Booster pump recommendations?

[67CarGuy]

Our new house is on town water, and we've got low water pressure. About 25-30 psi, per the plumber. The town isn't going to do anything more. We're at the top of a hill, with the town's tank just up the road. No pumping station, just gravity. I can only run one sprinkler at a time, otherwise there isn't enough pressure to get the things to go back and restart their cycle. So I'm looking for a recommendation for a booster pump, probably something that provides a 30-50 psi bump, and let's say 25-30 ft of head (pump will be in the basement, needs to push up to the second floor).

Our plumber has "instant" access to 2 options (aka, the supply house has them in stock), but I'm open to your knowledgeable suggestions:

1. Grundfos CMBE 1-44, at $2,432 + install (yikes!); adjustable pressure
2. AquaMotion Aqua-Max APB30, at $707 + install; 30 psi, not adjustable

Per the supply house, the AquaMotion has had more callbacks... but I figure I can likely have 3 installed before I reach just the purchase price of the Grundfos.
Any other recommendations?

 

[gizardlizard]

I work on Grundfos pumps at work and my well pump at home is grundfos. They are awesome. Pure and simple. The only issue I’ve ever had with them at work is having to replace the rotary seals now and then, and that’s due to bad water. At home, my Grundfos pump has never missed a beat in 18 years. Changing the seals on them is a breeze compared to most.

 

[67CarGuy]

Thanks giz, I appreciate the first-hand feedback. Any issues dealing the company directly, or are you always going through a supply house? I'm seeing some references to poor customer service and support...

 

[micromind]

If it were me, I'd use just about any straight centrifugal pump, 1/2HP will do. Then I'd install some sort of a pressure tank and a pressure switch, and a check valve somewhere between the pump suction and the source. The cut-in pressure would be higher than the highest pressure you now have, if it's lower, the pump will never kick on.

You'll need about 80 - 100' of head on the pump. 2.31' = 1PSI. The capacity of a centrifugal pump falls off quickly with increased pressure.

 

[gizardlizard]

Thanks giz, I appreciate the first-hand feedback. Any issues dealing the company directly, or are you always going through a supply house? I'm seeing some references to poor customer service and support...

Never had to deal with customer support. I simply go thru a local supplier with my part numbers when I need deals.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I assume the pressure has been tested at the water tap feeding your house at the street? There could be an issue with the piping from the meter to your house. About 40 years ago a newly expanded area in the next town over with a new water main immediately had low water pressure and was smelly. Utilities ended up finding a dead dog in the line that had gotten stuck there and perished during piping installation. They sanitized the extension after removing the poor dog, but did not exactly spread the news about the “obstruction”. I had an acquaintance working as a backhoe operator on the crew who told it.

 

[PCustoms]

I assume the pressure has been tested at the water tap feeding your house at the street? There could be an issue with the piping from the meter to your house.

Per the OP, he's at the top of the hill, near the tank. In a gravity system the houses nearest a ground level tank will have very little pressure. He already said town won't (really can't) do anything.

I know someone with a similar situation. Their pump (and pressure tank) is blue, so I'm assuming a Gould. Not much too them, I can't imagine spending $3k

 

[pcmeiners]

Grundfos CMBE 1-44, at $2,432 + install (yikes!); adjustable pressure

Grundfos may be very reliable, my experience was with a Grundfos pump which had an aluminum housing painted with epoxy, water got under the epoxy leaked until replaced. Poor engineering. Pump looks nice to work on but $2432. is a lot
Yes I know this pump is stainless. As mentioned a cheap stainless shallow well pump will boost to the pressure you ask as long as your supply pipe is capable of delivering volume (1"or more). Water pumps are noisy, even the Grunfos, so be aware. As to installation it requires a splice into the supply line, with a bypass valve setup, 2-3 hours, (2) 3 way valves

 

[NUTTSGT]

I might try a different approach. You say "town" so a municipal water supply. Does this town have a full time fire department ?

If so, stop by and talk to the chief. Tell him of your low water pressure issue and your concern with low water pressure for fire fighting. They should be able to come out to check water pressure at the closest hydrant.

All it is a few minutes of your time that won't cost you anything.

 

[PCustoms]

I might try a different approach. You say "town" so a municipal water supply. Does this town have a full time fire department ?

If so, stop by and talk to the chief. Tell him of your low water pressure issue and your concern with low water pressure for fire fighting. They should be able to come out to check water pressure at the closest hydrant.

All it is a few minutes of your time that won't cost you anything.

Curious, what is the fix for low pressure at the hydrant with no head pressure from the reservoir?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Curious, what is the fix for low pressure at the hydrant with no head pressure from the reservoir?

It would help figure if there is an issue between the last hydrant and the OPs meter/residence...


