Bonding a Gas Line

[mrramsey]

Calling on the electricians... I had my heater inspected today mechanical passed but he made one comment that I want to follow through on. He said to Bond the gas line since there was csst connecting the gas line to the heater.

There is other csst in the house so I want to get it done. I need a bonding clamp and some 6ga copper wire. I can bond it at the panel since it is right next to my water heater. All of my water lines are bonded but the gas is not. My question is this. Since my panel is quite full would it be acceptable to use a split nut on one of the 4 6 gauge ground wire going into the panel to make the bond to the black iron pipe?

 

[mrramsey]

Would love to just add a bonding clamp to the gas line at the right and tie it to the #6 bare on the joist at the left.

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[nsula_country]

Communication companies split bolt their grounds to the ground wire at the service entrance all the time. No idea if it is code or even is the same situation you are seeking information on.

subscribed to see the responses come in...

CT

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

generally you want to bond with a clamp to the regulator outside, and on the utility side of the regulator. Where the regulator is outside, is the Service nearby? If so, and you have an inter bond below the meter, just come out of that. If no interbond, split bolt to the ground wire coming out of the meter can. If none of these are an option, then split bolt to the 6 in the picture and clamp to the pipe, it’s better than nothing.

 

[mrramsey]

generally you want to bond with a clamp to the regulator outside, and on the utility side of the regulator. Where the regulator is outside, is the Service nearby? If so, and you have an inter bond below the meter, just come out of that. If no interbond, split bolt to the ground wire coming out of the meter can. If none of these are an option, then split bolt to the 6 in the picture and clamp to the pipe, it’s better than nothing.

Yeah the inspector just said it had to be bonded anywhere on the main gas line up stream of the csst back to the panel. I just don't see much of a difference if I attach it to a like sized ground 2' from the panel as opposed to going in the panel.

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[sberry]

All that metal pipe needs to be bonded.

 

[ambenz]

....I just don't see much of a difference if I attach it to a like sized ground 2' from the panel as opposed to going in the panel....

There is always a reason for their madness...mostly consistenecy.
If a future electrician walks into your panel for repairs, he can understand everything going on because every one he sees is the same.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

How close it to where the water service enters building?
I usually bond it to street side of service past meter if it's close.

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

From NEC, 250.104 (B)

(B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to any of the following:
(1) 
Equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system
(2) 
Service equipment enclosure
(3) 
Grounded conductor at the service
(4) 
Grounding electrode conductor, if of sufficient size
(5) 
One or more grounding electrodes used
The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

Basically, if the gas line was in, say, a generator, you could bond it to the generator. But since it’s piping thru the house, you need to bond it to the House Service ground.. if that ground wire in your picture is running to/from your service panel, and you can verify visually that it is connected to the ground bus inside the panel, then you would be fine to split bolt to it.

 

[mrramsey]

Basically, if the gas line was in, say, a generator, you could bond it to the generator. But since it’s piping thru the house, you need to bond it to the House Service ground.. if that ground wire in your picture is running to/from your service panel, and you can verify visually that it is connected to the ground bus inside the panel, then you would be fine to split bolt to it.

Yes that is exactly it. There are 4 #6 bare copper grounds coming out of the panel. Two bond the water lines one is the meter and the other is the ground out side.

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[Stuff]

Is it CSST or flexible appliance connector at the furnace? CSST needs special bonding as each brand has its own approved methods.

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

Yes that is exactly it. There are 4 #6 bare copper grounds coming out of the panel. Two bond the water lines one is the meter and the other is the ground out side.

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Then go for it. You’ll be fine.

 

[biggziff]

http://www.csstsafety.com/Images/CSST-Direct-Bonding-Tech-Bulletin.pdf

 

[wyliesdiesels]

generally you want to bond with a clamp to the regulator outside, and on the utility side of the regulator. Where the regulator is outside, is the Service nearby? If so, and you have an inter bond below the meter, just come out of that. If no interbond, split bolt to the ground wire coming out of the meter can. If none of these are an option, then split bolt to the 6 in the picture and clamp to the pipe, it’s better than nothing.

Never bond to utility side of natural gas line.

Any bonding should be done on load side of gas meter.

The reason being the possibility of an arc and resultant explosion when gas company removes meter to replace it or the regulator.

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

Never bond to utility side of natural gas line.

Any bonding should be done on load side of gas meter.

The reason being the possibility of an arc and resultant explosion when gas company removes meter to replace it or the regulator.

Yup, I typed the wrong thing.... I meant the house side, good catch.

