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Bought my first Tig

Joe69

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Sep 6, 2009
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Muncie, Indiana
I finally pulled the trigger on a tig welder last Friday. It's a Miller Diversion 180.

Now I'm working on building a cart for it.

Joe

907460_Diversion_180_Package.png
 
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superspec

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Congrats, I just got my 180 last week. Reading the book and manual now. If you haven't found out yet your torch doesn't come with tungsten. For me that means I'm screwed until Monday.
 

farmall400

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I'm going to pull the trigger on one of these on Monday. How do you like it? Cheapest I can find is $1820 shipped from an ebay seller.
 

superspec

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i went to my local shop and they sold me mine for 1850 plus they gave a t bottle full of argon, a sleeve of SS filler, a sleeve of mild steel filler and a sleeve of aluminum filler. and 2 pair of tillman glooves. i also bought a plasma cutter that same day so that may have helped with the freebees.
 

srmofo

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Ive got diversion 165 and love it. I also built a cart for it you make like. It has a shelf for the pedal and stores both my welders.

Ive modified it a little bit since this pic but it works well
 

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ZRX61

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i went to my local shop and they sold me mine for 1850 plus they gave a t bottle full of argon, a sleeve of SS filler, a sleeve of mild steel filler and a sleeve of aluminum filler. and 2 pair of tillman glooves. i also bought a plasma cutter that same day so that may have helped with the freebees.
Thats about the best deal listed so far.
 

IndyGarage

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I also have had a 165 for about 2 years. They do have high frequency, but no pulser, or balance adjustment or pre and post adjustment.

When I first got it, all I could do with it was blow holes in metal. Now I can lay down a bean that I can trust to not break. They aren't as pretty as I'd like yet, but they are functional. I do a lot of odd job repair work with it.
 

farmall400

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Mar 18, 2012
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Yeah I tried my local airgas, they were about 250 more out the door and it didn't seem like they would budge. It also seemed like the guy felt I was wasting his time with my questions. That's why I plan on buying mine online.
 

superspec

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one of the biggest reasons for me to buy locally was #1 i will be seeing those people a lot for my consumables but also when and if i need warranty work done my shop is a miller warranty/repair center. my rig never leaves their shop. if i bought from another shop in town and had a problem i would have to return it to that shop and they ship it 6 hours away and that may take weeks to get back...something i wont be able to afford.

in short the repair part was what sealed the deal, then they laid down a price that i couldnt refuse.

i walked in knowing what i could get one for online and laid that out on the table up front then explained that i dont have a problem paying more locally but nothing like full retail and that i was shopping all of the places in the area. the salesman shot me a straight answer with he sales at 15% above cost and had no problem showing me his numbers. when he showed me that they were a warranty/repair center i was sold.

walk in with a wad of cash and shoot the **** for a bit, i bet their attitude changes when money is seen. that always seems to work for me because i dont look the part when i walk in. i look to young to mess with anything like this plus i dont dress the part of a "welder".

ill stop rambling now but that is how i bought mine.
 

Bar Ditch

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Mar 10, 2012
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Tacoma
Joe I have the same machine and love it! You can't beat the quality of work that can be done with this bad boy. It works great on thin wall aluminum but strong enough for decent size steel work.:rocker:
 

MFGENG

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Jul 21, 2011
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79
I bought my 180 last year and love it. I got it from CyberWeld.com, good prices and fast shipping. The only thing I wish I could change was post flow time. I did get a new torch body for it as the stock one is very bulky.
 

dragginbalz

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Sep 19, 2005
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I wish more people knew how low of a margin we actually make on the machines. Machine sales definitely don't pay the bills. :)

Although I don't agree with purchasing online (obviously I am biased) I do understand why it is a necessary evil, but please don't think that your supplier is screwing you because he is $100 more than Cyberweld and has to charge you sales tax.

Personally, we can't work much on the price of the machine, but gas pricing, consumables, etc, those are a bit easier to discount. Don't forget either, purchasing a machine may also get you lower pricing for FUTURE consumable purchased. You will purchase that machine once, maybe in your lifetime, but you will purchasing gas, wire, tips, gloves, etc for years. We have a tendency to remember and reward friendly, repeat customers.

:)
 

superspec

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I wish more people knew how low of a margin we actually make on the machines. Machine sales definitely don't pay the bills. :)

Although I don't agree with purchasing online (obviously I am biased) I do understand why it is a necessary evil, but please don't think that your supplier is screwing you because he is $100 more than Cyberweld and has to charge you sales tax.

