Bonney ratchet question...

[ganymede]

Anyone know where this style ratchet belongs in Bonney history ?
All I know is that it's before the Rozmus patent (1966).
From 59 to 61 there were a couple of patents ( by Hare ) using those stamped cover plates. If it was after them and before Rozmus then they went through 3 ratchet designs in 8 yrs.
I've seen some pre 1959 ads and the drive tools all have knurled handles.
So I'm wondering when these things date too.
The guts come out as one unit and are held in with a snap ring. The pawl is a single piece of rectangular metal and slides side to side in a groove.

 

[wrenchr]

No help but that is cool, now I must find one!! Pic of the other side?

 

[ganymede]

Thanks .
At only 36 teeth it's kinda course for a round head. Spring is stiff too but you never know... There may arise some weird situation where it will work nicely.

 

[wrenchr]

Interested in a trade? I'm a huge bonney fan and would like to add that to my collection.

 

[wrenchr]

I'm thinking SK sourced.

 

[ganymede]

Thanks for offering but I think I'll hang on to it for a while .
Anyway, the pawl is different than an sk. It doesn't pivot, just slides back n forth.
Edit: here's a pic of the guts removed. The pawl doesn't even have teeth or a step in it, just a chunk of steel.

 

[CRTDI]

I have a similar ratchet with a bit different selector.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273680&page=4&highlight=bonney

 

[bonneyman]

I have an older Walden ratcheting adapter that had a sliding pawl similar to that. Monster slab of steel resting on a platform. not the smoothest action, or easy to reverse, but freaking bulletproof. Sorry no internal pics.

 

[PowderKeg]

Gany, I'm thinking early-mid 1950's, as that coincides with the streamlined wrench style that AA discusses at some length. The 1960 Hare patent ratchet - applied for in 1957 (bottom of the pic) - has the simpler outline design pattern which came after the streamlined. The ratchet at the top of the pic is a V700, which I'm making an edu-macated guess came just before the three 701 series ratchets below it, in the very early 50's.

The three-set of 701's (A701, T701, & V701) and the "oddball" V701 1/4" with the chromed knurled grip are all the same gut design as yours. I'm gonna make another guess that the single bar on yours and my "oddball" was a variation/improvement - those 4 little short ones are harder to grasp and turn/switch with fingertips than the larger single bar.

 

[ganymede]

I have a similar ratchet with a bit different selector.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273680&page=4&highlight=bonney

Wow, that's a beautiful set. The logo is perfect.

I have an older Walden ratcheting adapter that had a sliding pawl similar to that. Monster slab of steel resting on a platform. not the smoothest action, or easy to reverse, but freaking bulletproof. Sorry no internal pics.

I thought the same thing when I saw inside this ratchet, that lack of strength is not the reason they stopped making that design.
They just had to keep making finer tooth ratchets to stay ahead.
Blackhawk and Duro also had sliding pawl designs.
I think they were from the 50's too.

Gany, I'm thinking early-mid 1950's, as that coincides with the streamlined wrench style that AA discusses at some length. The 1960 Hare patent ratchet - applied for in 1957 (bottom of the pic) - has the simpler outline design pattern which came after the streamlined. The ratchet at the top of the pic is a V700, which I'm making an edu-macated guess came just before the three 701 series ratchets below it, in the very early 50's.

The three-set of 701's (A701, T701, & V701) and the "oddball" V701 1/4" with the chromed knurled grip are all the same gut design as yours. I'm gonna make another guess that the single bar on yours and my "oddball" was a variation/improvement - those 4 little short ones are harder to grasp and turn/switch with fingertips than the larger single bar.

Thanks Powderkeg. Nice grouping there!
Mid 50"s sounds good to me.

 

[3baygarage]

I hate to throw another wrench in the works guys. This Dayton 1/4" drive to be exact.

Gany, thanks for making me finally open 'er up (just bought it this winter). At first I was thinking S-K as well and then I remembered the Bonney 701 type with snap rings like Kegger's above.

This baby has 36 teeth, tall protruding reverse lever, and sliding pawl as well!

Now I'm sure this is Bonney made. Thanks guys!

And on top of it I got to play with my new old K-D snap ring pliers just purchased today.

 

[3baygarage]

Keg, I forgot to mention great collection as well. I would think the Dayton and your single tab V701 have to be brothers, if the same tooth count that is.

Strange thing about the Dayton is no part #. It looks like there is but actually says CHGO USA (Chicago). I do recall a pear head Bonney that also came in Dayton and Herbrand:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201896

Strange no part numbers there either.

 

[PowderKeg]

I hate to throw another wrench in the works guys. This Dayton 1/4" drive to be exact.

