Black Pipe or Rapid Air

[camnick]

I am getting close to run air lines in my barn. My barn is 60x80x16 and the compressor is in a corner. I need to run air down both 80' sides. I'm going to run the lines inside the walls and ceiling. I am looking at both black pipe and Rapid Air. I'm trying to decide which would be easier to run, cheaper, and last longer. I figured I would need 1" pipe, so I wouldn't lose much pressure in the opposite corner. I found some black pipe that is: 1"X10' BLACK PIPE // SCH 40 MPT at Menards. Is this the correct pipe to use? Lots of questions.

 

[Scremes]

At my job we use 1" black. I have helped friends install black pipe, PVC (yes PVC), and copper (commercial grade which is thicker). I have the rapid air which has worked. I would say here are pluses and minuses for them all. Black pipe you will have to hav a filter for the rust and particle that form in the pipe. Some people have had problem with sealing the rapid system since it is a gator type connector. Rapid is very easy and maybe a combination of the two (black & rapid) would work. Oh and you'd probably get by with 1/2-3/4 pipe closer you where you need to end you're connections. Good luck.

 

[camnick]

Do you get that much rust from the Black Pipe?

 

[buzz4041]

Use Galvanized pipe instead of black pipe and it will last you a lifetime. I install instrument air systems in plants all over the world and it is done either in galvanized pipe or stainless steel tubing.

 

[TWX]

Do you get that much rust from the Black Pipe?

Yes. As one compresses air, water is introduced into the system, and that water is still proportionate to the air brought in. If ambient air at sea level is about 14psi, then a compressor running 140psi is 10x more air, and 10x more water in the air. That's a lot of water to attack pipe.

I'm still trying to determine what I'm going to use on my own system when it's time to replace the PVC that was already here, but I'm leaning away from black pipe for this very reason. I still want something hard, cheap, and not too brittle, but I need to avoid the problem of rust, even here in the desert southwest.

I suppose that a black pipe system with a design allowing for the whole thing to be drained out periodically wouldn't be too bad, or using something to separate the water as the air leaves the compressor...

 

[Shadowdog500]

I'm still trying to decide myself but look into air install practices such as running the air supply as a loop all the way around your building like the factories do. This allows less pressure loss at high CFM since it feeds air using two paths from the compressor. Since you are running down both sides tying the far ends together will be easy.

Slope the pipe slightly toward the far corner of the shop from the compressor and put a drip leg to drain water out of the lines. Only take air feed lines out of the top of the distribution pipe to minimize picking up water from the bottom of the line like a drip leg would get. Whenever I see the rapid air page that drives me nuts because they t down in the air supply which feeds water to your air tools.

I like the idea of rapid air but I wonder how quickly the air cools to let the water vapor condense back into water. The first water seperator and air pickup should be after that point. Black pipe only takes about 25 feet to cool the air sufficiently. I was even thinking about possibly running the first 30 feet or so in copper to cool the air then tying that into a rapid air system
to complete the rest of the distribution.

There is more to consider so research the install practices online.

 

[BADSIX]

i think water in your system is relitive to the humidity
use galv. pipe check with a steel supplier in your area it might be cheeper

 

[Jawn]

I'm still trying to decide myself but look into air install practices such as running the air supply as a loop all the way around your building like the factories do. This allows less pressure loss at high CFM since it feeds air using two paths from the compressor. Since you are running down both sides tying the far ends together will be easy.

Why didn't I think of that... great idea!

 

[kwb]

I don't like proprietary systems - I vote black pipe.
Used in industry everywhere for eons and rust is not a problem if you keep the outlet of tank away from input of compressor and drain the tank regularly.

My black iron is ~8yrs no rusty stuff coming out of it, dad's is 20yrs at the house, his shop (20hp two stage, ~200gallon tankage, system run at ~140psi 5-6days/week) before he retired had sections that were coming up on 40yrs. None of those had a dryer in the system either.

Who knows where rapid air will be 10yrs from now but I guarantee I can go anywhere and get 3/4" NPT fittings.

I would consider Copper depending on where prices are at it can be cheaper than black iron (which is a more stable price)

 

[PurdueSD]

Black pipe was the choice for me... I chose it for a variety of reasons.

Here is a single post from my build thread on it if youre interested.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=998584&postcount=217

 

[Al Bundy]

Black pipe is the best choice. You will not have any problems with rust if you install it properly. And it's also the most economical choice. If you are running 80' you can use 3/4" you won't really need 1". Larger diameter equals less pressure. If you need more volume use larger pipe. Check out TPtools website for detailed instructions on how to install your lines. But don't buy their kits, they're too much money.

 

[Thruxton]

I used black pipe in my first permanent install here and will not re-use it - I will use galvanized instead. Way to much rust in the black. The stories about the problem with galvanized flaking are, I think, a hangover from a long time ago, when it did.

 

[CARS]

I used black pipe, but I do body work so I have plenty of filter stages. Never noticed any rust.

I wouldn't be to quick to recommend galvanized pipe. There are different "qualities" of the coating. The fittings I get from my plumber look as new as the day I got them. The fittings from the big box stores are rusty after a couple years. If you get USA made pipe and fittings I think you will be just fine. China steel is junk no matter what they try to cover it with. I wonder if it is really galvanized or some sort of paint?

 

[Al Bundy]

I used black pipe in my first permanent install here and will not re-use it - I will use galvanized instead. Way to much rust in the black. The stories about the problem with galvanized flaking are, I think, a hangover from a long time ago, when it did.

The reason you had rust is because your lines were not properly installed allowing condensate to remain in them.