Personally, we can't work much on the price of the machine, but gas pricing, consumables, etc, those are a bit easier to discount. Don't forget either, purchasing a machine may also get you lower pricing for FUTURE consumable purchased. You will purchase that machine once, maybe in your lifetime, but you will purchasing gas, wire, tips, gloves, etc for years. We have a tendency to remember and reward friendly, repeat customers.

:)


all taken into account when i bought mine. i did how ever forget about sales tax and that was a shock on a $4000 order.
 
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fflintstone

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MOFnowhere Mi.
I wish more people knew how low of a margin we actually make on the machines. Machine sales definitely don't pay the bills. :)

Although I don't agree with purchasing online (obviously I am biased) I do understand why it is a necessary evil, but please don't think that your supplier is screwing you because he is $100 more than Cyberweld and has to charge you sales tax.

Personally, we can't work much on the price of the machine, but gas pricing, consumables, etc, those are a bit easier to discount. Don't forget either, purchasing a machine may also get you lower pricing for FUTURE consumable purchased. You will purchase that machine once, maybe in your lifetime, but you will purchasing gas, wire, tips, gloves, etc for years. We have a tendency to remember and reward friendly, repeat customers.

:)

One of the many advantages of taking welding classes at Lincoln electric is that you can then purchase any machine at dealer cost plus local sales tax.

Sales tax is a big chunk of change on a big machine. LWS do not make much on the sale of the machine for sure. While I bought a huge machine, after sales tax my total savings over buying online at Harris welding was only around $300 if that.
 

Gamble

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CHITOWN
I paid just over 1800 for my diversion 180 and that was after days of price matching stores to other stores. All I got with it was free welding rod (1 pound, better than nothing)
This was almost 2 years ago. It's a fantastic machine! It really is. Performs great, and no issues at all.
My issue with it was the lack of features so I found ways to learn and work around it. However one of the biggest advantage to it is the lack of features if that makes sense.
Power on -> Set amperage -> pic ac or dc -> weld. Done! IT doesn't get more simple than that!

Also contact Jeff at www.usaweld.com (HTP) and ask about upgrading the torch. There is a custom fitting needed that someone makes and HTP sells a kit with this fitting and super flex cable and ck9 torch. Makes it MUCH easier to weld with. Smaller torch, easy to move cable. It's almost a MUST do if you have the hobart 165, diversion 165, or 180.
 

ckpitt55

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PA
I paid just over 1800 for my diversion 180 and that was after days of price matching stores to other stores. All I got with it was free welding rod (1 pound, better than nothing)
This was almost 2 years ago. It's a fantastic machine! It really is. Performs great, and no issues at all.
My issue with it was the lack of features so I found ways to learn and work around it. However one of the biggest advantage to it is the lack of features if that makes sense.
Power on -> Set amperage -> pic ac or dc -> weld. Done! IT doesn't get more simple than that!

Also contact Jeff at www.usaweld.com (HTP) and ask about upgrading the torch. There is a custom fitting needed that someone makes and HTP sells a kit with this fitting and super flex cable and ck9 torch. Makes it MUCH easier to weld with. Smaller torch, easy to move cable. It's almost a MUST do if you have the hobart 165, diversion 165, or 180.

that's what's keeping me from buying one. with tig's, seems like you have 3 things to choose from: features, reliability, and affordability. You can only pick two. For this welder those choices seem to be reliability and affordability at the detriment of features.

I've never tig'd before, but have done enough research to see that having ac balance, a pulser, pre and post flow would absolutely come in handy. especially in a home / shop environment where not everything is always ideal. that's the whole point of having a tig, imo - versatility. and the fact that you can't do a simple thing like switching lines and torches without a custom adapter is like a punch in the balls. the engineers could have just as easily used the universal adapters. by no means am i bashing anyone's decision to buy one, i'm sure they're nice machines. those few things kind of irk me though.
 
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Gamble

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In my opinion all hose features get in the way of learning.
Have you looked at the htp 221?
 

ckpitt55

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In my opinion all hose features get in the way of learning.
Have you looked at the htp 221?

That may be true, but to me the extra seat time is worth it for something that I won't be looking to replace once I get past the learning curve.

I have looked at the htp welders - kinda more than I'd like to pay. Any reason to go with one of those over something like an everlast tig? I was considering a powerpro 205 or 256 since it'd be nice to have the ability to plasma cut as well. From what I've read they don't seem to be having the quality issues they were 2-3 years ago. Where is the HTP made?

I see you have a longevity...how do you like it?
 