If the system is was looped it should gain pressure

 

[larry4406]

I don’t recall the details, but about 10 years ago I did a 9 unit subdivision that was at an elevation comparable to the water tower.

Water pressure was known to be poor in that area.

We had to install 2” water services to the homes.

In the basement we had a small pressure tank (7-10 gal?) with a centrifugal pump. Looked like one of the packaged units you would see on a shallow depth well setup.

Incoming water line went to this pump which then boosted the pressure in the house.

When the booster pump was not operable, we could barely get water at the 2nd floor fixtures.

 

[PCustoms]

It would help figure if there is an issue between the last hydrant and the OPs meter/residence...

Guess I'm not following...

Pretty common here in New England for basically ground level reservoir at the top of a "hill". Unless there is a pump, homes close to this just won't see much pressure.

If the system is was looped it should gain pressure

How? Any pressure gained by flowing 100' downhill will quickly be lost if that water tried to come 100' back up that hill

 

[dcg9381]

I work on Grundfos pumps at work and my well pump at home is grundfos. They are awesome. Pure and simple.

Top tier pump. We've got one up north that is 20+ years old. This is what I use with my rain water collection also. Built like tanks.

I will say that's a "fancy" Grundfos - constant pressure. Those I have not owned. I use a simple 1.5hp pump, 240V, use a stop-cycle valve and a pressure switch (old school)... That particular setup (Grundfos CMBE 1-44) has a stop cycle and other fancy do-dads. It's also 120V.

With ANY pump (especially in this price range) you'd be wise to add a "pump protector". If the city shuts down water for some reason for a time, you don't want to smoke an expensive pump.

 

[gizardlizard]

Two of the Grundfos pumps here at work. These are 11 KW units.

 

[dcg9381]

here at work. These are 11 KW units.

I was about to say "damn" - must be one hell of a house... What are they used for?

 

[kbuhagiar]

When we bought our current house in 2021 one of the first things we did was replace the booster pump. We are on city water and the existing system in place was a mess, butchered beyond repair by the cheapskeate previous owner. Our local ordinance (San Diego County CA) require fire suppresion systems (sprinklers) on all houses built after 2011 and part of that requirement is a booster pump. This is the Goulds system we installed:

https://www.pumpcatalog.com/goulds/aquavar-e-abii-booster-systems/2ab25hm04/?srsltid=AfmBOoryR-Fy2zvFaI45QgqKms7zReBLHlQxSeDRe9DOWvsjSl-RvPLM

Amazing water pressure at all times with all the bells and whistles. Not cheap but great performance and zero problems so far.

 

[carlaisle]

Two of the Grundfos pumps here at work. These are 11 KW units.

Seems a little undersized for a residence.

 

[gizardlizard]

lol.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Our new house is on town water, and we've got low water pressure. About 25-30 psi, per the plumber. The town isn't going to do anything more. We're at the top of a hill, with the town's tank just up the road. No pumping station, just gravity. I can only run one sprinkler at a time, otherwise there isn't enough pressure to get the things to go back and restart their cycle. So I'm looking for a recommendation for a booster pump, probably something that provides a 30-50 psi bump, and let's say 25-30 ft of head (pump will be in the basement, needs to push up to the second floor).

Our plumber has "instant" access to 2 options (aka, the supply house has them in stock), but I'm open to your knowledgeable suggestions:

1. Grundfos CMBE 1-44, at $2,432 + install (yikes!); adjustable pressure
2. AquaMotion Aqua-Max APB30, at $707 + install; 30 psi, not adjustable

Per the supply house, the AquaMotion has had more callbacks... but I figure I can likely have 3 installed before I reach just the purchase price of the Grundfos.
Any other recommendations?

If those are your only options, I would go with the Grundfos. Buy once, cry once.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Guess I'm not following...

Pretty common here in New England for basically ground level reservoir at the top of a "hill". Unless there is a pump, homes close to this just won't see much pressure.



How? Any pressure gained by flowing 100' downhill will quickly be lost if that water tried to come 100' back up that hill

Plumber says 25-30 psi at the house. If the water line is tested and shows 45-50 psi. This tells me there is a leak or obstruction somewhere in the line coming in at the OP's house.

Basically, it's nothing more than verifying the municipal water pressure coming into the residence doesn't have a loss somewhere.


Nothing can be verified online as the OP (I'd bet money on) can't get the numbers for the tank level or actual pressure numbers. The water tank in question may only be kept at a minimal level, just enough to get by rather than to have it kept "full."


If the local FD comes out to test the system pressure at the hydrant, they may be able to have local water "company" keep the water tank level at a higher level due to the necessity of fire prevention. The lower tank level means less water for fire fighting or other emergencies. It's basically a way to skirt the water company and go over their head.

 

[jblnut]

If those are your only options, I would go with the Grundfos. Buy once, cry once.

