black pipe or trac pipe

[SM1]

Hi Everyone, How much pressure will I lose with csst instead of black pipe I have 26ft. to run the csst will make it a little easier but I can't afford to lose much pressure the black pipe would have three elbows is it a trade off. Thanks

 

[Steevo]

What??
Why does 26ft of pipe have anything to do with pressure loss?

 

[SM1]

Oh OK I thought I read somewhere that you will lose some pressure with csst because the inside isn't smooth, so that's not the case right?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Oh OK I thought I read somewhere that you will lose some pressure with csst because the inside isn't smooth, so that's not the case right?

Wrong. All gas pipe will lose pressure along the gas stream based on the inlet pressure, pipe size, fitting placement, pipe wall conditions, pipe material, and most importantly required gas flow. Your question is meaningless without knowing what the load is at the end of the 26' of pipe.

In general though, on a run of that length you should fine on flow if you upsize your pipe one size from whatever the inlet size is on the appliance. For example, if you have a 1/2" inlet on your appliance, go with the next larger pipe size over to the appliance and then reduce just before the appliance. That should work on all but the longest lengths of pipe (say 100 feet or more).

If you can use black pipe, I would do so. I'm not an expert on CSST, but I've been doing some research on it for work. The national fuel code does talk about CSST, but with little detail. It does specifically say that CSST can only be installed in accordance with manufacturer's directions. 2 things I have noted on the CSST brands I have studied.

1. All require the installer to be licensed by the manufactuer. So if you aren't, your installation, even if it's perfect, suddenly is in violation of the fuel code.

2. All require grounding to help mitigate lightning strikes, which have caused some fires in CSST installations.

My understanding, so far, is the CSST has to be grounded with a minimum #6 wire to the buildings main electrical ground.

As long as you go with a currently licensed installer you should be fine. The documentation I've seen from Pro-Flex (for instance) says the installer has to be licensed by them. That means someone with a wardflex license couldn't install Pro-flex, I guess.

Like I said...I don't know much about it yet, but what I do know worries me a bit. Black pipe is the proven solution.

Phil

 

[SM1]

Thanks for the clarification I'll stick to black pipe.

 

[Identaltech]

I thing I would worry about is leaks.
I have had it happen.
the csst was ran in a wall with steel studs and when we installed a cabinet on that wall the screw went right into the csst tube.
the ceiling tile installer was still working and he smelled the gas.
lucky for us.
first off I would think this is a code violation running it in the wall but I seen it done all the time.
if it was black pipe its no way it would have leaked.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I thing I would worry about is leaks.
I have had it happen.
the csst was ran in a wall with steel studs and when we installed a cabinet on that wall the screw went right into the csst tube.
the ceiling tile installer was still working and he smelled the gas.
lucky for us.
first off I would think this is a code violation running it in the wall but I seen it done all the time.
if it was black pipe its no way it would have leaked.

Saw the same sort of issue at a nursing home. They ran CSST through the roof trusses and a year later managed to put a screw through it while replacing part of the roof. One 911 call later they were redoing the whole thing with black pipe.

CSST is designed to go in walls. But there are some steps that are supposed to be taken to protect it from nail or screw punctures. I think the problem may be that people just don't think about it. When I recently hung cabinets in my garage, I took down enough of my interior siding to see where all the wires went from the switch boxes and electrical boxes. I think most people would.

But they might not think about looking for CSST to a heater in the garage corner.

Phil

 

[tcianci]

I know the plumber I use routinely installs TracPipe for natural gas. He never mentioned having to be licensed or certified by the manufacturer. One thing is for sure, unless you cut the material correctly, you are looking for trouble with the connections. And, it does need to be protected with nail plates when going through framing and you can not have a termination or transition from TracPipe to black iron that is hidden behind any kind of finish. The stories of penetrations through the material are pretty easy to believe. I have seen plenty of fasteners put into tougher stuff than TracPipe.

 

[A_Pmech]

I had this decision to make last winter, when I installed the gas plumbing in my house. I researched the flexible gas tube and I WAS NOT impressed. My Propane supplier told me the same thing.

I went the black pipe route. However, I couldn't find American pipe anywhere. So, I had to use Chinese pipe, which was OK, other than having thread tearing problems when using a NEW Ridgid pipe threader.

I ended up threading every joint on the lathe, which produced a superior result.

You don't say whether this is for Natural Gas or Propane. If this is a Propane installation, the flow tables for various plumbing is listed in Rego's LP Gas Serviceman's Manual, available for download online.

Have fun!

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I know the plumber I use routinely installs TracPipe for natural gas. He never mentioned having to be licensed or certified by the manufacturer. One thing is for sure, unless you cut the material correctly, you are looking for trouble with the connections. And, it does need to be protected with nail plates when going through framing and you can not have a termination or transition from TracPipe to black iron that is hidden behind any kind of finish. The stories of penetrations through the material are pretty easy to believe. I have seen plenty of fasteners put into tougher stuff than TracPipe.

SECTION 1.0 — USER WARNINGS
The TracPipe® gas piping material (CSSTCorrugated
Stainless Steel Tubing ) must
only be installed by a qualified person who
has been trained or otherwise qualified
through the TracPipe Gas Piping
Installation Program. Any installer must also
meet qualifications in accordance with state
and/or local requirements as established by
the administrative authority which enforces
the plumbing or mechanical code where the
gas piping is installed.

Page 1 of the Tracpipe user manual.

Phil