Blank Slate

[mr_future]

I just bought a house (built in 1970) with the biggest attached garage space I've ever had, which I plan on refurbing. I already removed the drywall (sadly, no pictures of the original drywall and beautiful popcorn ceiling).

Here are the main phases of the project:

- Electrical: 1 x MWBC for outlets, 1 x 20amp for lights, 1 x 30amp for compressor which I will buy someday.
- Insulation: fiberglass/foam insulation for three walls shared with house
- Lighting: banks of fluorescent or LED lighting
- Drywall: 5/8' [don't know if I will do myself or hire someone]
- install additional Garage door opener
- Shelving/mounting systems: slatboard, etc.

Please let me know your suggestions and ideas. The layout is a basic 2 car garage, with a 10 x 10 extra area, which I will use as a workshop. The cars will be bump-stopped such that will barely clear the garage doors, leaving plenty of space deeper in the garage. I'll probably do a lot of shelving in the car part of the garage for storage. Ladders, lumber, etc., will also be stored in that area. Tool storage/placement will be in the workshop and the area outside of it. The main stuff I do in garages is work on cars, although I do want to get into carpentry.

Rough plan:

Facing out:

Facing in:

Workshop area:

This project has already justified itself. Removing the drywall exposed three buried splices. They were copper/aluminum, with a copper nut, wrapped in electrical tape. Might as well be bombs with delayed fuses. These were from the kitchen remodel done personally by the prior owner. DIY gone wrong. I was literally shaking when I found these splices. My electrician got rid of them in about thirty minutes using the existing wire.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on your purchase! I'll be following along. I love watching garages get transformed from studs info your dream space, as I underwent the same transformation in my space. Keep the updates coming!

 

[Kevkx125]

Looks cool, Just a thought can you relocate the water heater to give you more room?

 

[mr_future]

Looks cool, Just a thought can you relocate the water heater to give you more room?

Great idea! It doesn't make sense to have the water heater in the space where all of the action happens. Now I'm considering hiring a plumber to move the water heater into the corner by the entry (where the workbench is in the pic). I would just leave the tank in plain site rather than waste space with a closet for it. Could probably sell this idea to the wife given that the water heater would be closer to the shower.

 

[Ray-CA]

Have you thought about a tankless water heater?

Ray

 

[mr_future]

Ray-CA, I wasn't thinking about it due to cost. Our current water heater is new and performs fine. Would you recommend switching to tankless?

 

[HSpencer]

This is a great starting point. I would agree on moving water heater if another spot is available. Great to have a garage down to the studs when you begin the build. It will be a very interesting transformation indeed. Looking good to go!!

Best Regards
Herb

 

[drivesitfar]

MR: great start to the space already. if the cost of the tankless is in your budget it sure does take up a lot less space. while your plumber is moving the tank to the front near the garage door if you keep it i'd suggest having him install a hot and cold water faucet either out the front of the garage or inside if you have to cause of temperatures in the winter. i put a hot water faucet out the front of my house almost 30 years ago and I've never had an issue with it freezing and it really is handy, but our temps rarely get to the teens much less below that.

I'd paint that TOE KICKER YELLOW FIRST OFF or you or your wife or friends is going to do a face plant. maybe with some black stripes too. your call, but i know if i wasn't kicking it all the time i'd probably hurt myself going up or down and usually with something in my hands.

plan on PLENTY OF LIGHTS and OUTLETS, maybe a 220 up front for a compressor and 220 in the back for some future tool/machine if you don't need one now. It's a lot easier to put in a few more outlets now while the walls are open.

good luck

 

[mr_future]

drivesitfar: thanks, I like the idea about painting the toe kicker. Will definitely do that. Saving space with a tankless sounds good, but wife will probably veto. We already have a big utility sink just on the other side of the entry door, which gets the job done. When you say front and back, which side of the garage is the front? The side with the garage doors or the other end where the entry door is? Trying to figure out where you were talking about putting the 240s outlets.

 

[drivesitfar]

MR. hot water faucet out the front for driveway use. for 220 or 240 plugs just put them where you think you might NEED them and since you are joining GJ i'm guessing you might end up buying a big compressor if you don't already own one so if you can't find a place outside the garage to build a sort of Lien Too so it won't be so loud then i'd suggest near the garage door so at least when you are using it if the door is open a lot of the noise might not stay in the garage.

now for the second 220/240 you might want to put one in your woodshop area for a future machine if you don't already own one that needs that much power.

it looks like you are going to sheet rock or are you going to use plywood, OSB or sheet rock or peg board on the walls? just put in a lot of extra outlets and a few circuits just because you'll probably need some. some guys even put outlets on the ceilings and have cords hanging down. also plenty of lights too.

