Blackhawk 7/16 Drive

[RustyShackleford]

Hi all...

I've been lurking here for the last day or two trying to gather info on some tools I got a hold of last weekend. My brother gave me a bucket of Blackhawk 7/16 drive sockets and ratchet that he got from someone else.

Anyway, I've been reading old threads and checked out the article on Alloy Artifacts that gives great info on the old Blackhawk stuff, but I've now got a question regarding the ratchet.

It's marked as a 9810 and according to all the info I can find, that model is a 1/2" drive. My ratchet, however is clearly a 7/16" drive. The Alloy Artifact article mentions the 9810 as a 1/2" drive, but doesn't mention anything regarding the 7/16". Has anyone seen/heard of this?

Here's a breakdown of what I got in the set...

9810 7/16 drive ratchet
39964 3/8 to 7/16 adapter
39966 Screw driver bit
39979 Drag link bit
39978 U joint
354xx U Joint sockets (7/16, 1/2, 5/8 x2, 11/16)
352xx 8 pt sockets (3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4)
351xx 12 pt sockets (7/16, 1/2, 9/16, 19/32, 21/32, 7/8, 15/16, 1", 1 1/16, 1 1/8
353xx 12 pt deep (11/16, 15/16, 1", 1 1/8)

This is a really cool set but a lot of it needs a good cleaning, as they've been sitting for some time. The ratchet seems to be locked up, but has gotten more loose as I've been soaking it in penetrating oil since yesterday. I was also wondering what the best way to take this thing apart will be so I can try to get it working again. Any suggestions on this would be helpful as well.

Thanks

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Did you inspect the drive stud? Is it perfectly square? Does it look like it may have been reduced to 7/16" from 1/2" by a PO?

By the book, the 9810 is an older freewheeling 1/2-inch drive ratchet. The 1/2-inch drive ratchet that is contemporary to your sockets and attachments etc would've been 49997.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I hadn't considered that possibility. I will have to take a look at it later on today. There wasn't a glaring indicator to me that it would have been modified, but again, I wasn't really looking for anything like that.

Do you think the drive stud could have been machined down, or is there a way that the 7/16 drive mechanism would have been retrofitted into this ratchet?

Also, any suggestions for disassembly? It looks like there are 4 pins on the drive assembly that hold it together, but I've never been around one of these freewheelers before, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Do you think the drive stud could have been machined down, or is there a way that the 7/16 drive mechanism would have been retrofitted into this ratchet?

I was thinking the former. Very commonly seen on 9/32-inch drive ratchets converted to 1/4-inch drive. While I have never seen or heard of it being done with a Blackhawk 1/2-inch drive ratchet, it was the first thing that popped into my head, especially since I have no awareness of any kind of kit or replacement drive package to convert a 9810 or 49997 1/2-inch drive ratchet into a 39997 7/16-inch drive ratchet. Someone else may know of one. You should ask on the Blackhawk thread. Use the Index in the Stickie at the top of the forum to find it.

It looks like there are 4 pins on the drive assembly that hold it together, but I've never been around one of these freewheelers before, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

I have one, but I've never thought about disassembling it. What's it doing? Will it turn? They are gearless, so it can feel broke (no teeth sound) when it's not. Just push the top to reverse.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is a 7/16 freewheeler with a 1/2 incher. The length and diameter are different.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I have one, but I've never thought about disassembling it. What's it doing? Will it turn? They are gearless, so it can feel broke (no teeth sound) when it's not. Just push the top to reverse.

It's acting frozen like any rusty tool, but I can turn the drive stud about 1/4". Every now and again, I can get about a half turn out of it but there's no rhyme or reason to get it to act this way consistently. The reverser (not sure proper term :-D) doesn't seem to be functioning either.

Thanks for your insight. I'll roll over to the Blackhawk guys and see what I can find out.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

He knows he has a 1/2-inch drive ratchet, Otg. It's marked 9810. But it apparently fits the 7/16-inch drive sockets. Which means the drive stud is 7/16". The question is whether it is factory (some kind of replacement guts/plug) or PO mod, as I suspect.

 

[Zrxrunner]

I just got my first free wheeler last year, a 3/8" that was kinda stopped up when I got it too. Best I'd recommend is using a parts washer to spray it while you work the mechanism. Took a little time, but got mine working like new.
Good to see another iowa member posting too...watch out, easy to get hooked collecting once you start!!

 

[dimwittedmoose51]

Here is a 7/16 freewheeler with a 1/2 incher. The length and diameter are different.

Blackhawk made Free Wheelers for 3/8', 7/16" and 1/2" drives, but neither of these rats in the the photos have the tapered bullet end that was on the Torpedo box Nugget set. The sockets are a good score however, and best wishes for freeing up those Freewhwheelers!!
DM&FS

 

[Shelbylex]

May be try soaking it in ATF for some time. Worked well on vintage SO ratchets for me prior (different mechanism though...)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The early 7/16 stuff did not have the bullet handles, but very cool nonetheless!

 

[Shelbylex]

Nice set, Oldtuleguy! Love the box!
Are those original rubber liners? I read they had rubber liners from the factory. If yes, please post more pictures of them (may be one with a ruler next to it to see how many lines per inch). I have two Blackhawk boxes - would prefer to copy original liners.

