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blown in insulation

Mattlt

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My opinion (as a firefighter who's pulled his share of ceilings) is that it really makes a mess! Fiberglass bats come out in one piece, not so much with blown-in cellulose. I think pretty much any blown-in insulation would be the same thing - a mess.

Cellulose is NOT fire PROOF. Fire RESISTANT, maybe, but it does smolder. Most of the time, you've got to pull the ceilings down to get at the fire.

My earlier reference to the septic truck being used to **** insulation out of an attic.... It works pretty well. We actually came up with the idea after a local septic contractor had a fire in the attic of his own shop. He suggested sucking the insulation out with his truck. Worked great! Used it a couple of times since. They actually sell products intended for use by the fire service to vacuum smoldering insulation out of the attic. You still have to get up there to **** it out, but that's usually less labor-intensive than pulling a ceiling and having to clean up that mess.
 
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JakeKohl

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My opinion (as a firefighter who's pulled his share of ceilings) is that it really makes a mess! Fiberglass bats come out in one piece, not so much with blown-in cellulose. I think pretty much any blown-in insulation would be the same thing - a mess.

Cellulose is NOT fire PROOF. Fire RESISTANT, maybe, but it does smolder. Most of the time, you've got to pull the ceilings down to get at the fire.

My earlier reference to the septic truck being used to **** insulation out of an attic.... It works pretty well. We actually came up with the idea after a local septic contractor had a fire in the attic of his own shop. He suggested sucking the insulation out with his truck. Worked great! Used it a couple of times since. They actually sell products intended for use by the fire service to vacuum smoldering insulation out of the attic. You still have to get up there to **** it out, but that's usually less labor-intensive than pulling a ceiling and having to clean up that mess.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. How does foam insulation compare in this scenario?
 

dlenkewich

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Can somebody post and tell me (show pictures) more about installing soffit baffles in my 1985 built rambler/ranch (4/12 roof). Would there not be some kind of baffles in place now.

I can see that I have blown in sulation now but how does one determine existing R value vs what I should have. I live in Western Wash state. Not that cold here but Id like to reduce my nat gas heating bill.

I plan to get contractor bids on the insulation

What about my 2 x ? floor joists (crawl space under house) only having R-19 fiberglas batt insulation. Might it be worth be adding R-11 unfaced onto the R-19 = R-30 ??????

You should have some type of insulation stop/baffle, should have been pretty popular by '85.

You'll have to figure out what kind of insulation you have. Try googling pictures to compare to whats in your attic if you don't know. Given the year of your house there's a small chance it could be vermiculite which in some cases(not all) is contaminated with asbestos. If it is vermiculite, get it tested by a lab to find out. Do not let anyone blow over vermiculite unless you are sure it is clean.

Anyways... Cellulose r-value is rated about 3.5 per inch. Fibreglass 4 per inch. Just measure the depth to find out what you're rated at.

Last question I can't answer without seeing your home. Depending on the size of the joist R-19 may be all that can be put in there.

i just got one quote for the insulation, 1700 dollars plus i would have to get a "roofing" guy in to put the baffles in, i guess he doesnt want the work

I don't recall the square footage, so I can't comment on the price, but I wouldn't be giving my business to a guy who thinks insulation stops are a roofers job.

If you already have fiberglass batt insulation in the walls, can they really blow in more cellulose without ripping out a bunch of drywall?

I ask because it seems like some exterior walls are not well insulated in our house and I'd love to address that if it wasn't a giant mess.

If you have fibreglass in your walls there isn't much you can do other then add a layer of styrofoam outside. Spraying in the walls like your thinking is commonly done for homes with wood shavings in the walls that have settled leaving no insulation at the top of the wall.

I want to hear more about these woodchips. Are they treated with some sort of fire retardant? You may want to think about taking those out before putting more insulation over the top of them.

Wood chips (and also newspapers) were common as insulation in old homes, think early 1900's when people made due with what they had. There is no fire rating. It's just better then nothing. It's possible that this was just the only option for insulation for many years.

Tell me more... I was thinking of getting rid of all the itchy fiberglass and getting cellulose in there under the impression that it's treated to be fireproof. :headscrat

Unless you've got mold or some other damage to the insulation you'd only be causing yourself a lot of work and 'itch' by taking out fibreglass. There isn't anything wrong with fibreglass. Per inch it performs better then cellulose, if you have fibreglass and want more, I'd suggest fibreglass, cellulose is too heavy to be spraying on top.

Both fibreglass and cellulose are fire rated.

I am going to do this in my attice. The attic now was somewhat insulated by the previous owner with bat insulation. it also has some boards (Mostly MDF) laid down as a floor for storage. Would I leave the current insulation and boards in place, or would they have to be removed?