I'd also insulate the ceiling and walls.

 

[MacTexas]

Looks like you are off to a good start. Following.

 

[wakemeup]

What does everyone think about him doing surface mount for the electrical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[drivesitfar]

WAKE: surface mount might be ok if Mr. does OSB or likes that look. since he already has the walls open though i would think insetting the boxes would be a lot easier to do and probably a cleaner look if he's putting sheet rock back up.

 

[dubber]

That workshop area out back is such a bonus. That will really help with the success of the rest of the space. The shelving on on the right side, does that not interfere with a car going in that space? I would say get rid of that and anything on the sides should but up high.

 

[mr_future]

That workshop area out back is such a bonus. That will really help with the success of the rest of the space. The shelving on on the right side, does that not interfere with a car going in that space? I would say get rid of that and anything on the sides should but up high.

I agree! I'm stoked about a dedicated workshop space. It looks like shelving on the right, but that is actually the work bench left by the previous owner. I'll move it into the work area, and maybe make a new one once the garage is operable. I plan on doing high shelves near the cars.

 

[mr_future]

Today I decided to not run the 240V circuits during my build out, since I will probably be unable to buy a big compressor any time soon. Dealing with garage drywall would only add a couple of hours to installing a 240V outlet. I could install the outlet in exactly the right spot, this way. This weekend, I hope to run a 20amp MWBC for outlets, and a 20 amp for lights.

 

[drivesitfar]

MR: you could also run conduit on the outside of the sheetrock if you need 220 outlets in the future too if you need them.

did you put a few circuits for your lights and outlets? don't want to short yourself on power options if you have a choice.

good luck

 

[House]

Looks like a good space you have there. I would move the water heater out of the garage all together. You plan on having some work space and a gas heater pilot light is just asking for a reason to cause an explosion,especially down near the floor level. Fumes from gas in the car tanks, paint thinners,solvents,stains those sort of things are very flammable.
I operate a small reno business and I use my detached garage as my main work/wood shop. I have hydronic in floor heat and it is run off a water heater that is actually in the basement of my home so that I have no pilot lights out there at all.
As for your electrical if it was me I would install a few more plugs then you think you need, always nice to have a couple extra as you needs change.
I have a multitude of DIY videos on my You tube channel that my come in very handy for you during this project, including many electrical and drywall videos. The drywalling is not really that hard to DIY but does require some practice to get right and a garage is a great place to get some practice before you tackle more critical areas inside your home where the wife's eyes are more likely to get picky

Here is a link to my channel if you want to have a look:

 

[eae197]

Mr f, if I may ask, why are you using MWBC for the outlets? just wondering.

 

[eae197]

Mr f, PS, I have built a couple houses, remodeled some others and I don't much care for doing dry wall. Recently remodeled kitchen/dining area in my home and sublet the dry wall. They were in and out in three days, for about $250 more than I could have done it myself. Well worth it. That included the ceiling being painted.

 

[drivesitfar]

MR: i agree with EAE that if you can pay a good drywaller to do the work it's money well spent. now it depends how nice you want the garage or how talented you are at mudding and taping. also why i mentioned OSB for a garage cause you don't have to mud and tape and you can screw shelving into the OSB.

EAE: nice sig line!! thanks

 

[mr_future]

eae197: MWBC since I would need two 20 amp circuits for outlets, so I'll run less wire this way with less voltage drop. This decision is just based on googling. This will be my first circuit install. I studied up on MWBCs and things to watch out for.

Thanks to yourself and Drivesitfar for the tip regarding drywall. Subletting is starting to sound good. Not sure if I want to spend months learning to drywall.

Everybody here gave me the idea to move the waterheater. I did some research and consulted my contractor uncle. Due to budget/laziness, I think I'll leave it there. That is a massive project and/or cost to reclaim a few square feet of space. We can't afford a tankless, either, as awesome as it would be to reclaim the space and lower the gas bill.

 

[drivesitfar]

MR: it was sort of mentioned before and i want to mention it again. i understand you wanting to leave the water heater in your garage where it is because of cost, but BEEE CAREFUL with how you work in the garage. i've heard some painting fumes could have your pilot light setting off them like a BOMB and i've heard some welding gases might have issues with an open flame nearby. obviously sawdust and debris and other chemicals you'll need to be very careful with too.

if you want help with the wiring post up some ideas you are thinking you want to do before you do them and maybe one of us can give you a little more advice. 2 circuits would be a minimum for me cause i'd put lights on one and probably have at least two circuits for power and a 220 might come in handy if your service panel has the room can you take a few pictures of your service panel and post them?

good luck

 

[mr_future]

drivesitfar: I hear you re: the pilot light hazard. My plan for that is to create a seal on the access door to the water heater closet. I would probably even turn off the water heater for a fume intensive task.