The flaking from galvanized is a modern occurrence as well. Check the shelves at your local HD, you'll find it on their brand new stock.

 

[sberry]

It would be 3/4 for me, regulate at points of use.

 

[Falcon67]

I use black pipe and try to set up the system to take as much moisture out before it hits the long lines. I use drip lines on all drops and have a portable oiler/watetrap/regulator and a portable watertrap/regulator that I move around to where ever I need it. There is a dedicated watertrap/regulator at the mill/lathe.

1" is fine, 3/4" would be plenty. you can run 100' or more with 1/2" with minimal pressure drop.

 

[sberry]

I will agree 1/2 is plenty in most shops especially if one pumps hi pressure to point of use regs, 3/4 isn't all that much more $, 1 inch becomes more difficult. Only places that really need big air mains are truck type shops with big impacts, even a 3/8 hose will run a common comp down with rotary tools, sanding etc. They just don't need the "burst" like heavy impact does.

 

[Wayne64SS]

Black pipe was the choice for me... I chose it for a variety of reasons.

Here is a single post from my build thread on it if youre interested.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=998584&postcount=217

what hose reels are those? I need to get a set of the self retractors and am looking for decent ones. How do you like them?

 

[saabman]

I have run black pipe in each of the garages I have equipped for air. My current garage features 3/4 inch runs 10 ft up around the perimeter and 1/2 inch drops at key locations. Filters and pressure regulators at each drop.

 

[Thruxton]

I have run black pipe in each of the garages I have equipped for air. My current garage features 3/4 inch runs 10 ft up around the perimeter and 1/2 inch drops at key locations. Filters and pressure regulators at each drop.

Pretty much what I have done, and will repeat with galv. But I didn't reply to kick this old horse again, just to say how neat Sonett's are! I've had two (well, one was a parts car) and they are great fun. Half the horsepower of a Harley with twice the weight, and one of the weirdest weight distributions of any car. Tons of fun on Central NY's snow covered roads, just stick your foot in it and steer

 

[akdiesel]

I use black pipe and try to set up the system to take as much moisture out before it hits the long lines.
1" is fine, 3/4" would be plenty. you can run 100' or more with 1/2" with minimal pressure drop.

This is the key. Get it on the start of your air supply. Your air tank is your best trap inline and a good auto drain will get most of your water out.
3/4" seems to be the standard for most residential and some commercial set ups. The cost for an air dryer / filters can be more than a good pipe install, so as you are saving you pennies for the dryer system your other parts are subject to the water. Some type of liquid extractor and filter should be used regardless of what type of piping you are using to also aid in protecting the tools and equipment.

 

[PurdueSD]

what hose reels are those? I need to get a set of the self retractors and am looking for decent ones. How do you like them?

It is goodyear branded. I picked it up from a local farm store called Rural King for 100 bucks. It came with 50 feet of good hose and doesnt leak. I cant complain, its been great. Im sure its some offshore brand goodyear whored its name on.

 

[saabman]

I run one wall mounted self retracting hose reel, and one on the ceiling between my 2 lifts (I have a electrical cord reel next to the ceiling air reel). I have a milton fittings for tool hookups. I use a common dryer/regulator for a waist high wall mounted tool drop, and run a regulated line up to the hose reels. Plan your reels and drops in advance and you can save some bucks on dryers and regulators.

 

[keen]

I just picked up a roll of blue pex ($25 100 feet) and used Gator Bite (more or less the same type of connection that Rapid and the like use) fittings available at the same big box store I got the pex from. (though they stopped selling blue lately, it's still easy to come by).

pex doesn't have the disadvantages of pvc - pvc explodes as shrapnel when it bursts. pex, at worst, just splits and leaks.

Two+ years and still going so far. Sure, it's for water. And sure, it's only "rated" to ~100psi. But I only run 90psi most of the time. Occasionally if I'm really beating on an impact I'll bump the line pressure up to 150 or so for a few minutes. (I do have some pressure reduced drops, too).


(black pipe in florida just == rust. )

 

[Greatbear]

The black pipe I installed in my garage over 15 years ago is still working perfectly.

 

[Kit]

I just finished running black pipe. It was chinese and what a pita. Damn near every joint leaked and I used two different pipe joint compounds. Finally used a thick teflon tape and got them sealed and not leaking.

I built it along the lines from TP..http://www.tptools.com/p/2035,114_Modular-Metal-Piping-Kits.html

Quincy compressor is inside the garage...moisture shouldn't be a problem....run is 48' and downslopes 2" to the end. Lots of ball valves and treated each line as a single run.

Will post a picture when I can figure out this phone....

 

[CARS]

It was chinese and what a pita. Damn near every joint leaked and I used two different pipe joint compounds.

Ya, I have a friend who is a plumber and while he could have got pipe for me, I chose to save a few bucks and went to Menards for the pipe.

He laughed at the thread just by looking at them. I guess in the end it cost me more because I had to buy a bunch of beer to have him re-thread the china pipe.

 

[A_Pmech]

Copper.

 

[csp]

I found some black pipe that is: 1"X10' BLACK PIPE // SCH 40 MPT at Menards. Is this the correct pipe to use? Lots of questions.

Get it from a plumbing supply house and you can get 20' sticks and better quality. I would use 3/4" if it were mine.

 

[Ign]

I don't like proprietary systems - I vote black pipe.
Used in industry everywhere for eons and rust is not a problem if you keep the outlet of tank away from input of compressor and drain the tank regularly.

This. RapidAir and others are targeting a niche market of people who have more money than skills.