^ This right there. ^

I’ve had other pumps on the farm and the Grundfos ones last the longest between failures. They’re not inexpensive but nothing built well in these days.

 

[micromind]

Curious, what is the fix for low pressure at the hydrant with no head pressure from the reservoir?

The fire department would force the city to spend several million dollars (that they don't have) to install a booster pump station, complete with backup generator.

2000 GPM @ 100PSI.

Then property taxes would more than double and everyone would whine and snivel but you know.....safety.......

 

[dcg9381]

Plumber says 25-30 psi at the house. If the water line is tested and shows 45-50 psi. This tells me there is a leak or obstruction somewhere in the line coming in at the OP's house.

Basically, it's nothing more than verifying the municipal water pressure coming into the residence doesn't have a loss somewhere.

Depends on where the muni connnection is. OP mentioned he's at the top of a hill. If the connection is at the bottom of the hill, we can calculate pressure loss, especially if we know the water main size to the residence.

I assume the muni connection doesn't have a pressure adjustment? Many places have "regulators" in front of the water main.

 

[PCustoms]

I assume the muni connection doesn't have a pressure adjustment? Many places have "regulators" in front of the water main.

It probably does, but say it's set to 60psi.

If the head pressure is only 35psi the regulator really isn't ever doing anything.

It's weird to me how many people see this as an odd situation. I suppose now a days the reservoir would have some giant pump to pressurize everything right off the tank, but back in the day it was all gravity.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Per the supply house, the AquaMotion has had more callbacks... but I figure I can likely have 3 installed before I reach just the purchase price of the Grundfos.

Think about this for a minute...are you really willing to have as many as three water service interruption episodes, possibly for days at a time?
I'd rather not cheap out when it comes to a crucial service delivery like water supply.

 

[dcg9381]

Think about this for a minute...are you really willing to have as many as three water service interruption episodes, possibly for days at a time?
I'd rather not cheap out when it comes to a crucial service delivery like water supply.

I'd ask 'em to put a by-pass in, just for this case.

 

[nadogail]

I like Grundfos Pumps. At a previous employer we had good service from Little Giant Pumps with their magnetic drive on caustic chemicals. There were no wetted seals.

 

[67CarGuy]

Thanks for all of the feedback and discussion folks, greatly appreciated. I've never had to deal with this issue before, so the knowledge sharing is great! Some responses...

@NUTTSGT that's a great idea. I'll see if I can stop by sometime this week and talk with the FD, see if there's any recourse. There is 1 hydrant between our driveway and the reservoir, and it's only about 300 ft from where our connection to the main is. And the hydrant is probably 500-1000 ft from the reservoir, without much elevation change.

@PCustoms I can't quite imagine spending that much either, but here we are. I'd really rather not spend that much, but like @kbuhagiar already said, buy once cry once. That $2400 price appears to be wholesale, too - when I check Ferguson online w/no account I'm seeing $3k+.

@kbuhagiar and @dcg9381 not to worry, there's already a bypass plumbed in for a (possible) future inline filter setup. Shutoff valves are already in place. As for a pressure adjustment on the muni connection, to my knowledge there isn't one. We're the only house on our block with town water, as the rest of the houses were pre-existing and on wells when the line was put in.

@kbuhagiar how loud would you say your setup is? I can barely hear my air handler when it is running, I can't hear my heat pump water heater at all (unless I'm in the basement where it's located), and I'm looking to keep the noise down. The CMBE 1-44 lists 55 dB or lower, which I think I can deal with.

Next question: storage tank or no? Our plumber didn't suggest one, but is there a strong argument to install one? I suppose knowing flow rates and pressures would help determine that... And if one is recommended, what size? 7-10 gallons like @larry4406 mentioned, or something larger?

 

[kbuhagiar]

@kbuhagiar how loud would you say your setup is? I can barely hear my air handler when it is running, I can't hear my heat pump water heater at all (unless I'm in the basement where it's located), and I'm looking to keep the noise down. The CMBE 1-44 lists 55 dB or lower, which I think I can deal with.

Next question: storage tank or no? Our plumber didn't suggest one, but is there a strong argument to install one? I suppose knowing flow rates and pressures would help determine that... And if one is recommended, what size? 7-10 gallons like @larry4406 mentioned, or something larger?

I can't speak to specific decibel levels, but it doesn't seem very loud at all, and my hearing is quite good and very sensitive. Then again the pump in located in a remote equipment shed away from the house, so technically for me it's dead silent.

Regarding the storage tank, it depends on what type of pump you get. Our pump is what's known as a 'dynamic' pump (variable speed depending on demand) so all that is required is a small three-gallon 'pony' tank to buffer on startup and shutdown. 'Static' pumps (i.e. all on or all off) need larger 'bladder' tanks to maintain even water pressure when the pump isn't running.

