Bought a broken compressor. Looking for advice

[Davefr]

In the end, if all the OP wants is a low end/DIY compressor with a cheap HF pump then maybe he should scrap the entire idea.

Put what he has on CL and it might bring $500. (nice ROI) Then go out and buy the best new compressor he can. (ex: 30 gallon, 2HP)

 

[katit]

In the end, if all the OP wants is a low end/DIY compressor with a cheap HF pump then maybe he should scrap the entire idea.

Put what he has on CL and it might bring $500. (nice ROI) Then go out and buy the best new compressor he can. (ex: 30 gallon, 2HP)

HA! I have one like this already. Husky Pro. But I need 15+ CFM

 

[Davefr]

HA! I have one like this already. Husky Pro. But I need 15+ CFM

The only way you'll get 15 CFM continuous from that HF pump is if you run it at the max. rated RPM and pray that HF specs aren't exaggerated.

Maybe you could hook your Husky compressor in parallel with that 80 gallon tank and it will give you that CFM for a long duration with that combined tank capacity. (but not 100% continuous.) Cost would be negligible and you could get a few "benjamins" by parting out the Baldor motor.

What tools do you need to supply 15 CFM to? Are they high or low duty cycle? Have you considered using Lithium or Electric for those that need high CFM at high duty cycles? (High CFM at low duty cycle is generally not a problem).

The only air tool I have that needs 15CFM at high duty cycle is my 5" Sioux DA sander and it runs my 5 HP compressor continuously. I'd much rather sand with electric to avoid the noise and stiff air hose.

 

[katit]

Current 5cfm compressor can’t catch up when I use cutoff tool or disk sander. Those are little tools that I prefer to have as air tools. Can’t really use big electric counterparts. I have air outlets in garage and compressor in a basement so noise not a problem for me.

Paint gun also needs pauses for compressor to catch up. And I always wanted to be able to sandblast. That’s why I wanted bigger compressor. Current 5cfm pum not good enough and I don’t have space for 2 tanks. I can sell my current compressor as well

I sent multiple emails to reputable companies and distributors and noone called me back. I guess they also don’t need my business

 

[Citation]

The only way you'll get 15 CFM continuous from that HF pump is if you run it at the max. rated RPM and pray that HF specs aren't exaggerated.

Maybe you could hook your Husky compressor in parallel with that 80 gallon tank and it will give you that CFM for a long duration with that combined tank capacity. (but not 100% continuous.) Cost would be negligible and you could get a few "benjamins" by parting out the Baldor motor.

What tools do you need to supply 15 CFM to? Are they high or low duty cycle? Have you considered using Lithium or Electric for those that need high CFM at high duty cycles? (High CFM at low duty cycle is generally not a problem).

The only air tool I have that needs 15CFM at high duty cycle is my 5" Sioux DA sander and it runs my 5 HP compressor continuously. I'd much rather sand with electric to avoid the noise and stiff air hose.

Do you actually have any evidence of that? Sorry, we confirmed about 13.5 out of the same pump when running with a 4hp motor. The 3hp model claims 10 cfm which is exactly what we see with it (driven by the same type 4hp motor). Evidence suggests the numbers aren't inflated.

 

[Davefr]

Current 5cfm compressor can’t catch up when I use cutoff tool or disk sander. Those are little tools that I prefer to have as air tools. Can’t really use big electric counterparts. I have air outlets in garage and compressor in a basement so noise not a problem for me.

Paint gun also needs pauses for compressor to catch up. And I always wanted to be able to sandblast. That’s why I wanted bigger compressor. Current 5cfm pum not good enough and I don’t have space for 2 tanks. I can sell my current compressor as well

I sent multiple emails to reputable companies and distributors and noone called me back. I guess they also don’t need my business

Sandblasting and air sanding are high CFM/High duty cycle tasks and dictate a large compressor. Sounds like you better continue shopping for a pump.

Have you tried calling Quincy?

 

[katit]

Have you tried calling Quincy?

