Bosch Wireless

[Ryan]

So I guess this is a pretty big deal. Bosch is basically introducing the first inductive battery with wireless charging platform. The system is called "wireless" essentially because you don't have to plug the battery into anything - you just set it o...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.

 

[ricepudding]

I can see the bonus to wireless charging, but because there is no physical contact, the charge rate must be lower. Right?

 

[LB-1911]

Additional information @

Changing batteries is now a thing of the past
http://www.bosch-professional.com/static/specials/wireless-charging/gb/en/wireless-charging.html

 

[Fcvapor05]

Is putting the battery on the charger really that big of a deal?

 

[BirdMobile]

Is putting the battery on the charger really that big of a deal?

I guess someone thought so... or someone thought that someone thought so!

 

[bcradio]

Is putting the battery on the charger really that big of a deal?

No, but some people have to have a conversation piece I guess

 

[GSteg]

I can see the bonus to wireless charging, but because there is no physical contact, the charge rate must be lower. Right?

Charge rate can be the same if not higher, but it's likely to be less efficient than direct contact.

 

[Fcvapor05]

Charge rate is mostly dictated by the battery design, not by the charging circuitry. So if they use the same cells as the old batteries, they will charge at about the same rate. The difference is efficiency. The inductive system isn't all that efficient, so the charger will draw more current from the wall and will generate more heat for the same input to the battery.

 

[Krash Kadillak]

At least for now, I don't see the advantage....
- Batteries are way bigger than what I'm using now (18V Ryobi)
- Charge rate must be slower than a direct connection to the charger.
- Not that big of a deal for me to unplug the battery into the charger. I've got 4 batteries and 2 chargers.

Wait for the second or third generation.

 

[marty_p]

At least for now, I don't see the advantage...

Wait for the second or third generation.

...and I'll wait for the bugs to be worked out and for the price to fall!

 

[Ign]

9/12/14

http://toolguyd.com/bosch-wireless-battery-charging-system/

 

[Fcvapor05]

At least for now, I don't see the advantage....
- Batteries are way bigger than what I've using now (18V Ryobi)
- Charge rate must be slower than a direct connection to the charger.
- Not that big of a deal for me to unplug the battery into the charger. I've got 4 batteries and 2 chargers.

Wait for the second or third generation.

Batteries are the same size as normal Bosch 18V batteries, or very close to it. Charge rate is probably the same. I don't know for sure, but there's no reason it can't be equally fast.

In any event, I agree with you. Unnecessary expense.

 

[gungatim]

inductive coupling is nothing new, we've been using it for 15 yrs. and actually marketed a system that would charge your cordless tools in your work truck but nobody bought it...I designed a mat you park your dirbikes and quads over and it keeps your battery charged in the off season. it's about time some more usable products are coming to market...when I was researching I found some MIT students that flew a full size cessna with electric motors using inductive coupling! Thank you Tesla! (The guy not the stupid car company)

 

[Lbcwanabe]

I think if I bought this my wife would get mad at me for keeping my drill on the bookshelf

 

[neophyte]

With the inductive charging system, a user doesn't need to take the battery out of the tool to charge it. In an industrial setting this likely saves time since the user only has to put the tool down on the charger between running fasteners to keep the tool charged. With a traditional battery charging system, the user would wait for the battery to run down, then have to take it out, and then put a new one in, and then put the down charged battery in the charger, or leave it for someone else to put in the charger. For production assembly, the new system may save time and prevent inconsistencies and hiccups in assembly line manufacturing.

 

[vartz04]

Why would you use cordless tools on an assembly line?

 

[logikal]

Why would you use cordless tools on an assembly line?

Are you kidding?

 

[G_P]

This seems like it would be useful in a production setting where you work at one bench all day long and can keep the tool sitting on the charge pad within arms reach. But for average use it seems to just add more parts that can fail and needless expense. Instead of constantly having to go back and put the tool on the charger its easier just to have a spare battery charged up and ready to swap out when the first one gets low.

Also, how does the charger know when the battery is full? Is there some kind of feedback signal to shut off the charger?

 

[rlitman]

This seems like it would be useful in a production setting where you work at one bench all day long and can keep the tool sitting on the charge pad within arms reach. But for average use it seems to just add more parts that can fail and needless expense. Instead of constantly having to go back and put the tool on the charger its easier just to have a spare battery charged up and ready to swap out when the first one gets low.

Also, how does the charger know when the battery is full? Is there some kind of feedback signal to shut off the charger?