IMHO dynamic pumps are the greatest innovation in pump technology since electricity. They save power, are quieter, last longer and are smoother running. Downside is they are pricey, as they require a controller unit to modulate the pump.

 

[micromind]

If you don't use a pressure tank or if it's a small one, the pump will short-cycle and it won't last very long.

Plus, there'll be pressure surges at the faucets and worse, the shower.

 

[dcg9381]

Next question: storage tank or no? Our plumber didn't suggest one, but is there a strong argument to install one? I suppose knowing flow rates and pressures would help determine that... And if one is recommended, what size? 7-10 gallons like @larry4406 mentioned, or something larger?

I was gonna ask how do these "booster" pumps work. You an only create so much vacuum, so I wasn't sure if they just go "in-line". I would assume not.

I have 5 x 5000 gallon storage tanks (rainwater). You're in Boston, so you're going to have to deal with freeze problems, that's my first concern. If you do install one, the typical "plastic" tanks expand and contract if the water level is not constant. The movement at the outlet is substantial. I'd highly recommend a double joint system because things move around... And use PEX.

If you don't use a pressure tank or if it's a small one, the pump will short-cycle and it won't last very long.

It looks like the Grundfos CMBE 1-44 has a pressure tank of some sort. You CAN use small pressure tanks with a stop-cycle valve. It looks like this pump has both.

I don't understand the design of the AquaMotion Aqua-Max APB30.

I use a "simple" grundfos, pressure tank, stop cycle, and a pump protector. Of all that ****, the pump protector is most important.

 

[firebirdparts]

You have to do a pressure tank for controllability. Not really optional.

 

[67CarGuy]

If you don't use a pressure tank or if it's a small one, the pump will short-cycle and it won't last very long.

Plus, there'll be pressure surges at the faucets and worse, the shower.

Good to know, thank you. I'm now wondering why my plumber didn't suggest one from the start...

I have 5 x 5000 gallon storage tanks (rainwater). You're in Boston, so you're going to have to deal with freeze problems, that's my first concern. If you do install one, the typical "plastic" tanks expand and contract if the water level is not constant. The movement at the outlet is substantial. I'd highly recommend a double joint system because things move around... And use PEX.


It looks like the Grundfos CMBE 1-44 has a pressure tank of some sort. You CAN use small pressure tanks with a stop-cycle valve. It looks like this pump has both.

I don't understand the design of the AquaMotion Aqua-Max APB30.

I use a "simple" grundfos, pressure tank, stop cycle, and a pump protector. Of all that ****, the pump protector is most important.

The tank will be in the insulated / semi-conditioned basement, so I'm not worried about freezing. All of the piping is already PEX, so at least that's covered. Tell me more about the double joint system, though.

Yes, the 1-44 does have a small pressure tank, but from what I'm understanding from everyone that tank isn't large enough. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

You have to do a pressure tank for controllability. Not really optional.

You and @micromind aren't in cahoots on this, are you? Secret pressure tank salespeople, sent to increase my plumbing costs?

 

[Schurkey]

Yes, start with the Fire Department. Could be, they'll force the City to take action.

Given the problems with firefighting in California, where the reservoir was allowed to be empty for months/years waiting on "repairs"; I would be writing a letter to the editor of the local paper, and contacting the news/consumer interest personnel at the radio/tv stations.

You explain that there's no water pressure, let the media publicity pressure the dirtbags in Government who won't fix the problem. Unless there's a restriction on your property, this is not YOUR problem, this is THEIR problem. They're failing to supply adequate water pressure.

 

[dcg9381]

Yes, the 1-44 does have a small pressure tank, but from what I'm understanding from everyone that tank isn't large enough. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

Pumps with "stop cycle valves" - which LOOKS to be included in that first pump can get by with very small pressure tanks.
I have the same setup, but built in pieces. It works great. No harm in a larger pressure tank, but you may want to use only one.

How Stop Cycle valves work is a mystery to me, but they do work.

 

[pcmeiners]

Yes, the 1-44 does have a small pressure tank, but from what I'm understanding from everyone that tank isn't large enough. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

The issue with large pressure tanks is they do not actually store a great deal of water with low water pressure. I have a well with the pressure switch set to a cutoff of 70psi, when filled to the cut off pressure only about 1/3 of the large bladder tank is water (160 gallon tank), not much of a reserve. It will provide enough reserve for a bath/shower and for cooking for a single person before cycling the pump, it also maintains a higher pressure and for longer before pump cycling...basically larger pressure tanks do not perform miracles.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Just saw this one on my LinkedIn feed. Go big or Go home.

 

[67CarGuy]

I don't think Accounting, let alone Procurement, is going to allow that purchase...

 

[pcmeiners]

"Grundfos CMBE 1-44, at $2,432 + install (yikes!); adjustable pressure"

A couple listed on FB in your region, one new and one used, approx. half price