Blue Point

[Franz©]

Had the chance today to talk with a 30 year SnapOn dealer I know, and asked him what the deal is with Blue Point.

According to him, when he started Blue Point was mostly SnapOn rejects for finish or minor defect that didn't effect the performance of the tool. The tools that failed inspection early in production were diverted to become Blue Point.

SnapOn over the years got wise to many dealers selling tools from other local jobbers such as Skill, SK and others that did the same job as overpriced SnapOn product and put more $$ in the dealer's pocket. Now, SnapOn regional managers conduct surprize truck audits to make sure SnapOn dealers aren't doing that, and if the dealer is he's subject to loosing his route.

Current Blue Point is from whoever makes the tool or set to SnapOn's specs, and other than passing thru SnapOn's distribution system have no affiliation with SnapOn. He showed me a wrench set, $349- in the nice plastic case. The case is made in Mexico and the wrenches were made in Taiwan. He also tells me some mainland China stuff is beginning to come into the system. According to SnapOn it is all slightly superior to Box Store tools.

 

[strizzy]

As long as it wasn't Genn...

 

[wilbilt]

I don't buy the "reject" story.
Originally, the only tools branded "Snap-On" were the sockets and drive tools. Wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, etc. were branded "Blue Point".

Eventually, all of the general purpose hand tools carried the Snap-On brand, but electric tools and many consumable items carried the Blue Point label well into the 1980s.

It is only recently that Blue Point has emerged as a separate, competing line of tools.

 

[wrenchr]

I agree with wilbit.

 

[wrenchr]

Wilbilt......

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

I don't buy the "reject" story.
Originally, the only tools branded "Snap-On" were the sockets and drive tools. Wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, etc. were branded "Blue Point".

Eventually, all of the general purpose hand tools carried the Snap-On brand, but electric tools and many consumable items carried the Blue Point label well into the 1980s.

It is only recently that Blue Point has emerged as a separate, competing line of tools.

Correct...

A lot of Blue Point tools are tools that Snap-On doesn't make, so they are outsourced to other companies. The same holds true for some Snap-On tools, but most of the Blue Point isn't made by Snap On. It's all good stuff IMO, I have never had a Snap On or Blue Point tool that I was disappointed in.

 

[ColdDuckTime]

Correct...

A lot of Blue Point tools are tools that Snap-On doesn't make, so they are outsourced to other companies. The same holds true for some Snap-On tools, but most of the Blue Point isn't made by Snap On. It's all good stuff IMO, I have never had a Snap On or Blue Point tool that I was disappointed in.

How much longer until Snap On is a distribution company which spec's and resells tools built by specialty manufacturers (not that they don't do that already, I mean 100%)? There's so many trends leading away from vertical integration, I'm always suprised when you find it in a few places.

 

[Theo]

How much longer until Snap On is a distribution company which spec's and resells tools built by specialty manufacturers (not that they don't do that already, I mean 100%)? There's so many trends leading away from vertical integration, I'm always suprised when you find it in a few places.

I don't think we'll see that. In recent years Snap On have purchased many of the manufacturers they used to source from (CDI, Sandvik Saw & Tool.) Yes they technically "buy" from specialty manufacturers, but they happen to own them.

The interesting this about Snap On Global Tools (I think "off shore" is a misnomer in this case) is many of them come from Snap On facilities.

Examples of Global Tools made in Snap On Facilities

Files - Portugal
Some Adjustable Wrenches - Spain
Band Saw Blades - UK and Russia
Hole Saws - UK/Sweden
Lifts and Equipment - Canada
Pliers - France

These are state of the art, (and in most cases unionized) facilities.

All that said they do get into the distribution business as well. You can clerly see they sell other brands in their catalog.

 

[-lecroix-]

What does "state of the art" and "unionized" have to do with one another?

One is good ... the other not so much.

 

[Theo]

State of the Art = Modern Plant

Unionized = Not a Sweat Shop

Thanks for asking for clarification, and I think I understand where you are coming from. The terms are not always mutually interchangeable!

 

[Amarkel]

I though they were called "Blue Point" because back in the day they were not chromed and the heat treating "blued" the steel at the points.