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Gamble

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Oct 12, 2011
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CHITOWN
Everyone I've heard that gets an everlast they show up not working.
HTP is basically the top welder, up there with the miller dynasty 200dx. Htp is made in italy.

I LOVE my longevity stuff. It welds just as good as my miller did. In fact so well I sold the miller since the longevity has more features and saved me $1k!
 
OP
J

Joe69

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Sep 6, 2009
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Muncie, Indiana
I wish more people knew how low of a margin we actually make on the machines. Machine sales definitely don't pay the bills. :)

Although I don't agree with purchasing online (obviously I am biased) I do understand why it is a necessary evil, but please don't think that your supplier is screwing you because he is $100 more than Cyberweld and has to charge you sales tax.

Personally, we can't work much on the price of the machine, but gas pricing, consumables, etc, those are a bit easier to discount. Don't forget either, purchasing a machine may also get you lower pricing for FUTURE consumable purchased. You will purchase that machine once, maybe in your lifetime, but you will purchasing gas, wire, tips, gloves, etc for years. We have a tendency to remember and reward friendly, repeat customers.

:)

I also bought oxy/actylene cylinders at the same time (that's why I was there), they gave me a break on those, and a free fill-up.

Joe
 

sberry

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Thisis a good thread with some good experience, good stuff about dealers too. I think well of the way some dealers did in the past. I could go in and point to it and know he would price it right, back in the day there were not the options, there were local business with large orders that went out of town but the local Linc dealer was a hands on vendor, he ran a pretty tidy ship, I wasnt always a pooster child of a customer but once I got going I bought a quite a bit of stuff, had companies I worked for shop with him. He was good on gas prices and grinding wheels, actually sold a huge amount of stuff that most people never saw to industry and the pricing structure followed over at the store for the most part.

When this business sold it was gobbled up, you got to price every item, this is from guys that worked here back in the day still there. I can tell when people are doddering off, I love to get an older salesman that asks me more than,,, is that it, can figure out I need to browes a minute, I make it a point to work with them when they are not screaming busy but I went to outfit a while back, I was passing thru at the end of the day 4 or so swing in with my full service truck and salesman, was the head outside account dude is doddering off shooting the bs, he was stupid for not stopping what t F he was doing and made effort to say hi, nice truck, heavy duty. If I didnt want to be bothered ok, but I would have had a cup of coffee for the man flat out, my job is to sell etcha.

That salesman wasted all his plants effort and the counter man didnt help, I could have bought at Lowes a few minutes later easier and cheaper. Some dealers do not deal with walk in customers so well, they miss it. They need to get enough stock and list the pricing instead of tier sales games, I will agree ther is not room in margins on machine sales.

A company that should be in welding sales is Tractor Supply. It should have a division like JC Penny is doing, the store idea is a great niche but its not personel but their manegement *****. Their execution *****. Its pitiful, their niche saves them by the short hairs.

Maybe I could be wrong, maybe someone figured out it is really easier to let things flow along and do ok vs getting real involved and take a chance on messing something up? There is something to be said for things are going ok and we got it pretty easy but other farm stores open bu8t one of them should spring right up with a welding division with Hobart as a feature right on the front of the store in the space next to the TSC sign. On the other side should say Carhart. There is a lot of money in the other stuff but the infrastructure is in placeto make welding a real draw at fairly low cost compared to opening a welding store on its own. They need a trained staff specialist, video kiosk etc. I see some stores stocked with the preference to some part timers "favorite" rod.

The list is long there ha. I love how Lowes and HD work, no game, price is right there and on line, beautiful for treated lumber shopping, always specials, bought some I had to cut off cheaper ha. For the home types not worth the effort to sourcemuch of anything elsewhere, buy a breaker or 10, not have to go to each dealer, shopping used to be painful, pitiful, local business gouged lot of stuff. Paid some outragous price for a laundry tub back in the day, had to order it, now 15 dollars, they got a whole stack.

No one is getting screwed on a Kobalt wrench, there is some marginal differences in product pricing between the big 3 but not at extreme margins on "commodity" items, even big electric contractors buy lots of wire from Home Depot, dont have to stock, ship etc.
 

IndyGarage

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In my opinion all hose features get in the way of learning.
Have you looked at the htp 221?

Before I bought mine I did a little research as to how many folks actually use those features.

It seems like most don't even mess around with the balance much, and the other stuff not at all.

I've welded back to back with my 165 Tig and a Dynasty 200 and they weld pretty much the same. The Dynasty seemed to start "hotter", but other than that you couldn't tell much difference.

