Boston HVAC replacement

[My Old Tools]

My daughter just told me the AC in her condo went out. She's in Boston south end. Supposedly the compressor is shot. Got an estimate of $26k. That includes a crane lift and street blocking. The Condo is ground floor and 800sf. I guess the unit is rooftop. Even with a crane that sounds steep to me. Anybody have a reputable contractor they can recommend. I already told her to get a minimum of 3 quotes and gave her the option of going to a mini-split. Also told her get some more repair people to check it out in case it's a capacitor issue.

 

[danski0224]

The only way to know is to get a few estimates and the scope of work.

Crane lift and required permits could easily be several thousand dollars of that estimate.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Crane lift and required permits could easily be several thousand dollars of that estimate."

Not to mention, the building depart and the police might demand their presents presence.

Now with an estimate of 26k, very likely it will be more once the contractor thinks your daughter is hooked. Me, Iwould recovery the old unit's refrigerant, cut up the old unit in small pieces, carefully cut up/ de-brase the new units guts so it can be pieced together on the roof, the new units enclose might be able to be carried up a stairs or carefully cut into repairable pieces, carried to roof and reassembled.
How much could that be compared to a crane lift? A day to braze/assemble pieces together, Next day couple hour for electric, check for leaks, purge, vacuum, gas fill. Crane alone got to be roughly $7000 .

Any replacement unit better be top end (most reliable), do not let the contractor pick it

 

[My Old Tools]

Crane is about $2700. They bid a 3 ton high end Trane for less than 800sf ground floor 1 bedroom.

 

[danski0224]

Height to roof?

Age of existing system?

 

[pcmeiners]

"Crane is about $2700."

Cheap if that is the final price, I am use to NYC prices.

 

[Jackfre]

I would try Total Temp in Wakefield. John is a fine man and an excellent contractor. A 3 ton unit is ridiculous for this install. Two guys could carry an 18k minisplit condensing unit up the stairwell.

 

[danski0224]

Minisplit only works if the outdoor section can be mounted to the wall within reach of a new lineset and power. That probably needs approval from the HOA at a minimum.

Existing split lineset will not be suitable for re-use with a minisplit.

And there may be issues with reusing the existing lineset, anyway.

 

[American Locomotive]

I would try Total Temp in Wakefield. John is a fine man and an excellent contractor. A 3 ton unit is ridiculous for this install. Two guys could carry an 18k minisplit condensing unit up the stairwell.

Even 18k is big for 800 sf in New England.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Crane is about $2700. They bid a 3 ton high end Trane for less than 800sf ground floor 1 bedroom."

Did not read the entire last post, Jackfre is right, 3 ton is overboard. My garage (1100 squft ) is more than fine with a 1 ton Fujitsu split. The outside unit weights roughly 85lbs, indoor 30lbs. She might as well go with a minisplit

 

[fitter30]

Whenever dealing with a long refrigerate lines the length of lines especially vertical have to meet the condenser manufacturer specs. Pipe size, length, if their should be a liquid line solenoid and drier. Line length big consideration is oil capacity of the compressor because added oil might have to be added over a certain length. Another question is there a roof hatch and what size and size of the unit. Unit might fit through it.

 

[My Old Tools]

They are getting some more bids. Told them to look at the Daikin Fit units which are like a mini-split with an air handler. Probably stuck with the crane.

 

[American Locomotive]

I don't see why they would be stuck with the crane. Two guys could easilly pull a 9-12k btu minisplit condenser up the side of a building with some ropes.

 

[danski0224]

Not knowing how tall the building is, ropes may not be an option (OP has not provided info).

Then there is the risk of damage to the building while lifting the item.

Leaning over the edge without being tied off, as there probably aren't any tie off points on the roof. You just can't stand back and pull it up and let the rope drag on the coping or parapet wall (and then the item drags along the wall on the way up)... you have to get up close and lean over to pull it over the top at some point.

Possible injury to the people lifting the item.

Injury to people and/or property damage below if something lets loose, and people near jobsites do not seem to care about safety stuff. And that's if the cops don't shut that little operation down first.

I can think of a whole bunch of reasons to not use ropes. I haven't done that mickey mouse **** on occupied buildings for years. At a previous employer, there WAS money in the jobs for crane quick picks, but the superintendent sent out ropes instead, so he could put the crane pick money in his pocket for the boat payment. Eff that noise.

 

[danski0224]

Whenever dealing with a long refrigerate lines the length of lines especially vertical have to meet the condenser manufacturer specs.

This is likely a problem that has to be dealt with on this job.

 

[Bert_]

I don't see why they would be stuck with the crane. Two guys could easilly pull a 9-12k btu minisplit condenser up the side of a building with some ropes.

I did exactly that earlier this spring with a 15,000btu condenser. I threw together a wood frame with a pulley that hung over the edge of the roof. Couple straps around the unit, some rope and up it went.