I'll post pictures of what I did with the circuits - I've already asked around enough to have a plan.

 

[House]

drivesitfar: I hear you re: the pilot light hazard. My plan for that is to create a seal on the access door to the water heater closet. I would probably even turn off the water heater for a fume intensive task.

I'll post pictures of what I did with the circuits - I've already asked around enough to have a plan.

Make sure you have a combustion air inlet from outside then. Still be careful also.

 

[mr_future]

Today I installed the light and outlet circuits. Wayyyyyy in the back of the attic I found the plate above the sub-panel, and drilled two 1/2" holes. At the panel, I discovered that five breakers were empty. I moved some breakers around to put the empties together, and replaced two of them with the double pole. Then I connected the two circuits (1 x 20 amp and 1 x 20 amp MWBC). I returned to the attic and tested the voltage of the wires - all good. The MBWC had 120 volts between each hot and the neutral, and 240 volts between the hots. I capped the hot wires and tripped the breakers. I'll run the wire later.

I noticed what looks like an MWBC with no pole connecting the breakers. Will have to add a pole, later, after doing some further testing.

Here is where I drilled a couple of holes through the plate in the attic.

That splice at the bottom right was not done by me... The two breakers I installed are above the AFCI on the bottom right, with the cables being the two yellow romex poking in at the top right. Since this is a sub-panel, I was able to completely de-energize it, which was nice.

 

[hedgehog]

Nice work on finding the illegal junctions.

 

[drivesitfar]

MR: i agree before boxing in your water heater since it's gas make sure to get some good advice on how you vent it. also i like the idea of turning off the pilot light when working with chemicals or other things that might cause a problem or an explosion at worse case.

there have been a few gas explosions lately in residential neighborhoods that were never an issue (or maybe not reported on the news as much) in the past so BEE CAREFUL.

wiring looks great, but i'm not an electrician. maybe somebody else that is can put their eyes to your work if you keep posting up pictures and i'll try to look in as i can to help.

good luck

 

[House]

I notice you have no main breaker in your panel, is this a sub panel? Also I see there are many aluminum wires. With the main power shut off be sure and tighten all of those connections . Aluminum wire tends to loosen up over the years. It is also recommended that you do not join aluminum and copper wires together.

 

[drivesitfar]

HOUSE: while you are looking in isn't aluminum not recommended in most homes now or was that because of the issue you mentioned?

also MR did say that is a SUB PANEL so he is able to turn off the power to it when he works on it which is nice. pretty big sub panel if you ask me for a house.

 

[mr_future]

House: Yes sub-panel. Since I have found many electrical horrors since moving in, you bet that I torqued every screw in that panel! They were all tight, surprisingly.

Thanks for noticing all of my shiny aluminum wiring. Since I bought the home I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about the properties of copper and aluminum wire. I payed an electrician to redo most of the connections. He missed some, which I ended up doing myself. We used AlumiConn connectors. I still need to go into the attic and search under the insulation for buried splices.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

I was in the same boat as you when finishing my garage. I knew I could hang all the sheetrock no problem, but I was leery of taping and mudding as I had never done it before. Ultimately, after getting a few quotes, I decided to do it myself. It absolutely sucked going through it (my garage is 26' x 34' with 10.5' ceilings) but I am glad I did it in the end. Now I have the skill, which I'll be putting to use when I finish off my basement someday in the not too distant future. Seeing this picture still makes my back hurt, though, but I saved a good deal of money.

 

[House]

HOUSE: while you are looking in isn't aluminum not recommended in most homes now or was that because of the issue you mentioned?

also MR did say that is a SUB PANEL so he is able to turn off the power to it when he works on it which is nice. pretty big sub panel if you ask me for a house.

Aluminum is not used anymore. It is still considered safe so long as things are done right and electrical loads on those circuits are not to high. The biggest issue is aluminum is softer and weaker than copper and its actually a poor electrical conductor. Other factors are that it heats up much more under load and this heating causes poor connections over time. Here is a really good article explaining many of the issues. http://www.alwirerepair.com/aluminum-wiring-whats-the-problem

 

[House]

House: Yes sub-panel. Since I have found many electrical horrors since moving in, you bet that I torqued every screw in that panel! They were all tight, surprisingly.

Thanks for noticing all of my shiny aluminum wiring. Since I bought the home I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about the properties of copper and aluminum wire. I payed an electrician to redo most of the connections. He missed some, which I ended up doing myself. We used AlumiConn connectors. I still need to go into the attic and search under the insulation for buried splices.

Great, glad you got things looked after.