Black water pipe vs Copper for air line?

[Lyaec350]

Why does everyone on here use copper, it seems like it is a lot more expensive than black steel pipe, and is much harder to install and seal up (soldering vs tapered threads). Is there any problem with going with black pipe? I would install a water trap right after the compressor, and drip legs on every drop so water in the lines should be that big a deal should it?

 

[6768rogues]

Personally, I think copper is much easier and is lighter so it is easy to install. Soldering it together is a snap, compared to using pipe wrenches. Custom lengths do not need to be threaded, either.

 

[rsanter]

copper, steel, aluminum, and some flexableable plastic are code for compressed air lines. ABS (black) and PVC are not.
with that said, if you want to use plastic pipe I would encourage sch80

bob

 

[Lyaec350]

copper, steel, aluminum, and some flexableable plastic are code for compressed air lines. ABS (black) and PVC are not.
with that said, if you want to use plastic pipe I would encourage sch80

bob

It's going to be copper or steel, NOT plastic.

 

[Lloydthumper]

Regular black pipe will rust from the inside out sometimes sending rust to your air tools. Galvnized pipe would be a better choice but it is more expensive. We've tried to run Black pipe for air lines where I work and they didn't do to well.
We usually run black pipe for gas lines where moisture isn't a problem. Trust me if there is a cheaper way that will work just as good I will try it but sometimes cheaper cost more in the long run.

 

[larry4406]

I ran black pipe. Copper was too expensive and I have a pipe threading equipment. I ran 1 inch as the main line from the compressor, went vertical up and into the ceiling (about 12 feet), ran along the ceiling to the back of the shop (this 28 foot run is pitched towards the compresser), then dropped down the back wall of the shop to about 3 feet off the floor, then ran laterally the width of the shop (50 feet and turned the corned and came back the side wall another 25 feet) and pitched the pipe downwards at a 1/4 inch per foot. At the end of the line I have a 1 inch ball valve to blow down the entire line. All point of use taps are tee'd upward off the pitched main and then 90'd toward the shop interior. This way I have one drain line/valve for the whole system. Other schemes have you mount the main up high, tee up and then come down into a drip leg so each tap is a dead leg with a blow off valve. Since my piping is in the wall and behind sheet rock, I did not want blow off valves sticking thru the wall at knee height as this presents problems with cabinets/storage. I have point of use taps every 6 feet at a height of 4 feet.

Would be happy to post pictures of what I did, but the pdf's I have are all 950+kb and the file limit is like 19kb. Can some one tell me how to overcome this/reduce the files?

 

[russlaferrera]

+1 for copper. I have both, the steel rusts from the inside and because I do not use air every day it rusts more. Copper is very easy to work with. It has to be clean, fluxed and the fittings heated all around, until the solder melts on the fitting and flows all 360* around the fitting. Moving the torch around the fitting will help (do not melt the solder with the flame) and it will work like textbook.

IMO ,try a fitting or two it's a skill that most DYI people should know how to do even if you opt for pipe.

Cost ? I never added the cost difference between pipe and copper. Copper tube costs more ...but when you add the price of all the fittings and valves it may be closer that you think.

The final point of copper. When you give up your hobby you will get more $$ for scrap. OK thats not a good point..

 

[Goobzilla]

Black iron pipe and a pipe threader for me. At least I got my shop done a few years ago before steel prices went nuts.

 

[turbojimmy]

I used galvanized steel. So far (8 years) I haven't seen any rusty water collecting in the moisture-collector-thingy (whose name escapes me at the moment).

Jim

 

[sixty4]

Galvinized is what we set up commerical garages with. Use drip legs with ball valves with a hose adapter on the drips. Use a air/water separator to ensure any moisture not caught at the drip legs.

 

[crowldawg]

I was going to use galvanized until I saw the price .Black pipe is about half the cost of galvanized. I just paid over $3.00 for a 1/2" 90.When i asked why so much the answer was that the Chinese were buying up everything. **** the elbow had china stamped on it!