I would never expect a tool company to manufacture every tool in the catalog. I asked a chef once on how can I tell if a resturant is any good. He said the smaller the menu, the better the food. Because, if they try to be all things to all people, quality will suffer. With tools, you have to look at your purchases the same way.

 

[-lecroix-]

Don't fool yourself into thinking that just because a manufacturing facility is unionized that it's NOT a sweat shop.

 

[Jononon]

Examples of Global Tools made in Snap On Facilities

Files - Portugal
Some Adjustable Wrenches - Spain
Band Saw Blades - UK and Russia
Hole Saws - UK/Sweden
Lifts and Equipment - Canada
Pliers - France

These are state of the art, (and in most cases unionized) facilities.

I'm sure only the most rabidly patriotic would have a problem with SnapOn producing some items in Europe. However, SnapOn's hole saw factory, formerly part of Bahco, in Sheffield, England, is more like state of the ark. But that's ok, because SnapOn is moving production to China (as it did with blades in '99.) The wreckers have already moved in to the plant, no doubt ahead of sending the scrap to our far Eastern friends.

I'm sure their Chinese factories are 'state of the art' and 'unionized', right ?

(yes, I am quite cross about this)

 

[Theo]

I'm sure only the most rabidly patriotic would have a problem with SnapOn producing some items in Europe. However, SnapOn's hole saw factory, formerly part of Bahco, in Sheffield, England, is more like state of the ark. But that's ok, because SnapOn is moving production to China (as it did with blades in '99.) The wreckers have already moved in to the plant, no doubt ahead of sending the scrap to our far Eastern friends.

I'm sure their Chinese factories are 'state of the art' and 'unionized', right ?

(yes, I am quite cross about this)

Jononon,

Yes, some Snap On customers would have a problem buying Euro Tools. I think that why the core products are proudly "Made in USA"

I'd be interested to hear more about what you know about Snap On in Europe.

To my knowledge the hole saw factory is in Rotherham, South Yorkshire rather than Sheffield. It was built in the 90's and is the main PC for bandsaw blades and holesaws. Prior to that Hole Saws were made in Enkoping, Sweden.

There is also a factory in Belarus that produces band saw blades mainly for India and China.

Our information seems to conflict a bit, but I'm not making any claims. I'd love to hear more about what you know.

 

[Theo]

Don't fool yourself into thinking that just because a manufacturing facility is unionized that it's NOT a sweat shop.

I work in the manufacturing industry and have seen all sorts of conditions. Some I would consider cushy and others looked like more difficult or demanding work than I'd ever choose to do.

I've seen unionized plants where the workers were certainly working very hard and under pressure to produce and didn't seem content.

Personally I have never seen a "sweat shop" first hand but some of my peers have seen facilities over seas that effected them pretty deeply.

Busting your *** to make sure all the widgets get out by the end of that day is quite different than 3 generations of a family working side by side for a wage that any of us would consider spare change, for 12-18 hours a day.

All I was trying to say is that the products are made in an ethical fashion.

 

[-lecroix-]

I'm in manufacturing too and I know what you were trying to say. You just made the mistake of bringing up unions.

 

[Jononon]

To my knowledge the hole saw factory is in Rotherham, South Yorkshire rather than Sheffield.

It's actually in Bramley, just off the M18, I thought a few people might know where Sheffield is

It was built in the 90's and is the main PC for bandsaw blades and holesaws. Prior to that Hole Saws were made in Enkoping, Sweden.

It was, and it was a very expensive factory at the time, almost certainly the best in the world*, but it's showing its age. Distribution will remain at Bahco Metal Saws, as will bandsaw production, but I'm, I would like to think reliably, told by someone there that SnapOn have sent out an engineering consultancy to implement their QC standards with a Chinese sub-contractor. The hole saw line is certainly being dismantled, I'll eat my hat if a major reinvestment follows.

The terms of the sale and leaseback (this is where I am involved, on the finance side and, yes, I'm a hypocrite, without one of our companies a lot of industrial sites would still be worth more as factories than as development land) allow redevelopment of Moorhead Way in 2010. I'm not privvy to what's going to happen then, but I would suspect the site will be redeveloped for non-industrial use.