Sitting at a bench, I'm still thinking a corded tool can make more sense.
On a moving production line, or setup where a cord may get in the way, perhaps this is better.

All lithium charging systems have electronics in the battery to control the charging process. The "charger" in this case only provides power to a charger that lives inside the battery pack.

 

[Fcvapor05]

that exactly is one of the primary problems I see with this charger. Extended periods at full charge are bad for Lithium Polymer and Lithium Ion batteries. If they are left on a charger indefinitely, their life is actually shortened. So the LAST thing you want is to use a tool for 10 seconds and then immediately charge the battery to full, and you definitely don't want to do that 300 times a day for 3 shifts. Unless you like killing batteries and buying new ones.

 

[rice rocket]

that exactly is one of the primary problems I see with this charger. Extended periods at full charge are bad for Lithium Polymer and Lithium Ion batteries. If they are left on a charger indefinitely, their life is actually shortened. So the LAST thing you want is to use a tool for 10 seconds and then immediately charge the battery to full, and you definitely don't want to do that 300 times a day for 3 shifts. Unless you like killing batteries and buying new ones.

Yeah except all lithium chargers are actively managed, both for current and voltage, because overcharged lithium batteries are explosive.

You ever own a laptop? Notice that it the system won't charge from 100% to ~97% unless you physically unplug and plug it again? That logic is standard in all lithium chargers (and why you shouldn't use any other charger w/ lithium batteries).


And charging batteries repeatedly isn't what kills them, it's charging or discharging them at high current.

 

[PureLeaf]

I wouldn't buy this. Why would I want my battery to stay on my tool while charging? If my battery runs out, I want to swap out the depleted battery, put on a fully charged one and keep working. Then swap again when that one depletes for the one that was charging in the meantime.

In the video, I saw no view of the bottom of the battery where the inductive charger is located. I'd like to know how thats going to hold up against being set down time after time on hard surfaces, is it going to be dislodged or otherwise damaged from physical 'shock'? What happens when the bottom of the tool becomes dirty or scrapped up over time from dirty worksites. Will it still correctly mount and charge? Or will you have to wipe the bottom off every time? That seems meaningful as this would be the surface in which the tool rests when not in use.

Wireless charging may be the future for certain applications like iPhones with integrated batteries, but for cordless power tools where you need to continue working without downtime or charging wires, the future is already here, its called a second battery.

 

[Lippyp]

I was reading a review of a new car and I can't for the life of me remember what it was but thats coming with an inductive charging pad built into the dash so you can just chuck your phone on it.

 

[MikeF2316]

They're developing this technology for charging electric cars. They want the user to be able to have the same experience he has with gasoline powered cars - just park the car in the garage and walk away. No hassle with plugging something in, no forgetting too.

 

[Fcvapor05]

Yeah except all lithium chargers are actively managed, both for current and voltage, because overcharged lithium batteries are explosive.

You ever own a laptop? Notice that it the system won't charge from 100% to ~97% unless you physically unplug and plug it again? That logic is standard in all lithium chargers (and why you shouldn't use any other charger w/ lithium batteries).


And charging batteries repeatedly isn't what kills them, it's charging or discharging them at high current.

Right. So would it be a good idea to continually unplug your laptop, wait for it to drop to 97%, then plug it back in and charge it to 100%?

No, it would not. Go research battery lifetime vs. time spend at full energy.

 

[Fcvapor05]

They're developing this technology for charging electric cars. They want the user to be able to have the same experience he has with gasoline powered cars - just park the car in the garage and walk away. No hassle with plugging something in, no forgetting too.

This at least is one application where it makes a ton of sense.

 

[G_P]

Putting this technology into electric cars would be the best use of it. You can charge wirelessly at home, and at work they could install inductive coils in a few parking spots so your car is charging while you work.

Same could be done at stores. Put a coil in a parking spot and put a pay as you go meter next to it. Charge while you shop.

 

[Vvmvbb]

Can be much more reliable in harsh environments such as tooth brush recharging. Can get perfect seals.
Also does not wear so there is no limit to the number of insertions like traditional connectors.
And can provide a safety barrier (isolation) to high potentials.

Lot of good things about these systems. Not sure a drill is going to gain much benefit since as was said you really want two battery packs.

 

[Lippyp]

I remembered, its the new Jeep Cherokee that has it built into the dash.

 

[diggerrick]

If my battery runs out, I want to swap out the depleted battery, put on a fully charged one and keep working. Then swap again when that one depletes for the one that was charging in the meantime.