Oh now that's a goodun' 3bay, that's been a very elusive Dayton ratchet style for me - saw (and missed) one on da' 'bay several years ago, was a 1/2" or 3/8" with the four small nubs and a styled beam/handle like the 701 three-set above. I'm sure there's been a few others I've seen (and missed), but the fleabay one just stays stuck in memory - probably 'cause I lost track of the ending time, missed bidding, and it sold within my cheap @zz range. Saw and missed at least one with the Hare round head too

The grip on yours appears to be the same as a Bon-e-con I have, but has the Hare round head rather than the single slider gut set.

All-too-often I'm either a day late or (several) dollars short...

 

[PowderKeg]

Keg, I forgot to mention great collection as well. I would think the Dayton and your single tab V701 have to be brothers, if the same tooth count that is.

Strange thing about the Dayton is no part #. It looks like there is but actually says CHGO USA (Chicago). I do recall a pear head Bonney that also came in Dayton and Herbrand:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201896

Strange no part numbers there either.

Yeah, none of the Bonney sourced Daytons I have - couple of the later Rozmus round heads and a pearhead as in your link - have #'s either. When Dayton went to sourcing ratchets from Thorsen, they did put part #'s on the beam.

 

[sk farmer]

a little side track but here is my dayton set and the comparable bonney ratchets.

 

[ganymede]

Some drool worthy iron in this thread.
I gotta keep my eyes peeled for one of those stamped cover Hare Patent rats.!

 

[3baygarage]

I need to be schooled on the Bonney patents. These names are all new to me.

So S-K Farmer's are the Hare patent.

Very nice by the way.

 

[CRTDI]

Another Bonney (ish) ratchet disguised as a Vi-Chrome.

 

[bonneyman]

Here's my Bonney sweetheart rat in 3/8". I believe it's a 1957ish design.

 

[tpm2]

How do you all feel about threads being revived? I am new here

My Father has a Bonney 701 that he got new in either July or December 1960. It has the 4 tab selector, smooth handle and the drop-in style guts. No date codes. Long story, his was frozen up so I picked up and identical one on flee-bay for parts. Also, no date codes. So, I looked up the other A701's sold on there, no date codes!

I found the 4 tab selector, smooth handled A701 in the '57 and '60 Bonney catalogs on page 19 in both. The '57 catalog has the following text that the 1960 does not, "The Bonney reversible ratchet with the replace¬able unit. With this unique unit it is possible to perform field repairs in a matter of seconds by merely removing the snap ring and inserting the preassembled re¬ placement unit."

Has anyone found anything more on the A701?

And, I just bought an A700, date code H:O. Same style guts but not a single unit, held together with two screws. So cool, but so little information! I found it included in the '60 catalog section 16 pg 7, set AM20B (in the '57, AM20B has the A701???). I found teardown pics on papaws (bonneyman commented on that thread as well). Noteworthy; the illustration in the '60 shows the 4 tab selector of the A701, not the single tab selector on the A700.

References:

1957 Bonney Catalog : Bonney Forge : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

1957 Bonney Catalog - Contributed by The ToolArchives

archive.org

Bonney Quality Tools : Catalog 60 : Bonney Forge & Tool Works : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

132 p., illus., 27.0 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

Inside a ratchet: How they work

Inside a ratchet: How they work

papawswrench.com

My two roundheads:

VTG BONNEY A701 1/2" DRIVE RATCHET MADE IN USA RARE c | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VTG BONNEY A701 1/2" DRIVE RATCHET MADE IN USA RARE c at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Vintage Rare Old BONNEY A 700 Round Head 1/2" Ratchet Socket Wrench Tool USA H:O | eBay

Round head. Hollow handle. Stamped : BONNEY A 700 USA H:O. Operates correctly in both directions as it should. Nice user. Crisp instant user. This tool may have scratches, dents, rust, and years of toolbox scars, but is a decent old tool.

www.ebay.com

A700 guts pic credit to that other guy on the other site. Mine is not in my hands yet.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

How do you all feel about threads being revived? I am new here

Not a problem. In fact, it's usually preferable to starting to threads on the same topic. This is a great example. Good of you to ask.

My interest in Bonney is wartime and earlier, so I am no help, but there are a lot of later Bonney fans here. The OP has not been here since May, but others may reply. If not, note that we have a dedicated Bonney thread with many eager Bonney fans and aficionados. You might get more attention there. Easiest way to find it is simply click on the sticky at the top of this forum (Vintage Tools Discussion) titled READ B4 POSTING! Inside there is an A-Z index of Threads. Scroll down to By Brand and Bonney.

Also just bumped it for you. It is now at or near the top of Page 1.