I tried via website and they point to local distributors. And I didn't get anybody contacting me back. I guess I should call.

I always think about another experience from my life. I work in IT and computer is my main tool. So, I got best Lenovo at a time with 24hr same day service. Guess what? In 2 years it broke and it was on Friday night.
At that time I was working without weekends and needed computer. But 24hr service is business days. So, technician came in on Tue of next week(can't do Monday) and they had to _order_ part which would take a week. I called and argued and they overnighted this part so I had computer running exactly one week after it broke. 24hr? Really?

I am not saying HF=Apple by any means (quality wise). But I buy Apple only since. They are here in 2 locations. I can drive pretty much any time and drop my laptop/phone for repair and it will take couple hours to fix or replace. This is huge. This is not about Apple being better than Lenovo, it's about my convenience.

So, right now I have to jump through hoops, call and beg so they take my money but then if I have issue with pump/equipment they most likely going to tell me it's "improper installation" or "misuse" or something else like that. There is plenty of reviews of Quincy pointing to that. And of course I'm not going to hire "licensed" Quincy technician to install that pump. And if I get other "reputable" pump, how are they going to go about warrantly? I know, they will ask me to ship 150lb pump to them for inspection and then they will want me to pay for shipping back to me (if they honor warranty)

Yes, I'm not a business and for home use I just need what I need, not "the best"


My only concern with HF pump is a noise. I do prefer slower spinning quiet pump if possible.

Will take current pump apart and see what I have and then decide.


P.S. I'm not HF fan at all, but $$ and convenience - wise there is no alternative right now. And I don't think HF pump will break with my use.

 

[1Garageman]

^^ Call Quincy and see what they say about replacement parts? See how much you could sell it for online and use that money to buy a brand new air compressor. I know this could be a great air compressor, but that is a long way down the road and a lot of money out of your pocket to get there. And then will you trust the compressor %100 of the time???

 

[katit]

^^ Call Quincy and see what they say about replacement parts? See how much you could sell it for online and use that money to buy a brand new air compressor. I know this could be a great air compressor, but that is a long way down the road and a lot of money out of your pocket to get there. And then will you trust the compressor %100 of the time???

I will call once I have broken one apart. Brand new compressor would be HF $800 compressor anyway. Or maaaybe $1300 compressor.

Do I need to trust compressor 100% of time? Of course not. I'm just using it for hobby. And I have little carry compressor if I need to air tires or run impact wrench.

 

[redmondjp]

As suggested above somewhere, I would go with an ABAC pump such as this T39 which will produce 18-20cfm at 120-150psi with a 5HP motor (roughly, I couldn't find exact specs with a quick search):

http://www.i90enter.com/store-products-T39-T39-Pump_23527292.html

https://www.pacificaircompressors.c...p-abac-american-imc-belaire-compressor-parts/

I would EASILY pay $800 for this pump for your existing compressor, vs. $800 for the HF compressor which has a smaller motor and pump and will be running a lot harder and hotter to get the same output.

 

[Citation]

I tried via website and they point to local distributors. And I didn't get anybody contacting me back. I guess I should call.

I always think about another experience from my life. I work in IT and computer is my main tool. So, I got best Lenovo at a time with 24hr same day service. Guess what? In 2 years it broke and it was on Friday night.
At that time I was working without weekends and needed computer. But 24hr service is business days. So, technician came in on Tue of next week(can't do Monday) and they had to _order_ part which would take a week. I called and argued and they overnighted this part so I had computer running exactly one week after it broke. 24hr? Really?

I am not saying HF=Apple by any means (quality wise). But I buy Apple only since. They are here in 2 locations. I can drive pretty much any time and drop my laptop/phone for repair and it will take couple hours to fix or replace. This is huge. This is not about Apple being better than Lenovo, it's about my convenience.