 

[fourfeathers]

I used sch 80 pvc, I know, I know, but it's been fine for me for 10 years. I will change it as I find the time. Not endorsing it, but more of a confession.

Menard's has some "cheater" solder rings for those of us that **** at plumbing. They sell bags of a ring like solder piece that you stick in the joint after cleaning and fluxing both pcs. Probably cheesy, but it works. If it makes it easier for you to use the "right" line product, then it's cool.

 

[raffaelli]

What is the problem with using PVC?

 

[TNToy]

People are afraid it'll shatter, sending deadly shrapnel across the entire county.

 

[hick]

People are afraid it'll shatter, sending deadly shrapnel across the entire county.

its true... i only know because of a week at the lake and potatoe cannon... the resulters were not pretty, still have a few scars from some shrapnel that hit me and i was standing a good 20 feet back

i will admit it was stupid, we had the pressure WAY to high and part of goal was to see what it took to blow it up... but thats only half of it. once it cracks, the blows up. not only that but if a fitting is what comes loose you have a potential cannon ball getting fired right at you








as for my two cents




When we built our wood shop we used copper, partly because my step dad is a plumber and worked the local hard ware store with a discount

We also choose copper due to the ability of easily adding in a line some where. our shop's first lay out was not suiting us so we redesigned it and it was as simply as unbolting the brackets holding it to the ceiling, using a pip cutting and soldering in a "T". If you decide to use black pipe... dear god i can only image trying to add in some thing...

We also went with copper cause we had plans to build a larger shed a few feet from the garage and wanted it serviced with power. we decided that since we had the trench open we could throw some copper in there. black pipe you couldn't do that cause of the rust and mositure in the ground. we jsut put mositure filter right before the line to the shed and we haven't had water issues since

As mentioned before with black pipe, is threading

you are either restricted to placement by purchasing off the wall peices, having to plan every thing inadvance, get it all cut and threades ahead of time and hope to god you didn't miss a 1/4 inch some where.... or spend most of your time running back and forth to the hardware store to get every piece fitted

copper although more expensive saves ALOT of head aches and alot of time. Its a very good trade off

oh and also, seeing as how you soldering new copper lines with no water in them, soldering is a snap and skill easily picked up. worst case you crank the air on and a few joints leaks... shut the air down and toss some solder on them and retry... you cross thread black pipe or some thing.....don't even want to image that

 

[Franz©]

The problem with PVC is this country is full of scared shitless pantiwastes, insurance carriers, lawyers, phoney expert witnesses, and PVC shards don't show up worth a damn on Xeays or MRIs. They're easy enough to find with a CAT scan though.

Black iron pipe is a superior grade of pipe to galvanize, it doesn't have the zink coating to fill microporoscity. If you have condensation in your black iron air line it's because it wasn't properly pitched when it was installed.

Copper is fine, unless you listen to the ******** artists er I mean paint problem experts from DuPont or PPG. Then again, I sold all my copper for $2.80 a pound a few months back.

 

[Lyaec350]

PVC shards don't show up worth a damn on Xeays or MRIs. They're easy enough to find with a CAT scan though.

Mmm, I don't understand why PVC would not show up on plainfilm or MRI yet be visible on CT...?

 

[Franz©]

Mmm, I don't understand why PVC would not show up on plainfilm or MRI yet be visible on CT...?

According to the overpriced photographer (radiologist) I talked to wound tracking with a CAT scan allows the photographer to locate objects that fail to bloom on conventional films. He sure seemed to know what he was talking about, even if he worked his way thru college as a children's photographer at Sears.

 

[Lyaec350]

Interesting, it makes sense that you wouldn't see plastic (very radiolucent) on plain film because you're looking at a projection thru the entire body, but on both MRI and CT you should be able to see a signal void where a plastic object is located--for different reasons, but same result... I suppose if the fragments are small enough to be below the resolution of a full transverse body slice (< 1 cm usually) then you might have to track the bands of scar tissue to see the passage to it's final location, but then again MR and CT should both be able to do that.