It would be a waste of energy to remove the old insulation. The boards are your call.
 

mx500

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i went with fiberglass, and it was real easy. i actually did it myself, taped hose to high part of rafter and load one in and let it spray by itself, then the second one go up and blow it around. comes out like snow. i actually enjoyed it. no dust, no itch. they do say that cellulose is a better insulator, but i knew that this being a new barn, i would be up there alot adding circuits,air lines, etc.. and what do you want to crawl around it later? i have 2o inches and its about 8 degrees warmer in the attic than outside this week when in it was 3 degrees outside, and 45 in barn. 1500 sq ft
 

jvitez

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NUTTSGT

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I would be interested in why the firefighters don't like it too. I found that it really slows fire progression through a structure (better than fiberglass).
I didn't watch the video but I think I know which one it is. Any time someone triesd to sell a video as a testament to their product, it's set to the way they want their product to excel.

My opinion (as a firefighter who's pulled his share of ceilings) is that it really makes a mess! Fiberglass bats come out in one piece, not so much with blown-in cellulose. I think pretty much any blown-in insulation would be the same thing - a mess.

Cellulose is NOT fire PROOF. Fire RESISTANT, maybe, but it does smolder. Most of the time, you've got to pull the ceilings down to get at the fire.
Thank you for posting and saving me from typing that.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. How does foam insulation compare in this scenario?

Spray foam is not very common around here as a whole house insulation. There are many people that seal spaces and gaps with it. The one case that I have seen was a home of a lower income family that had done some addition work. They spray foamed alot of the walls/gaps with some Great Stuff or similar product. It effectively sealed up the area and prevented the fire from spreading a great deal. It essentially burned straight up to the next floor, burning through the 2nd floor joists.


Blown in cellulouse is a good insulating product, it does work. If you ever have to remove it from a home, you'll understand the PITA is is for us in the fire service. Like Matt said, pull a ceiling and you're covered with the **** and it gets into everything. Also like Matt posted, it SMOLDERS. If you don't get all of it out of the house, it can very easily cause a rekindle. What looks like an area between two rafters full of insulation isn't, dig along the bottom and you'll find that bottom is smoldering insulation that has traveled 4-5 feet from you source of fire.

While I knowit's hard for some to understand that I've explained to people like this; cellulouse is shredded newspaper. Have you ever lit a newspaper and it didn't light but an orange glow traveled across the paper burning it and turning it black ? This is what happens to blown in cellulouse insulation.
 

JakeKohl

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I didn't watch the video but I think I know which one it is. Any time someone triesd to sell a video as a testament to their product, it's set to the way they want their product to excel.

Well, thanks, I'm glad I went to the trouble of posting a link! But, seriously, I understand that finding ACTUAL independent results on any type of insulation is almost impossible. I studied it quite heavily. Even the way the "R" ratings are derived is pretty flawed and don't really reflect the way the entire insulation/wall system functions. Even the phrase "fire resistant" can mean a million things. Fire resistant is great...smoldering and carrying that smolder, not so much.

That particular video was overseen by the Maryland Fire Institute (of which I know nothing) and, while I would have REALLY liked to see the interior construction of the structures used, it is an interesting statement as to how fire travels in a structure and how the breathability of the insulation could affect it.

Even though I can see the smoldering issue of the cellulose as a significant issue, if it really does slow the progress of fire through the structure, I think it's a pretty decent trade off.
 
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awdblazer

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You should have some type of insulation stop/baffle, should have been pretty popular by '85.

You'll have to figure out what kind of insulation you have. Try googling pictures to compare to whats in your attic if you don't know. Given the year of your house there's a small chance it could be vermiculite which in some cases(not all) is contaminated with asbestos. If it is vermiculite, get it tested by a lab to find out. Do not let anyone blow over vermiculite unless you are sure it is clean.

Anyways... Cellulose r-value is rated about 3.5 per inch. Fibreglass 4 per inch. Just measure the depth to find out what you're rated at.

Last question I can't answer without seeing your home. Depending on the size of the joist R-19 may be all that can be put in there.



I don't recall the square footage, so I can't comment on the price, but I wouldn't be giving my business to a guy who thinks insulation stops are a roofers job.



If you have fibreglass in your walls there isn't much you can do other then add a layer of styrofoam outside. Spraying in the walls like your thinking is commonly done for homes with wood shavings in the walls that have settled leaving no insulation at the top of the wall.



Wood chips (and also newspapers) were common as insulation in old homes, think early 1900's when people made due with what they had. There is no fire rating. It's just better then nothing. It's possible that this was just the only option for insulation for many years.



Unless you've got mold or some other damage to the insulation you'd only be causing yourself a lot of work and 'itch' by taking out fibreglass. There isn't anything wrong with fibreglass. Per inch it performs better then cellulose, if you have fibreglass and want more, I'd suggest fibreglass, cellulose is too heavy to be spraying on top.

Both fibreglass and cellulose are fire rated.



It would be a waste of energy to remove the old insulation. The boards are your call.