Please post your box in Blackhawk thread as well - I do not remember seeing it there

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Don't know if liners are original, but came in box. Posted it some time ago, it's been awhile.

 

[Shelbylex]

I guess I missed it, OTG. Can you make me a picture when you have some time? Thank you (if you prefer, you can send the picture to me directly)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Looks like 7 or 8 ribs per inch shelby

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Oldtuleguy!

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Shelby: I'm not a Blackhawk guy so I don't know if those boxes came with the ribbed lining or not. I started a resto of a 57 Craftsman stack today. The 8d roller was lined with, what appears to be, the same black ribbed lining as OTGs box. I'll take some pics and measurements tomorrow. I plan on taking a different route with the lining so I won't be re-using them. If they suit your needs, you're welcome to them for the cost of shipping. They're in great condition. At least they don't look like they were just purchased at a box store.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, JoCoSawdust. I wish we had somebody who had a Blackhawk with original liners.
I usually use black Yoga mats for big drawers and Home Deepot liner for smaller ones.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

No clue on these. They look pretty old and are in every section, even under the tray and under the little speeder slot, but the odds of finding an 85 year old toolbox with the original liners seem slim.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I read they had rubber liners from the factory.

Source?

 

[Provincial]

That ribbed mat was often originally used on automotive running boards, among other anti-slip applications. It was widely available past the 1950's.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That's probably what it is. I liked the patina on this one so just left it alone, grime included!

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Shelby, I still haven't broken the code on posting pics in "conversations" so I'll post them here. Looks like 8 ribs per inch. Looks old (because they are) but pliable enough to be rolled for shipping. Big pieces are 19x16.5. The backs are smooth, unlike what OTG is showing in his pics. I never remember the size of flat rate boxes but I think they'd fit in a large one. Box stores around me still sell a very similar material billed as "floor runners". Comes on a roll, sold by the foot. If you want this stuff shoot me a mess...."conversation". I have no plans for it and it'll sit in my shop till my kid throws it away when I'm gone.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Don't know if liners are original, but came in box.

I read they had rubber liners from the factory.

Source?

I got curious (because it seemed a little early and a little extravagant to me...), so I answered my own question.

1948 catalog...

Page 11, 74DS "Red Rover" (roller), pic shows matting in top and description says, "rubber matting in top tray."

Page 32, 70R/90R ("Treasure Chest") and 100R ("Big Chief Chest"), shows black rubber matting in top and drawers, but not mentioned in description

Page 33, 100DS "Red Rover (roller), shows matting in top, and description says, "ribbed-rubber matting in top tray and drawers".

Even though it's scattershot/inconsistent, it looks to me like every size chest had black, ribbed, rubber matting throughout.

 

[bonneyman]

It's acting frozen like any rusty tool, but I can turn the drive stud about 1/4". Every now and again, I can get about a half turn out of it but there's no rhyme or reason to get it to act this way consistently. The reverser (not sure proper term :-D) doesn't seem to be functioning either.

Thanks for your insight. I'll roll over to the Blackhawk guys and see what I can find out.

Try soaking it in a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Leave it in the jar for a week. Then try spinning it. As it loosens, if any crud leaks out, put it back in the soak for another day. Continue until it drips pure red or spins free. I've yet to have a savable ratchet fail to be brought back to life with this stuff.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Good info lugz. I guess they may be original.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Oldtuleguy, Lugz and JoCoSawdust! I appreciate it.
Sorry I could not answer, Lugz. I found it in the catalog with Red Rover
JoCoSawdust, I will pass for now, but might send you a message once I get to restoration in the future. Since I do not have great restoration skills, boxes are relatively rare, the bottom one survived the fire at some point and has rust and top one one well burned by hot Texas sun, I eventually will probably pay for somebody to sandblast and probably powdercoat them (for bottom one I like a darker red one you see on the bottom, for top one I am not sure yet...)

Well, since we are all discussing the old boxes, let me ask you for an opinion: originally the top box had a sticker for an emblem. Would you consider getting an actual emblem like on the bottom box on it after restoration or not (which will be not similar to original top chest design...) I saw "A Blackhawk product" one and one similar to "Blackhawk wrench set" on e-bay - thus I know they can be bought. Not sure about the round one...
... Still need to think about it, but would appreciate an opinion!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

If the decal is how it came I would stick with that

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Good info lugz. I guess they may be original.

Personally, if the chest was mine, I know that I sure as hell would be claiming the matting was original. The chest is original. The matting came with it. Everything more or less looks unmolested as found. And the 1948 catalog describes it as black and ribbed. "Professionally," as collectors, my opinion is that we would be way past cautious, past skeptical, and well into cynical to deny that. You guys know I am fairly exacting about provenance, because, let's face it, if it's too easy and we say that everything is original, spec correct etc, it takes the fun out of the challenge of finding things that are actually original, spec correct, etc. By the same but opposite token, if our criteria and judgement is overly harsh, it also takes the fun out of it. I don't know what more we could reasonably expect in a case like that.

Well, since we are all discussing the old boxes, let me ask you for an opinion: originally the top box had a sticker for an emblem. Would you consider getting an actual emblem like on the bottom box on it after restoration or not (which will be not similar to original top chest design...)

If the decal is how it came I would stick with that

 

[Farmer J.]

Yea, "stick with the sticker", that's my opinion too.