So, right now I have to jump through hoops, call and beg so they take my money but then if I have issue with pump/equipment they most likely going to tell me it's "improper installation" or "misuse" or something else like that. There is plenty of reviews of Quincy pointing to that. And of course I'm not going to hire "licensed" Quincy technician to install that pump. And if I get other "reputable" pump, how are they going to go about warrantly? I know, they will ask me to ship 150lb pump to them for inspection and then they will want me to pay for shipping back to me (if they honor warranty)

Yes, I'm not a business and for home use I just need what I need, not "the best"


My only concern with HF pump is a noise. I do prefer slower spinning quiet pump if possible.

Will take current pump apart and see what I have and then decide.


P.S. I'm not HF fan at all, but $$ and convenience - wise there is no alternative right now. And I don't think HF pump will break with my use.

Noise wise the 3hp pump was surprisingly good. Not silent but good out of the box. Adding some DIY muffler would likely make it very good.
The 5hp model uses a pair of the same air filters and is a reasonably slow pump. Keep in mind that RMP isn't going to be the best indicator of noise and that most noise comes from the air intakes which can be improved relatively easily. I've posted on my own experience reducing the noise levels of my small, belt drive compressor.

 

[katit]

As suggested above somewhere, I would go with an ABAC pump such as this T39 which will produce 18-20cfm at 120-150psi with a 5HP motor (roughly, I couldn't find exact specs with a quick search):

http://www.i90enter.com/store-products-T39-T39-Pump_23527292.html

https://www.pacificaircompressors.c...p-abac-american-imc-belaire-compressor-parts/

I would EASILY pay $800 for this pump for your existing compressor, vs. $800 for the HF compressor which has a smaller motor and pump and will be running a lot harder and hotter to get the same output.

Those are $1000 pumps when shipped. Which brings it up to 1150 compressor plus labor, plus no warranty. Plus extras for pulleys, etc

I can have Quincy QT54 delivered to my door for $1300

 

[redmondjp]

T39 pump puts out more air for your 5HP than the QT54 will.

http://compressedair.ringpower.com/media/802545/belaire_air_compressor_specifications.pdf

Look at the specifications on page 4 for a 5HP motor driving the T39 pump. You're getting 18.5 ACFM @ 100psi, whereas the QT-54 only puts out 15.4 ACFM @ 90psi.

 

[katit]

How is it possible same pump does more CFM with more HP? More RPMs?

 

[454ragtop]

How is it possible same pump does more CFM with more HP? More RPMs?

Yes, bigger motor allows a bigger motor pulley to turn the pump faster. If I were you I'd get a quality pump and run it with the motor pulley and belt you have now. If you need more air down the road, and the motor is up to it, add a larger pulley and corresponding belt.
Have you checked CL for a used pump or possibly a 3 PH compressor? 3 Ph compressors often sell for less, because most want to convert to single phase, so there is an added expense which scares a lot of people off.

 

[katit]

Yes, there some for sale but I need a way to haul it and later dispose of it. Disposal might be easy bu getting it will be a problem. I had to ask 2 friends to bring truck and help pickup one I have which took couple hours

 

[B_Bimmer]

Take the dang thing apart and show us some carnage photos already, this thread is getting chronically disappointing.

 

[katit]

Take the dang thing apart and show us some carnage photos already, this thread is getting chronically disappointing.

That’s because you didn’t make your suggestion yet.
Right now I’m thinking how exactly I should take it apart. I don’t have a hoist and don’t think I can lift it off myself. Probably going to take head and cylinders off first

 

[fourjeepin]

A buddy of mine has a big 3 phase Quincy sitting in his shop gathering dust. If you find yourself in the Greensboro NC area and are interested, send me a PM and I will send you his info. I took pictures last time I was there and may be able to run them down.

 

[katit]

Just thought it's funny. Here is my "what I must have" compressor sitting on top next to the broken quincy pump.

 

[The Cobbler]

LOL, thats a funny picture

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Case can be tig/torch brazed, crank can probably be flame straightened. It's quite possible that pump could be put back together. It may cost you more than a new one though if you don't have the capability.