1060sqft
 

santagary

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I hired someone to blow the cellulose in my shop. the price difference was minimal compared to me doing it and I think it took them a total of 4-5 hours. no muss no fuss.

ditto on my garage...no fuss, no mess and nice and warm when I start the airtight and cool in the summer. I like it and would do it again in a heartbeat. :)
 

jvitez

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look at this link:

http://menards.com/main/store/20090...od_Tech_Spec/1611647Insulmaxcoveragechart.pdf

The tech specs of Menards insulation says to blow in R30 you'll need 46.1 bags.

So, 1060 sq ft x .70= $742 contractor installed. Do the baffles yourself.

You do it: 46 bags at Menards =$303 plus blower rental. Local price $538 with free blower rental (Home Depot).

You're not calling the contractor to have him do it why? :)
 
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awdblazer

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well if i am doing this myself i am not doing cellulose, seems that all the blowers are broken, and its alot more dirtier if your dont know what your doing
but i am still waiting for some other quotes
 
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awdblazer

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what is everyone using for baffles around things like your furnace flue or hwt or exhaust fans? i was told the insulation cannot touch the flue but needs to be 2 inches away from all sides
 

Mr.N

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what is everyone using for baffles around things like your furnace flue or hwt or exhaust fans? i was told the insulation cannot touch the flue but needs to be 2 inches away from all sides
Round Sheet Metal Pipe is my plan: Link
 

buzz4041

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I had mine done by a pro and I couldn't even buy the material for the whole price he charged me. Well worth it having them do it. I actually saved money let alone my time.
 

KPSquared

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I hired a local company. $1.20/sq.ft. for R50 in my ceiling. They blow it thick with the plan that it settles to R50.

There were in and out in an hour.

I've used the rentals and it's NOT worth your time to DIY this one. . .

The baffles I would do yourself. They are gonna charge you a pretty penny because it seriously ***** to do on a 4/12 pitch. It's tight in there.
 

BrunaRibeiro

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home depot sells a leaf blower that also works as a leaf vac you can buy one of those and do the removal on your own. the big this is venting the attic space the best is poly vents in every rafter run and a powered fan pulling air out of attic. the only form of attic insulation that wont need ventilation is spray foam which in my area goes for about $1.80 a sq ft and will do far better than any other type of insulation

VERMICULITE BOARD
http://shop.vitcas.com/
 
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tylernt

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Idaho, US
I think you're asking about the soffit baffles. You definitely need to keep the insulation from blocking your attic ventilation.
Just wanted to re-iterate this. Idiot builder skimped on these when they built my last house. Years later, I had to pay like $2,000 for a mold remediation company to come in because the lack of ventilation allowed moisture to condense on the underside of the roof deck and grow mold in the winter (completely aside from the fact that my A/C bill in summer was higher due to the higher attic temperatures).

Those baffles are critical.
 

BrunaRibeiro

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Most of my customers install insulation in their new construction jobs, and some upgrade their customer's current insulation or replace it when needed. I am just wondering how common it is seen in the field.
 
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monteperformance

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Long Island, NY
If you want to have a good laugh, I recently got a quote to do my 1144 sq. ft attic in Long Island, NY and it was $5100. And that is including a $2200 state incentive. The original price was going to be $7300! That price was including baffles, attic hatch framed out and insulated, and a 4x8 insulated plank to access the air handler. Also included 4 man hours of "air sealing." I will be doing it myself, just trying to decide between the atticat fiberglass blown in, or the cellulose.
 

Duck72

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The area above my single car space (in a 3 car garage) is not insulated at all. I was wondering if adding blown in insulation would help keep it warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. The area is about 10x19 So I probably wouldn't need much. Just wondering if it would be worth the cost. I can get to it via a ceiling access panel. I know that this winter it has been very frigid in there and last summer it was like a sauna.

The area above the 2 car side of the garage is insulated and the master bedroom is above it.
 
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tylernt

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The area above my single car space (in a 3 car garage) is not insulated at all. I was wondering if adding blown in insulation would help keep it warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.

For an un-heated / un-air-conditioned space, all else being equal, insulation will serve to even out the day-night temperature swing. So if it's 90°F during the day and 70° at night, it'll average 80° in an insulated space. At least, if it's perfectly airsealed and you never open the door to go in or out. ;)

If you live in an area like the South where is stays hot/humid even at night during the summer, insulation won't do squat for unconditioned space. (Out here in the desert West, we might see a 100°F day and a 60° night, so insulating an unconditioned space actually works -- especially in the summertime if you leave the windows open all night and close them up at dawn.)

The area is about 10x19 So I probably wouldn't need much. Just wondering if it would be worth the cost.
Don't recall the price off the top of my head right now, but insulation was cheaper than I expected at Home Depot / Lowes when I had to buy some for little patch jobs here and there. But, in Missouri I think you'll need to be actively conditioning the garage with say a space heater or something to show any benefit to insulation.
 
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