Blowing out water lines ....

[BellyUpFish]

Ok, so I’ve got a 150’ run of 1” PVC running water to my shop.

Just got it in the ground, don’t even have a sink yet, just stubbed out, but it does have some water in it.

99.9% of the run will be below the frost line, however the .1% that won’t will be the problem.

So I’m thinking about adding a spot to hook up an air bottle and blow out the line down stream of the shut off valve.

It shouldn’t matter where in the line this setup is so long as it’s placed in a spot so as to blow out the water in the exposed areas, right?

Looking left:

Looking right:

This is the trench I’m working with. Thinking about putting the hookup somewhere in he “looking right” picture. Probably the straight run right where the picture starts.

Just wanted to get some “hive” thoughts on this.

Thinking about plumbing in something like the following picture..




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[58Yeoman]

The underground line going to my shop is a bit shorter than yours, but the PO put in a fitting in the basement so that he could blow the water line clear all the way to the shop. The shop isn't heater all the time, so I put heat tape on the exposed lines, plus going into the ground about a foot. I leave my water on all the time. I had the faucet freeze once when I forgot to plug in the heat tape. It's plugged in now 24/7.

I would think you would want to blow it clear the full length, so as not to have water sitting in the line in the other direction.

 

[gerahead]

Even though it looks like your water line is downhill, I would try to put your connection for clearing the line as close to the shut off valve as possible to make sure that you get all the water out. L8r

Jim

 

[WhiffySpark]

High and close to **** off

 

[n20junkie]

I have the same issue.

I have a shutoff in the house, and a ball valve drain T'd into the water line where it exits the house.

I put a hose on the drain and back flush the line with RV antifreeze for winter.

 

[BellyUpFish]

I have the same issue.

I have a shutoff in the house, and a ball valve drain T'd into the water line where it exits the house.

I put a hose on the drain and back flush the line with RV antifreeze for winter.

I considered pouring RV antifreeze down the shop supply line. Since I don’t have a lot of water in it yet, as I don’t have the sink installed, it should be fine.

I’d still need a couple valves installed for next year once I get the water going to be able to evacuate and backfill with AF.

As long as the shop supply shut off valve held, I should be fine. I guess I just don’t want to chance introducing antifreeze to my drinking water, but in theory, if the valve is leaking pressure from the “high side” of the valve should push the antifreeze to the low side and not allow any antifreeze into the potable water.

This is essentially what I’ve got..

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[WhiffySpark]

Is there a back flow on the line? Your irrigation should have a blow out port.

 

[Bclinehand]

for the part of the line that isn't below the frost line why not install some rigid insulation directly on top of the line......... it will effectively give you the same frost protection that the deeper fill does on the rest of the line........

 

[Bretny]

Just because its not below the frost line dosnt mean it will freeze. On really cold nights you can just let a sink trickle.

My well supply line is about 1ft above frost line and 50ft long. I have never had it freeze or even left the sink to trickle at all.

 

[Pabird]

Bellyupfish, , sounds like a similar situation at my place. When the weather turns cold I use compressed air to blow the water out but I blow it back towards my house. When I installed the line I put in a drain valve in my basement above the utility tub.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Is there a back flow on the line?

BFPs are code on irrigation...

Tommy

 

[WhiffySpark]

BFPs are code on irrigation...

Tommy

HEre it is. I’m not sure about every where else. We always install one. If it’s homeowner installed who knows if they did it to code

 

[kbs2244]

Is this a one time thing, or an every winter thing?

If one time, have a landscape guy blow it out.
Less than an hour job on the way home.

If you are keeping the water on all winter I would go with the insulation on the exposed part of the pipe.
Maybe with heat tape for peace of mind.
Protect the insulation with some 3 inch PVC as amour.

 

[nyy845]

I know I'm not answering your question, but do yourself a favor and put a trace wire in there for locating it down the road.

 

[metlmunchr]

On PVC its a lot safer to use a male adapter and a steel reducing coupling rather than a female adapter and a steel bushing as shown. Internally threaded PVC parts will split if the male fitting is screwed in the least bit too tight, and it won't necessarily happen at the time when you're making up the fitting. I've seen them crack several months later. Using the male adapter puts the plastic in compression, and I've never seen them give any problem.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Bellyupfish, , sounds like a similar situation at my place. When the weather turns cold I use compressed air to blow the water out but I blow it back towards my house. When I installed the line I put in a drain valve in my basement above the utility tub.

Well true to my nature, I’m sure I’ve over complicated things.

I went to the lowest spot in the line and installed a T with a ball valve and I’ll just throw a valve box over it.

And I’ll install a T under the sink with a threaded fitting so I can hook the air up in the shop and blow it back towards the house.

I am way behind on the shop septic project and had to do something for this winter. $15 worth of PVC shouldn’t kill budget.


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[BellyUpFish]

BFPs are code on irrigation...



Tommy

There is a backflow installed.. Just not shown on my drawing.