 

[My Old Tools]

Daughter received 2 new quotes, one for a Trane XR13 2 ton and a new 60k BTU gas furnace. The other for a 2 ton Daikin Fit and new 60k BTU gas furnace. Both are under $14k and about $1200 apart. The Daikin comes in lower overall cost with the government heat pump credit.

 

[pcmeiners]

"The Condo is ground floor and 800sf."

Have a Fujitsu 29 SEER/13.8 HSPF extra low temp 12000 BTU heat pump heating/cooling my 1080 sft garage, it went down to 7 degrees, no problem.

60k BTU gas heater..... is she cooking a roast beef sitting difrectly on her kitchen table?. I heated my entire 3 story 1800 sf previous house on 70k BTUs in NYC.

When you find out what drugs these guys are on, I want some,

 

[Bert_]

Normally with a space this size even the smallest traditional equipment is to big, 1.5T ac and 40,000 furnace. It's really surprising to see the sizes being quoted.

My 1700sqft 100 yo house in Iowa can be heated with 60,000 btu. 2T will cool it also

 

[jhelrey]

Between the two, get the Trane!

 

[danski0224]

Trane still has derailments...

 

[American Locomotive]

Can you provide some details of the condo? How tall is the building? Age of the building? Windows? 2 Ton AC and 60k furnace sounds way oversized for 800sf.

I live in a 250 year old 1700 sq-ft farm house in RI with the insulation varying from "Terrible" to "None" depending on what room you're in. It's heated with an 80k furnace, and typically 2 tons worth of window air conditioners will keep the whole house cool.

My buddy has 3x 6,000 BTU Mitusbishi minisplits, and they heated his ~1000 sq-ft single-wide just fine. He lives about 45 minutes outside Boston. In the summer the mini splits basically idle and hardly work at all to keep the place cool.

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[My Old Tools]

Between the two, get the Trane!

Actually, the inverter driven fully variable speed Daikin is probably better for this job. The conventional Trane likely won't run long enough to control humidity and Boston has plenty. You also get the advantage of heat pump heat instead of burning gas all winter. We had 3 Trane XR19 units at the last house. I got really efficient at changing capacitors.

 

[Jackfre]

I wouldn’t do either of these. A 60kbtu gas furnace will do nothing but ride the hi-limit in 800 sq ft. I have a few tens of thousand Rinnai EX22’s (8200-21500btu) heating that space across New England. Put in a Fujitsu or Mitsu deep heat model. If you have to have gas, put in the Rinnai after the mini-split hasn’t done the job. You won’t need it.

 

[PoorUB]

"The Condo is ground floor and 800sf."

Have a Fujitsu 29 SEER/13.8 HSPF extra low temp 12000 BTU heat pump heating/cooling my 1080 sft garage, it went down to 7 degrees, no problem.

60k BTU gas heater..... is she cooking a roast beef sitting difrectly on her kitchen table?. I heated my entire 3 story 1800 sf previous house on 70k BTUs in NYC.

When you find out what drugs these guys are on, I want some,

Normally with a space this size even the smallest traditional equipment is to big, 1.5T ac and 40,000 furnace. It's really surprising to see the sizes being quoted.

My 1700sqft 100 yo house in Iowa can be heated with 60,000 btu. 2T will cool it also

I have a modulating furnace. I have forced it to run as a two stage. 1st stage is 24,000 BTU and it will heat my 930 sqft, 1950 rambler with crappy insulation down to -30F on first stage, then it will not keep up. so about 95% of the heating season the 24,000 BTU heats just fine. Also I cool it with 18,000 BTU just fine.

800 sqft condo? 45,000 BTU 2 stage furnace, (That will never run on second stage!) and a 1-1/2 ton AC is too much!

 

[PoorUB]

I don't see why they would be stuck with the crane. Two guys could easilly pull a 9-12k btu minisplit condenser up the side of a building with some ropes.

I did exactly that earlier this spring with a 15,000btu condenser. I threw together a wood frame with a pulley that hung over the edge of the roof. Couple straps around the unit, some rope and up it went.

Some shops will not risk the Workman's Comp claim, or the OSHA violation and I respect that!

 

[My Old Tools]

I have a modulating furnace. I have forced it to run as a two stage. 1st stage is 24,000 BTU and it will heat my 930 sqft, 1950 rambler with crappy insulation down to -30F on first stage, then it will not keep up. so about 95% of the heating season the 24,000 BTU heats just fine. Also I cool it with 18,000 BTU just fine.

800 sqft condo? 45,000 BTU 2 stage furnace, (That will never run on second stage!) and a 1-1/2 ton AC is too much!

I agree. It has to be a split system with ground floor condo and rooftop compressor (a few floors up). I told them to ask about 1.5 ton heat pump unit and smaller furnace. 1.5 tons is the smallest Daikin FIT.