If you don't have a way to lift the pump off you either need to hit the gym or hit harbor freight for a 2 ton engine hoist. The second option sounds better to me but YMMV.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Right now I’m thinking how exactly I should take it apart. I don’t have a hoist and don’t think I can lift it off myself. Probably going to take head and cylinders off first

The pump weighs 125 lbs.+/-, pull the flywheel /sheave off which is probably 40 lbs +/-, then you're down to a manageable 85 lbs. You need to pull the flywheel/ sheave anyway, just to be able to sit the pump on a workbench.

 

[Dieselhammer]

For your hobby use as much as i hate to say it, just buy a harbor freight pump. I was given a 30 year old Big Red brand compressor that needed a pump, i bought the harbor freight vertical twin pump, did the calculation for pulley size vs flywheel speed and swapped the electric motor pulley, then ran a shoestring around both pulleys to get an approximate length and ran to Napa to get a V-belt in the right length. I may have had $175 into making the compressor work and it's done 2 paint jobs and a ton of wrenching in the last 3 years at home.

 

[katit]

End of story, I bought this from eBay for $460. Don't know good or bad, but I think it's going to be happy medium

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254310668674?ul_noapp=true

 

[redmondjp]

Cool! Even with shipping, that looks like a great deal. Now let's pray that some ding-dong doesn't drop the thing on its way to you.

Here are the specifications for ABAC pumps including your new T39:

https://www.mastertoolrepair.com/images/Pump and Unit Specs.pdf

Maximum RPM for a 5HP motor is shown as 960, so I'd go with that or a bit less. You can also dial back the on-off pressure range to something like 130-155psi.

 

[katit]

Cool! Even with shipping, that looks like a great deal. Now let's pray that some ding-dong doesn't drop the thing on its way to you.

Here are the specifications for ABAC pumps including your new T39:

https://www.mastertoolrepair.com/images/Pump and Unit Specs.pdf

Maximum RPM for a 5HP motor is shown as 960, so I'd go with that or a bit less. You can also dial back the on-off pressure range to something like 130-155psi.

I asked seller to package well.. Let's hope it works out, there will be insurance as well.

For PSI, why 130-155? Is there rationale behind this? I keep 100 in lines, shouldn't I make it like 110-175?

 

[redmondjp]

I asked seller to package well.. Let's hope it works out, there will be insurance as well.

For PSI, why 130-155? Is there rationale behind this? I keep 100 in lines, shouldn't I make it like 110-175?

Typically your control switch won't let you go with that wide of an on-off range. Most compressor controls have a fixed band of 30psi differential (approximately) which you can adjust up or down with a single adjustment screw.

The higher the pressure, the harder the motor and pump work (and create more heat) and the higher the motor amps. So if you wanted to maximize flow, for example, you could spin the pump a bit faster and get more flow, but at the expense of higher motor current at the maximum pressure. So you could then dial back the maximum pressure so you don't overload the motor.

It's always a good idea to use a clamp-on ammeter to check the motor running current when you set up a new pump on a compressor. You will see a direct relationship between motor amps and the maximum pressure, and typically you don't want to exceed the motor's Full Load Amps (FLA) rating. Motors with a 1.25 service factor will tolerate exceeding the FLA for intermittent periods. It's not that the motor will suddenly fail if you exceed the FLA value; it all comes down to how hot the windings get, which affects the insulation life.

If you stay within the 5HP specs, you shouldn't have any issues running it up to a 175psi shutoff, but having it turn off at 150-160 will keep things a tad bit cooler. Tradeoff is that it will cycle on a bit more often, unless you are using so much air that it runs continuously.

I have my two-stage unit shut off at around 145 or 150 psi. That's the way it came and I have left it that way. I have also worked at a shop that had theirs set up the same way.

Another factor may be your airlines' maximum pressure, but if you are regulating at the compressor that won't matter.

While on this subject, the thing that I am amazed by is the stupid-high shutoff of some single-stage compressors now on the market - 150psi. These pumps start really slowing down above 110 psi, so if I were to own one of those I'd dial that back to 90psi ON and 120psi OFF right away. The motor and pump will run a lot cooler and last much longer.