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[raferguson]

Do not use car antifreeze, toxic. Use RV antifreeze, non-toxic.

 

[dfiler2]

If that trench gets you below the frost line put a one foot wide x 2" thick piece of polystyrene directly over the line then bury it. The heat from the ground will keep it from freezing.

 

[tarmy]

There is an easy cheap way to do this.

I have on all my underground sprinkler and water lines that could be frozen, or are shut down for periods of time, those presure valves that OPEN only when pressure drops

Amazon has them. They are PVC and simply close automatically when the system is pressurized...and remain closed. When the water line supply valve is closed... the pressure valve opens and drains the line.

They need to be installed at the lower or lowest point in the trench...or sag points in the line. Had them for years, works great.

On Amazon they are listed as (for example)...Orbit watermaster underground plastic auto drain valve.

 

[Angelfire]

Just how cold does the ground get in Alabama anyway? I can't imagine the frost line is all that deep and it appears from your photo that you've got ~18" depth?

Regardless, what I've done in the past is added a 3 way valve after the supply valve and use this second valve to drain the system. If you have a low point on the line, install it there. Shut off the supply, open the drain and anything in between or downstream to allow air to enter the system. Even if you don't get all the water out, enough will be drained that even if it froze, you shouldn't have an issue.
Cheers.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Just how cold does the ground get in Alabama anyway? I can't imagine the frost line is all that deep and it appears from your photo that you've got ~18" depth?

Regardless, what I've done in the past is added a 3 way valve after the supply valve and use this second valve to drain the system. If you have a low point on the line, install it there. Shut off the supply, open the drain and anything in between or downstream to allow air to enter the system. Even if you don't get all the water out, enough will be drained that even if it froze, you shouldn't have an issue.
Cheers.

About 6” and that’s on an extremely cold year.

This thread has somewhat morphed, probably due to how I described my issue.

The sprinkler system is self draining via a valve like described above.

I’ve got a run from the main supply line to my shop that I wanted to be able to blow the water out of for this winter, since 1/2 the trench is going to stay open “until I get around to it.”

I wound doing essentially like you’ve described. Valve in the low spot. I’m also plumbing an air connection into the line inside the shop so I can blow it out if need be.

Realistically, once the trench is covered up, I don’t think this will be necessary.


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[BellyUpFish]

Well, just as a follow up, as I hate it when someone will ask a question and then never post up what worked for them and for anyone who might be searching and come across this thread for whatever reason....

I installed a ball valve drain at the lowest point in the line I could get to and the line self drains from there.

I bought adapters to be able to pressurize the line from inside the shop if need be, but haven’t installed it as I don’t think it’s going to be necessary, but may still install it when I get around to plumbing in the sink just so it’s there if I need it.


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[Falcon67]

At another place I had an outside faucet that was fed basically from "over there", down, across and up to the spigot. Where the line exited the house and turned down, I used a gate valve and a T, capped the top end of the T with a plug. In winter, shut the gate valve, pull the plug, open the spigot and blow air through the spigot. Replace plug, cover the house exit spot with an insulated box.

 

[ripperd]

If using air, keep in mind the CFM required to actually clear the line. your typical fittings and hoses hooked to a garage compressor can't put out the CFM required to clear a 1" pipe completely.

 

[garagelogician]

If using air, keep in mind the CFM required to actually clear the line. your typical fittings and hoses hooked to a garage compressor can't put out the CFM required to clear a 1" pipe completely.

True, but you generally don't need clear the water completely. If the pipes are half full or less, there is enough room for the water to expand. Lots of guys around here blow out their sprinklers with small compressors in their garage and don't have any problems. It takes longer to be sure, but works fine in most cases.

 

[JOE.G]

I use an adapter that screws on to a standard hose fitting and then a standard mail air fitting, I can hook it up at the shop or the house side and it blows out a 1 Inch 100 ft run of water line with out a issue. I do open up all the sinks and hoses to let it blow out and have it run for a good 10 to 15 mins to make sure it is dry. I do have a 80 Gal compressor on one end and a 30 Gal compressor on the other.

 

[rburke65]

You could install a hydrant and not have to worry about it freezing.

 

[ford fanatic]

I have the same issue.

I have a shutoff in the house, and a ball valve drain T'd into the water line where it exits the house.

I put a hose on the drain and back flush the line with RV antifreeze for winter.

This is what I have also. All tees are in the basement, blow the line clear and dump in a half gallon of RV ant-freeze to dilute any water that didn't get blown out.

 

[gnpenning]

As tarmy mentioned add a couple auto drains in a gravel bed with your drain valve and you should never have to blow it out. YMMV. It doesn't have to be 100% clear. Which portion is the .1? If in the shop use pex.

If any of the line is driven over this will push your frost line deeper. If that's the case as mentioned cover those areas. You don't have anywhere near the freezing problems as we have here in Montana. I wouldn't trade summer's though.