The workers are of the view that the writing's been on the wall since 2003, when SnapOn reneged on a pay and conditions package agreed with Amicus (the dominant union) and, following industrial action, cancelled their investment package.

*this is why I find it crazy that some US consumers begrudge European products. We are actually better at making some things, our factory workers get to spend lunch in the cafeteria, rather than going back to their dormitories at midnight for a bowl of rice, and we're never likely to have the strength, in the products we do export, to massively skew America's balance of trade. But, hey, keep supporting the Chinese, they've been your allies for decades, right ?

 

[kythri]

According to SnapOn it is all slightly superior to Box Store tools.

Of course it is.

 

[kythri]

Busting your *** to make sure all the widgets get out by the end of that day is quite different than 3 generations of a family working side by side for a wage that any of us would consider spare change, for 12-18 hours a day.

You do realize that in many places, the alternative to this labor is an order of magnitude worse, right?

Different economies demand different wages. Were foriegn factories forced to pay US-wages to the employees, the economy of that nation would be destroyed.

All I was trying to say is that the products are made in an ethical fashion.

Union's aren't ethical. So-called "sweatshops" usually are (or at least more ethical than the unions).

 

[ColdDuckTime]

It's actually in Bramley, just off the M18, I thought a few people might know where Sheffield is


...
*this is why I find it crazy that some US consumers begrudge European products. We are actually better at making some things, our factory workers get to spend lunch in the cafeteria, rather than going back to their dormitories at midnight for a bowl of rice, and we're never likely to have the strength, in the products we do export, to massively skew America's balance of trade. But, hey, keep supporting the Chinese, they've been your allies for decades, right ?

Personally, I'm fine with buying products from Europe. In some cases (wind instruments being a great example), the US has largely blown out of the market for some reason.

I wonder what structural or social differences there are in (for instance) Germany that allow a positive balance of trade vs. the US's ability to spew money all over the world...and that's even with a falling dollar and a Chinese currency that, so far as I know, is still pretty much tied to it.


Oh well, people, by and large, deserve the government they have...including the behavior of their peer group.

 

[Theo]

Quote
Union's aren't ethical. So-called "sweatshops" usually are (or at least more ethical than the unions).

I was with you until you posted that gem. Care to back that up with some facts?

 

[Theo]

It's actually in Bramley, just off the M18, I thought a few people might know where Sheffield is



It was, and it was a very expensive factory at the time, almost certainly the best in the world*, but it's showing its age. Distribution will remain at Bahco Metal Saws, as will bandsaw production, but I'm, I would like to think reliably, told by someone there that SnapOn have sent out an engineering consultancy to implement their QC standards with a Chinese sub-contractor. The hole saw line is certainly being dismantled, I'll eat my hat if a major reinvestment follows.

The terms of the sale and leaseback (this is where I am involved, on the finance side and, yes, I'm a hypocrite, without one of our companies a lot of industrial sites would still be worth more as factories than as development land) allow redevelopment of Moorhead Way in 2010. I'm not privvy to what's going to happen then, but I would suspect the site will be redeveloped for non-industrial use.

The workers are of the view that the writing's been on the wall since 2003, when SnapOn reneged on a pay and conditions package agreed with Amicus (the dominant union) and, following industrial action, cancelled their investment package.

*this is why I find it crazy that some US consumers begrudge European products. We are actually better at making some things, our factory workers get to spend lunch in the cafeteria, rather than going back to their dormitories at midnight for a bowl of rice, and we're never likely to have the strength, in the products we do export, to massively skew America's balance of trade. But, hey, keep supporting the Chinese, they've been your allies for decades, right ?

Thanks Jononon, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Junkman]

I have a set of Blue Point Metric wrenches that are about 10 years old, and they are not as well chromed, and the steel that they are manufactured from isn't as good a quality. I would rather pay the difference and buy a Snap-On tool than a Blue Point tool as a result of the poor performance of these wrenches. You can beat on a Snap-On wrench with a hammer and not harm it, but try that with the Blue Point, and you will see every mark. I am not saying that I abuse my tools often, but sometimes you have no other choice. The wrench in question was subject to one of those times that I had no other choice.