The other thing people seem to be down on the Diversion for is the duty cycle. I've never had mine shut down due to duty cycle. A few weeks ago I used it all day on a furniture project made from aluminum 3/4 inch square tube and it never flinched.
 

sberry

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There is a difference in the Diversion and the Dynasty but one pays for it and in most cases either is ok. Ifg I was hanging my shingle out on a steady diet of alum repair work would up for the dyn, for general have some capability type work the div is fine. I could do the work I do with one.
 

dragginbalz

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There is a difference in the Diversion and the Dynasty but one pays for it and in most cases either is ok. Ifg I was hanging my shingle out on a steady diet of alum repair work would up for the dyn, for general have some capability type work the div is fine. I could do the work I do with one.

I agree. Aluminum is really where the Dynasty's shine. Being able to adjust the frequency, balance and wave shape are all really beneficial features on the AC side.

If you are just welding steel, stainless and Chromoly, the Diversion has a really nice arc and there probably isn't a major benefit to purchase the Dynasty, as long as you aren't exceeding the duty cycle or welding a lot of thin SS and need the pulser to keep heat/warpage down.

I welded with the HTP Invertig 200 a while back. It welded really well and was comparable to a Dynasty 200DX for about $1500 less. Other than having a slightly more confusing panel, it was a nice machine.
 

farmall400

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Well I ended up going to a different airgas location today and was able to get a good deal on the diversion 180. I got the welder for $1843 and he hooked me up with some good deals on tungsten and filler. I also leased a 125 cf tank for 40 bucks and filled for half price. Not sure how much the price was to fill as I put the tank and fill on my works account. Lol. Spent some time playing with it this afternoon and I am very happy with the purchase.
 

IndyGarage

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I bought my Diversion 165 before the 180's came out, but I'm not sure why you would buy the 180 over the 165.


The 180 costs about $500 more than the 165 and I can find 3 features different:

The pedal is worth an extra $150 and is a useful feature. Digital display is not worth anything to me. They put an optional 110v plug on the 180, but I'm pretty sure the 165 would run on 110v too, although I haven't tried it.

If you look at the charts, you can tell the electronics of the 2 are identical, except the 180 is allowed to go up to the higher amps.
 

dragginbalz

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I bought my Diversion 165 before the 180's came out, but I'm not sure why you would buy the 180 over the 165.


The 180 costs about $500 more than the 165 and I can find 3 features different:

The pedal is worth an extra $150 and is a useful feature. Digital display is not worth anything to me. They put an optional 110v plug on the 180, but I'm pretty sure the 165 would run on 110v too, although I haven't tried it.

If you look at the charts, you can tell the electronics of the 2 are identical, except the 180 is allowed to go up to the higher amps.

The 165 will only run on 230V input. If you decide to try it on 110V, let us know how that works out!

When people ask, I tell them the same thing. They get a foot control included but the main reason is the difference is the ability to run on 110V and 230V. I agree on that machine the digital display is not necessary and the 15 amps is not worth mentioning, just added bonuses to the dual voltage input.

Having the option to bring it to a location that does not have 220V power, maybe your friend's garage, is an important feature for quite a few people. The MM211 is very popular for the same reason. So when you break it down, $350.00 to be able to open up where you can use it ($500 - $150 foot control), that is worth it for some.
 

Gamble

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The hobart 165 is the same as the diversion 165, except it comes with a foot pedal.
 

hh76

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Nov 9, 2010
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NE Wisconsin
I wish more people knew how low of a margin we actually make on the machines. Machine sales definitely don't pay the bills. :)

Although I don't agree with purchasing online (obviously I am biased) I do understand why it is a necessary evil, but please don't think that your supplier is screwing you because he is $100 more than Cyberweld and has to charge you sales tax.

Personally, we can't work much on the price of the machine, but gas pricing, consumables, etc, those are a bit easier to discount. Don't forget either, purchasing a machine may also get you lower pricing for FUTURE consumable purchased. You will purchase that machine once, maybe in your lifetime, but you will purchasing gas, wire, tips, gloves, etc for years. We have a tendency to remember and reward friendly, repeat customers.

:)

This definately seemed true for me. I bought a machine from a local shop, and have had nothing but great things to say about the service since. I went back for a few things a couple weeks later, and they gave me about $40 worth of stuff for free, saying that it was normally set aside for demonstration, so they wouldn't miss it in the accounting. They even sent me in the back to have their service guy demonstrate a few things when I had questions.
 
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