. It's your space.
If you want it, do it. If it's not bright enough, add more lights. It's your space.
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
Reducing reflective surfaces increases shadows. Fine for a man cave, but not for a functional workshop. Additionally, in a workshop I would find the high contrast between bright lights against a black ceiling optically annoying.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
wssix99
Well-known member
The main thing that draws one's eye is the truck - that's the effect.
Exactly.
It's fine if one wants the effect that it gives. Infinite space above, highlighted objects in the space, and shadows. (As Platonic Solid points out.)
The lights seem to get more dim every birthday I have... It's almost like the light bulbs have birthdays, also.