 

[raffaelli]

Copper is fine, unless you listen to the ******** artists er I mean paint problem experts from DuPont or PPG.

Whatcha mean?

 

[Franz©]

I know of 2 shops where they have copper lines, that experienced problems with some paints from both manufacturers. When the reps were called on the carpet their excuse was silicone residue in the copper air lines left behind from the soldering flux.

 

[timgr]

... but on both MRI and CT you should be able to see a signal void where a plastic object is located--

Yes, PVC will be dark in MRI. You should be able to find small shards with either MRI or CT, but with MRI it only costs more scan time. With CT, higher resolution has other costs.

Tim, MR physicist (no bias here! )

 

[Franz©]

And then there are people who have worked with metal for years, the ones that make MRI operators run screaming from the room (something about who the hell ordered an MRI without a CT first?)

 

[SteveU]

I get a small quantity of fine particles about like sand when I open the ball valves with no air present out of the 1" black pipe. Emptied some of this out of the filter bowl but none of it gets to the air tools so it doesn't hurt anything.

 

[Industrial Concepts]

Aluminum Air Line is the way to go for compressed air. We sell & install Prevost it is an engineered system, a bit higher than galvanized. The install time is shorter, plenty of accessories & epoxy coated blue (international color code for compressed air)

 

[kdtjb]

Copper & 15% silver solder, it's only money.

 

[Kent Skinner]

I used PVC in my shop for five years (and I cut it out when I sold the house). I ran the line up to the trusses, and just dropped a quick disconnect & trap into the shop.

I had no problems. Also, if there was a problem, the shrapnel would most likely stay in the trusses. I'll do the same thing again on my next (non-commercial) shop.

 

[DRJZ1974]

So would you use a T1 or a T2 weighted image? Hahaha Just kidding with you.

Yes, PVC will be dark in MRI. You should be able to find small shards with either MRI or CT, but with MRI it only costs more scan time. With CT, higher resolution has other costs.

Tim, MR physicist (no bias here! )

 

[Torque1st]

This is a two YEAR old thread...

 

[protouring72]

What about those Garage Pack systems?

 

[DRJZ1974]

I know, but many people on here seem to get mad if someone starts a new thread. You get the "Use the search function before asking" line

This is a two YEAR old thread...

 

[ZRX61]

People are afraid it'll shatter, sending deadly shrapnel across the entire county.

Well maybe not that far, but I've seen it go thru aluminum aircraft & those repairs aren't cheap.

 

[smooth72]

Here is a great way to layout your air system.
www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

 

[MrMark]

Personally, I think copper is much easier and is lighter so it is easy to install. Soldering it together is a snap, compared to using pipe wrenches. Custom lengths do not need to be threaded, either.

This is dead on.

If you are skilled with soldering, copper is much easier and cleaner and just plain nicer to work with. Black pipe is dirty, nasty, rusts and is difficult to get to form air tight seals with the Chinese pipe and fittings available. I wouldn't use black pipe unless there was no other choice - like .25 PSI gas. You have to literally crank the hell out of black pipe with two wrenches applying way more torque than you would ever think you needed. And, you have to use some dope too, and good luck with getting a good dope. Plumbers use tape and dope because the Chinese pipe does not thread well.

Heaven forbid if you should have a leak in the middle of a black iron pipe job.

 

[zr52002]

Copper with SharkBite fittings is the winner in my shop. Fittings are a little pricey but readily available at home depot. The whole system went up in no time at all and it's a piece of cake to cut in a new drop when I need one.

 

[bdog]

Copper all the way. I had never soldered copper pipe before I did this project. I put up over 200' of 3/4" copper, soldered probably 50-75 connections, 150 psi and zero leaks. the stuff is really easy to work with. The copper pipe was about $4 more per 10' piece so $80 more than iron but I had not way to easily cut and thread the iron. I hear home depot will do it for you but I had tons of cuts. $80 extra in materials and a huge savings in hassle was worth it for me.