 

[katit]

Thanks a lot! I will definitely keep it in mind. I will also try to set it on a lower RPM side for pump. I feel like it will be pleeenty for me so why overheat it and make noise.

NOW. To those who asked. Here we go. I took it apart. I didn't like how Quincy put it together. Some bolts miss washers, etc. It feels cheap. Anyways. My guess is that valves failed causing obstruction. Large piston hit it and broke crank. Tnen crank went sideways and broke a block. Doubt that any amount of brazing or whatever will help. The only thing usable is cylinders (after sleeving as there is scratches). And small cylinder valves seem to be OK

If anybody want anything out of this thing - let me know.

PS. Hopefully new pump from 1991 I bought will have better QC.

 

[katit]

Cool! Even with shipping, that looks like a great deal.

Didn't notice this. It's $460 shipped. So, about 1/2 what they being sold elsewhere. Being 1991 I think is a plus.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I retract my previous statement. That thing is scrap.

 

[The Cobbler]

OUCH! on the original compressor
Nice on the new one. good luck with it.

 

[bochnak]

I used a TB woods sheave and pulley:

https://www.tbwoods.com/products/belted-drives/Sheaves-and-V-Belts/Classical-Sheaves-and-V-Belts

Use grainger to find belt PN based on length. Then go order on amazon. Order smaller and larger size and return what you don't need.

Home depot should have 5/8 OD copper tubing. Anything larger is hard to find.

 

[bochnak]

Also, make sure you run through this formula to make sure the pump is working correctly once all together:

 

[katit]

I used a TB woods sheave and pulley:

https://www.tbwoods.com/products/belted-drives/Sheaves-and-V-Belts/Classical-Sheaves-and-V-Belts

Use grainger to find belt PN based on length. Then go order on amazon. Order smaller and larger size and return what you don't need.

Home depot should have 5/8 OD copper tubing. Anything larger is hard to find.

Did you give them dimensions via email? I don't see list of available sizes.
Do I understand correctly I need to replace MOTOR pulley to match with pump pulley and achieve correct RPM on pump?

Also, do I need 2 belts? Current pump has 2 groves but motor has only one and one belt was installed.

Do you know belt "type"? Or should I see what I have on new pump? I was going to ask seller to send me pump pulley dimensions so I can order motor's pulley right away and not wait for pump to come in

 

[bochnak]

Did you give them dimensions via email? I don't see list of available sizes.
Do I understand correctly I need to replace MOTOR pulley to match with pump pulley and achieve correct RPM on pump?

Also, do I need 2 belts? Current pump has 2 groves but motor has only one and one belt was installed.

Do you know belt "type"? Or should I see what I have on new pump? I was going to ask seller to send me pump pulley dimensions so I can order motor's pulley right away and not wait for pump to come in

Start by measuring the shaft diameter of your motor. Also RPM.

T39 manual shows fly OD is 15" and section A belts. Also states 700 to 1400 RPM. I'm guessing you need to run it at 700 RPM with a 5hp motor.

 

[katit]

Start by measuring the shaft diameter of your motor. Also RPM.

Belt is probably "B" section and why not run 2???

I made some digging. According to eBay listing (from document scan attached) compressor have run 700-1400 RPM, it's got 15 inch flywheel and 2 type "A" belts.

Motor I have is 1725RPM

If I want to run 700RPM - I need 6in pulley on motor. For 1400RPM I need 12in pulley.

I think I will check first what size/type pulley I have on my motor..

Any suggestion for oil? It says 20 or 30w non-detergent compressor oil, 47Oz

 

[454ragtop]

I'd put it together with the pulley and belt you have now and try it. Can always swap it out later if necessary.

 

[The Cobbler]

here is a good online calculator for pulley rpms https://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng.aspx

 

[rsanter]

On that old pump I think I would save the rods and cylinder to make something out of and then junk the rest