boiler drain valves...

[dogdog]

needed to replace the boiler drain valve washer on my steam boiler...one is just a regular 3/4 MIP to 3/4 MHT and the other is a bit different... anyways it uses rubber washers, and they have disintegrated...

one looked like this one. washer looks standard.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/THEWORK...Threaded-Boiler-Drain-Valve-LFBV173/310003347


the other I am not sure if I can find washer and packing for this one...
https://www.lowes.com/pd/CAMCO-WTR-HTR-DRAIN-VALVE-BRASS/1002891560


1) If I were to replace the packing and washer... are these regular washers and packing ? or they are specialized higher temperature ones ?

who would stock them?

2) Is 1/4 turn ball valve recommend for these ? They sell them but not sure if it is recommend to use on steam boilers.

 

[Jackfre]

Well, seeing as you have a steam system, there is very likely a local distributor who handles these products, but steam systems are rare in Miami, so...

 

[dogdog]

yeah steam, the most reliable, the most in-efficient , also the most rustiest I have seen... clogs up my sensors every year, I have to take out and clear/clean then it works fine, new boilers(2008 Burnham IN8), but main pipes are older. Cast iron radiators are probably 1930s.... I just remember the washer might be different but don't remember the exact details... Figure I asked about the packing and washers in these valves... if they are different or just the same thing.

 

[BD1]

Avoid those cheap hose bib drains.
Get a 1/4 turn steam rated ball valve, a ******, and hose bib fittings. Male pipe thread x she bib.
We use all Apollo Valves. Here's an example.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Apollo-...MIvaHW89217AIViIbACh20WAiZEAQYASABEgL-7PD_BwE

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[dogdog]

Avoid those cheap hose bib drains.
Get a 1/4 turn steam rated ball valve, a ******, and hose bib fittings. Male pipe thread x she bib.
We use all Apollo Valves. Here's an example.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Apollo-...MIvaHW89217AIViIbACh20WAiZEAQYASABEgL-7PD_BwE

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spec on that one looks good as the temp is rated for steam and above.... but might be too large to fit it on the drain side... without a lot of the body protruding... I think I have few apollo in the scrap/spare bins let me check if it is the same series... thanks for the suggestion... let me check them out and see how it applies... also have to go see if they sell those washers for steam boiler application... if they do then all my problems are solved for next 10 years. hopefully...

here is a pic of what I took off... the valves came with the boiler new and steam rated at least it says so.... only needed washers, they are harden and cracked. or I can upgrade. the problem like you mentioned. most are rated for 230F which is not for steam or the spec just don't mention max temp at all..Not sure.... they look just like regular valves, but probably the washer and packing is different material... but not sure. hoping some one remember these things, but I'll run a few plumbing places tomorrow and see.

the one one the left of pic is the hot water drain... seems and looks like the one they sell in link again not too sure.but should be ok since the water is 212 boiling. it's at the lowest point of the boiler.

The one on the right is a Muller steam rated boiler drain valve... not sure.. this one is above the water and see both hot water and hot steam sometimes dependent on the water level of cause. I used it to skim the boiler once every other year or every year... dependents on the wild hair....

 

[BD1]

Remember, your application technically is not steam . The drain is for the water in the boiler. The valve is not on the steam side like it would be used before a steam trap or a blowdown valve.


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[dogdog]

Remember, your application technically is not steam . The drain is for the water in the boiler. The valve is not on the steam side like it would be used before a steam trap or a blowdown valve.


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steam boilers runs a bit hotter in steam mode than in hydronic mode.. while residential steam boilers are very low psi, I run them no more than 5PSI before it cuts out on the pressurtrol (max is 15PSI before it have mechanical pressure relief)... the temp of water still boils at 212F most boiler valves have 180F rating or so rating... which is concerning. especially the temp of dirty rusty water is probably a few degrees more before it boils.


I went to few local plumbing supplies, one supplies commercial buildings to ones that is joe blows... man no one seems to be stocking those washers... probably low value items that doesn't bring them $$$$. so Not sure if they are just regular washers or something like special cut silicon rubber ones. Still can't find a definite answer for this.

For one of the drain valves (the ones on the right in pic) I did bough a set of brass fittings and Watts brand full port ball valves that have the WOG of 600 and WSP of 150... and temp rated at 400F.. but dang... 5 piece of brass to make it fit almost $70....that is 4" ******, 2x street elbow , the valve and the MHT to fit hoses....copper would have been cheaper.

yea no steam trap on residential stuff... just valves, and pressuretrols for safety.

 

[BD1]

You do have steam traps in radiators and coils.


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[claymont]

You're over thinking this These valves are only going to see hot water; if they see steam, you've got more problems than worrying about steam degrading the washers. As long as the internal brass parts are in good shape, put on new washers and save yourself some money.

steam boilers runs a bit hotter in steam mode than in hydronic mode.. while residential steam boilers are very low psi, I run them no more than 5PSI before it cuts out on the pressurtrol (max is 15PSI before it have mechanical pressure relief)... the temp of water still boils at 212F most boiler valves have 180F rating or so rating... which is concerning. especially the temp of dirty rusty water is probably a few degrees more before it boils.


I went to few local plumbing supplies, one supplies commercial buildings to ones that is joe blows... man no one seems to be stocking those washers... probably low value items that doesn't bring them $$$$. so Not sure if they are just regular washers or something like special cut silicon rubber ones. Still can't find a definite answer for this.

For one of the drain valves (the ones on the right in pic) I did bough a set of brass fittings and Watts brand full port ball valves that have the WOG of 600 and WSP of 150... and temp rated at 400F.. but dang... 5 piece of brass to make it fit almost $70....that is 4" ******, 2x street elbow , the valve and the MHT to fit hoses....copper would have been cheaper.

yea no steam trap on residential stuff... just valves, and pressuretrols for safety.

 

[dogdog]

You're over thinking this These valves are only going to see hot water; if they see steam, you've got more problems than worrying about steam degrading the washers. As long as the internal brass parts are in good shape, put on new washers and save yourself some money.

one of the valve the one on the left in pic, does see steam for a few moments when it is open before it is being fill up to the top for skim ...

Not sure... seems it is a concern, seems like it is not. the more I know, the more I don't know... washer is not a hot replacement commodity I guess. HD/Lowes/HF does have regular washer replacements, Danco brand I think... it just say high temp resistance but not sure what the temp rating is.


as far as steam degrading valve washers... it is a real thing.. had one generic cheap brand valve at the radiator that is completely MIA after about 5 years. probably from crappy rubber degrading and steam both... who knows.

anyways. I am going to try to replace it with regular and see... at least if this one fails, it's just a suna room and not flooded with gallons of water room

 

[dogdog]

You do have steam traps in radiators and coils.


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yes those radiator valves or air vents..... but nothing at the boiler... Even those are going out of business like flies, I think maid-o'-mist was the more popular brand..... I think it was down to 1 or 2 brand only now even that disappeared... and generic looking one are replacing it.

 

[dogdog]

yup seems like there is such thing as specialty washers for higher temp than regular rubber rated at 200 degF... the PTFE is rated for 500degF.. finally got the right search term for this. I ain't delusional after all

https://www.mcmaster.com/ptfe-faucet-washers/

$8 for the 11/16 pack of 10... except I don't know how much shipping is.

 

[metlmunchr]

McMaster's shipping is cheap. They don't use shipping charges as an additional profit center like a lot of companies do today.

FWIW, if a boiler is operating at 5 psi steam pressure then the water in the boiler will be at the same temperature as 5 psi saturated steam which is between 225 and 230 degrees F.