 

[84TurboBuick]

I've got a set of the Blue Point ratcheting wrenches in both Metric and Standard and I've got to say they are far better than anything else I've seen or used before.

 

[wilbilt]

I have a set of Blue Point Metric wrenches that are about 10 years old, and they are not as well chromed, and the steel that they are manufactured from isn't as good a quality. I would rather pay the difference and buy a Snap-On tool than a Blue Point tool as a result of the poor performance of these wrenches.

That's funny, as I have a Blue Point wrench (used to have the whole set) that is at least 60 years old and bears a Snap_On part number (OEX40). It is obviously forged from the same blank as later SO long combinations, but has an industrial finish instead of chrome like my later SO wrenches.

I guess I must assume they switched production to an inferior quality steel for those crappy BP wrenches, yet used the same part number...

 

[kythri]

I was with you until you posted that gem. Care to back that up with some facts?

Let's see...

In the last 5 years, I've seen the heads of SEIU, CWA and Teamsters (and I'm sure there have been others) hold press conferences, condemning the salaries that CEOs are making, while these fat-cat shysters are pulling in comparable salaries.

But that's ethical.

I've worked in union shops. The unions don't care about their employees. The representatives and union management care about maintaining their own little personal fiefdoms, and God forbid that management wants to terminate a guy who sleeps on his shift - can't do that, it's against our union contract!

But that's ethical.

Tell you what - if you're interested in facts to back up my claims, I'll turn that request back around on you.

You're the one that claimed that non-union shops are sweatshops, and that union's manufacture products in an ethical fashion (insinuating that non-union shops are unethical).

Post some facts to back that up, and I might do the same.

 

[Junkman]

I have never seen any post that discussed unions vs. non union stay civil for any length of time. Why not just drop the whole union / non union discussion and keep this thread going in a direction that we can all contribute to. Anything less is just going to get some members angry at each other, and in the end, the thread is going to be locked. Junk......

 

[Uncle Buck]

I have never seen any post that discussed unions vs. non union stay civil for any length of time. Why not just drop the whole union / non union discussion and keep this thread going in a direction that we can all contribute to. Anything less is just going to get some members angry at each other, and in the end, the thread is going to be locked. Junk......

TRUE TRUE, UNIONS, POLITICS, AND RELIGION! I have strong feelings about all three however I do not come here to discuss them, and I am also not interested in reading about them here, I am with junk on this.

 

[Theo]

Cool.

Funny thing about the history of Blue Point is "teh intarweb" doesn't have much info on the subject.

It's the first time the internet has let me down...

 

[wilbilt]

Cool.

Funny thing about the history of Blue Point is "teh intarweb" doesn't have much info on the subject.

It's the first time the internet has let me down...

There used to be some info on the Alloy Artifacts site. Does anyone know where that site went? I get a Comcast 404 when I try to access it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

There used to be some info on the Alloy Artifacts site. Does anyone know where that site went? I get a Comcast 404 when I try to access it.

Damn! I had that site in my favorites, and I usually hit it once or twice a month, I hope it come back. I know I would miss it.

 

[eschoendorff]

Personally, I'm fine with buying products from Europe. In some cases (wind instruments being a great example), the US has largely blown out of the market for some reason.

Ain't that the truth! I still have to post pics of the new "tools" i've bought lately...

 

[chevy302dz]

Here's the new URL for the alloy artifacts site, they seem to have had some issues with their web hosting service.

http://alloy-artifacts.com/index.html

 

[Kurn]

I have a 1/2" impact branded Blue Point that is identical to a CP734.I bought it in the early 80s from Snap On.At that time the dealer said Blue Point was just Snap On's second line.

 

[wilbilt]

Here's the new URL for the alloy artifacts site, they seem to have had some issues with their web hosting service.

http://alloy-artifacts.com/index.html

Thanks for that!

 

[Uncle Buck]

Here's the new URL for the alloy artifacts site, they seem to have had some issues with their web hosting service.

http://alloy-artifacts.com/index.html

Nuther big thanks shout out here!