Wireless charging may be the future for certain applications like iPhones with integrated batteries, but for cordless power tools where you need to continue working without downtime or charging wires, the future is already here, its called a second battery.[/QUOTE

Me, too. It would have taken a lot longer to build my pool deck if I wasn't able to swap batteries out.

 

[Ign]

Why would you use cordless tools on an assembly line?

Cordless tools are widely used in many production and production line environments.

I wouldn't buy this. Why would I want my battery to stay on my tool while charging? If my battery runs out, I want to swap out the depleted battery, put on a fully charged one and keep working. Then swap again when that one depletes for the one that was charging in the meantime.

In the video, I saw no view of the bottom of the battery where the inductive charger is located. I'd like to know how thats going to hold up against being set down time after time on hard surfaces, is it going to be dislodged or otherwise damaged from physical 'shock'? What happens when the bottom of the tool becomes dirty or scrapped up over time from dirty worksites. Will it still correctly mount and charge? Or will you have to wipe the bottom off every time? That seems meaningful as this would be the surface in which the tool rests when not in use.

And with this system you can still swap out your battery just the same, you just won't slide the dead battery onto a charger but rather set it on the charger. A small difference to be sure but I predict eventually this will be ALL chargers.

You mean there was a time when you couldn't just tell your phone to call someone? What's so hard about finding the contact and pressing "dial?"

You mean you used to have to use a match to light a burner on your gas range? What's so hard about striking a match??

You used to have to have a key to unlock your car? What's so hard about putting the key in the slot and turning??

To be sure this will not change the world, but it will become an industry-wide commonplace convenience and a remember when? conversation.

 

[purplezr2]

Why would you use cordless tools on an assembly line?

They use them cause they are easy to use and more lighter then air tools. Also it allows them to more work stations up with out having to add balancers and air drops.

 

[Ign]

They use them cause they are easy to use and more lighter then air tools. Also it allows them to more work stations up with out having to add balancers and air drops.

Absolutely. Easy to reconfigure too. Change the floor layout? Move all your stations or benches? Just carry the tools with the tables, no hardlines or drops or conduit in pre-determined lines/layout. No noise of air tools, and I have to wonder probably cheaper to get a quality cordless screwdriver or drill with clutch presets than a comparable air tool intended for production use. Possibly better feel/more feedback from cordless too vs pneumatic?

 

[andys]

Every idea needs to be proven in the real world. They will analyze failed warranty returns and hear from customers and learn a wealth of information. This may not sound like a huge boon to us in our lives but to the engineers at Bosch this is a good way to find out how the idea works in harsh and varied environments.

 

[bsaint]

Is putting the battery on the charger really that big of a deal?

Well the Qi charger is very popular for cell phones.

 

[bob_s2]

For a hand held drill, I don't see the benefit of 'cordless charging' where you have to put it in a cradle. How would this be any different than having a contact point on each side of the battery, and having it make contact when slid into the cradle? I just don't see the benefit for a hand held drill. Seems to me they are trying to solve a problem there that doesn't really exist - for hand drills at least. Now there are items do come to mind that are not able to be plugged in easily, such as a pace maker. Makes sense to develop the technology with a drill first. However medical isn't the end goal. I agree electric cars are a good application for it. Maybe items near water where you need to charge it but want something permanently sealed? cell phones come to mind - make them totally waterproof and wirelessly charge.
What are other applications that could benefit from wireless charging?
--Bob

 

[Fcvapor05]

Well the Qi charger is very popular for cell phones.

Where it makes even less sense... Just because a product is popular doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Lbcwanabe]

Does it have an on off switch?

 

[DanInVA]

I think it is an interesting concept. Don't really see it as essential given the way these tools are likely to be used, but think about this: battery packs are constantly getting bigger and higher capacity, which is cool, but these huge powerful batteries can be pretty pricey, and somewhat bulky and heavy. If you were working in an environment where you will almost always be within arms reach of a charger, though, that huge battery would be kind of redundant. Would you accept a 1.0 ah battery for a cordless impact gun if it were a third of the cost of a 4.0, 1/2 a pound lighter, and is able to run nearly indefinitely thanks to inductive charging? That might make it a much more appealing concept. What about using some form of capacitor in this role, and not use a lithium battery at all? Not a be all end all solution, but for a user who is going to be working in a set location, maybe an interesting concept.

 

[Ryan]

Just wait and see boys... I'm gonna bump this thread in three or four years with a smile on my face...