 

[matt151617]

Not to thread hijack, but does all gas line need to be bonded? I asked my HVAC guy about this when I transitioned from oil to gas, and he said it wasn't necessary.

 

[mrramsey]

Not to thread hijack, but does all gas line need to be bonded? I asked my HVAC guy about this when I transitioned from oil to gas, and he said it wasn't necessary.

Just when CSST tubing is used in the system. I.E. the flexible tubing that appliances are connected with...

If all of your appliances are hard piped it is not required.

The reason that was explained to me was that if your house was struck by lightening there is a potential for an arc inside of the CSST that could burn a pinhole through the line. Creating a fire / explosion hazard.




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[sberry]

Any metal, piping, duct work, any piece that has the potential to become energized needs to be grounded,,, period, gas, oil, water, doesnt matter.
The man quoted it in post 9 above.

 

[Cmreschke]

Most gas piping is already electrically bonded thru your furnace circuits ground wire. Csst requires a separate bonding conductor installed per manufacturers recomendatiin.

 

[matt151617]

Most gas piping is already electrically bonded thru your furnace circuits ground wire. Csst requires a separate bonding conductor installed per manufacturers recomendatiin.

Alright, so I think there's some confusion between CSST and an appliance connector. CSST has "replaced" iron pipe going to furnaces, etc, while an appliance connector is the corrugated yellow tube that connects an appliance to a pipe.

Since I have 3 CSST distributions coming off of the main iron gas line coming in to the house, as long as I bond the main gas line to the electrical ground, I should be covered.

Here's a good article about proper bonding requirements, and the difference between CSST and an appliance connector:

http://structuretech1.com/csst-bonding-update/

 

[Moto]

From NEC, 250.104 (B)

(B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to any of the following:
(1) 
Equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system
(2) 
Service equipment enclosure
(3) 
Grounded conductor at the service
(4) 
Grounding electrode conductor, if of sufficient size
(5) 
One or more grounding electrodes used
The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

Electric codes can be tough to read sometimes. You might read that section, expecting it to say "Any metal, piping, duct work, any piece that has the potential to become energized needs to be grounded", and conclude that it says that.

But it does not. It only requires bonding when the pipe is likely to be energized.

I do not know why the code specifies that. I should think if a pipe is likely to be energized, that is a problem and merely bonding the pipe is not a satisfactory fix. They really ought to hire some technical writers to help make the code comprehensible.

Back to the situation at hand. CSST is required to be bonded, but that is by the gas code. The gas fitter should be attending to that, not the electrician.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Electric codes can be tough to read sometimes. You might read that section, expecting it to say "Any metal, piping, duct work, any piece that has the potential to become energized needs to be grounded", and conclude that it says that.

But it does not. It only requires bonding when the pipe is likely to be energized.

I do not know why the code specifies that. I should think if a pipe is likely to be energized, that is a problem and merely bonding the pipe is not a satisfactory fix. They really ought to hire some technical writers to help make the code comprehensible.

Back to the situation at hand. CSST is required to be bonded, but that is by the gas code. The gas fitter should be attending to that, not the electrician.

As you can imagine, there is much debate on this subject on the code discussion boards.

Some feel that bonding is achieved via the ground pin on attachment plugs for appliances such as gas furnace and gas stove.

But what if a house has all electric appliances and the only gas equipment is a water heater?

Or what if the only gas appliance was a gas stove and during a remodel it was switched it out for an electric range?

If the only bonding in either of those situations was via an attachment plug, then that was removed and now the gas line is left unbonded.

Occasionally I will see water heaters with bonding between hot cold and gas line.

My standard practice out here is to bond just past meter. CSST is not used out here....

 

[dscheidt]

Electric codes can be tough to read sometimes. You might read that section, expecting it to say "Any metal, piping, duct work, any piece that has the potential to become energized needs to be grounded", and conclude that it says that.

But it does not. It only requires bonding when the pipe is likely to be energized.

I do not know why the code specifies that. I should think if a pipe is likely to be energized, that is a problem and merely bonding the pipe is not a satisfactory fix. They really ought to hire some technical writers to help make the code comprehensible.

Back to the situation at hand. CSST is required to be bonded, but that is by the gas code. The gas fitter should be attending to that, not the electrician.

It is -- as explained to me by more than one electrical inspector -- likely to be energized if it's got line voltage electricity supplying it. The ground of the appliance usually suffices, but some places consider anything that plugs in (like a range) as a reason to bond the gas lines.

As for who does that, that depends on where you live. Some places don't let plumbers play with electricity.

 

[sberry]

They want it bonded so no matter what, any wire contact anywhere, any fault from equipment and its grounded.